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In denial

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Bigger posted 4/18/2018 11:39 AM

If this was a war-movie and you were the rookie 97 pound underage private in boot camp then I would be the drill-sergeant pulling you behind the barracks to give you an ass-whipping. All because I careÖ

Why am I only reading excuses and reasons for inaction in your posts?
Do you enjoy being where you are?
Do you want your marriage dead?

Not sure if heís still married? Be sure. Find out.
Even if he is divorced or divorcing then phone his ex or soon-to-be ex.
Maybe they divorced because she found him with your wife.

Long time since this happened? All the more reason to call. Change the phrase ďthe other dayĒ to ďsome time agoĒ.

Action LimboÖ. Action.

Limbo79 posted 4/18/2018 16:05 PM

My hesitation in divorce is not because of my children as I will always love them and I know kids adapt. Theyíll probably be happier if Iím happier, and not the loss of my wife as I lost her ages ago, but the loss of my home. Iíve saved and worked and sacrificed years living in a tiny cabin in a boat so we could afford to buy our farm. There is no way I will be able to afford something like this again.
Sure Iíve had to be away working to afford it but i certainly wonít be able to afford it again.
Iím sure I will be happy without the land and I will definitely have more free time.
Perhaps when weíve sold it Iíll realise what a burden itís been.
Anyway Ive got my appointment booked with the lawyer and the next stage is started.

Limbo79 posted 4/18/2018 16:12 PM

But your right Bigger talking writing letters no effect. Gave her the letter this morning. Nothing. she didnít talk much today , didnít even mention it. She did however have a very sour face like she had just tasted a turd. I felt I had to try maybe Iím wrong or weak but I had to try. Probably more chance of winning the lottery.
Going to buy a ticket tomorrow.

MrMagnolia posted 4/18/2018 16:32 PM

You might be able to afford the farm again someday but maybe not. There's no way to know for sure. It's okay to mourn that loss, when the time comes, but right now I think it's time to listen to Bigger.

You need to file for D. What are you doing right now?

Have you read the 180?

[This message edited by MrMagnolia at 4:33 PM, April 18th (Wednesday)]

sassylee posted 4/18/2018 16:36 PM

Are you afraid to call the wife of the swimdad? Biggerís script is spot on. Just pick up the phone. Follow the script. See if she can confirm your suspicions.

MrMagnolia posted 4/18/2018 16:40 PM



Limbo79 posted 4/18/2018 17:02 PM

I could find out who is. I was under the impression that he was divorced. But I donít know him. My son no longer swims.
But I feel my problem is with my wife not with some stranger. Yes he shouldnt hit on married woman. Did she tell him to start Iím not sure. She hasnít been wearing her wedding ring for a while.
But my wife should not have hidden her meeting up with him from me.
I will try to find out the swim dads wifeís name and call her. If heís married.

Smillie posted 4/19/2018 03:45 AM

Your whole approach is too wishy washy. Do you want her to love you or pity you? I just donít get what your game plan is. It seems to me you are desperate to rugsweep the whole thing. She doesít respect you enough to give you a confession. You really need to be a bit more selfish and stop worrying about things so much.

You should get away from infidelity and abuse, they are very damaging things. Being a punchbag is not a good example to set for your children.

[This message edited by Smillie at 4:30 AM, April 19th (Thursday)]

Limbo79 posted 4/19/2018 07:45 AM

Seeing lawyer next week having the has valued also. Both on the same day.

Wool94 posted 4/19/2018 07:59 AM

I could find out who is. I was under the impression that he was divorced. But I donít know him. My son no longer swims.†
But I feel my problem is with my wife not with some stranger.

I also saw where you said you would try to find out if he's married and contact his wife. That's good, but, you aren't doing this for revenge, or at least I hope not. You are finding the wife, because it's the right thing to do.

She may not know what her H is doing. She is an innocent victim, just as you are. She deserves the right to know, just as I hope you would want to know.

Smillie posted 4/19/2018 08:08 AM

ďSeeing lawyer next week having the has valued also. Both on the same day.Ē

Thatís great. You are preparing to exit this marriage. That is exactly what you need to do. Look after yourself and your kids. That is all that matters. If somehow she does a u-turn, throws herself at your mercy and confesses all, then you can reconsider. That is unlikely and you definitely should not bank on that happening.

I also agree to telling the other guyís wife. He shouldnít be messing around behind her back. He is risking passing on an infection to her and that is not fair.

Bigger posted 4/20/2018 10:10 AM


Please bear with me because this is probably long-wordedÖ Started this yesterday but put it aside.

You are doing what is a very common problem (IM (not so humble) O).
You are dropping hints to your WW and expecting HER to dig the both of you out of infidelity or to fix the marriage.

This wonít work and there are numerous reasons why. The main ones being that what you see as problems and what she sees are problems are not the same things. When you leave the snow-shovel leaning against the front-door as a hint she should maybe clear the driveway sheís not thinking the snow is a problem Ė sheís thinking that you leaving stuff around is a problem.
The other problem is that Ė if I stick to my snow-in-the-driveway comparison Ė you need to get out NOW. She doesnít have the same destination. She enjoys the snow. She enjoys staying warm and toasty inside and ignoring the three-foot deep snow outside keeping you both stuck. You are stuck inside Ė she is happy inside.

If you want out Limbo Ė and I am NOT saying out of the marriage Ė If you want out of infidelity Limbo then YOU are going to have to do some shoveling.
Itís not that you need to clear the driveway for her. You need to start shoveling and Ė if she wants to Ė she follows. But if she doesnít then at least YOU get away before the driveway gets snowed in again.

I have been around for a long timeÖ Some say too long. Probably correct on that but stillÖ here I am. I have seen too many BS sink with the ship. BS that think that by sleeping on the couch for a week, sending hints, asking for change but not following it throughÖ BS that donít act and eventually sink emotionally and physically with the wreck of the marriage they were trying to save.
I have also seen maybe a larger number of BS jump off the boat and start swimming. Maybe without researching how big the hole in the ship is, or without checking if they might be better off on a lifeboat or even without researching the destination to land.

Limbo Ė If you have reached a stage where you are willing to get the house appraised and info on divorce from an attorney then how come you havenít reached the stage where you are willing to force the issue?

In military officer training, there is immense emphasis placed on reconnaissance Ė evaluation Ė planning and implementing. Followed by reconnaissance Ė reevaluation Ė planning and implementing. Basically, they expect a platoon-leader to gather the information he needs to create a reasonable plan. Once the plan is in place the leader implements the plan. That implementation creates a reaction, sometimes the reaction the leader expected and planned for, sometimes not. The leader then takes the information gathered from the reaction, evaluates a new plan (or carries on with the old one) and implements. He does this again and again Ė always adjusting his plan to reach his goal.
What the instructors are looking for are the guys that either donít implement or stick to the plan no matter what. They are looking for inability to plan and implement (limboÖ) and stupidity (carrying on no matter what).

My suggestion on talking to the OM wife? Still valid irrespective of them being married or some time since or whatever. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Iím also going to suggest a very direct approach to your wife. One that isnít based on dropping hints or expecting her to initiate the first steps, but rather one where YOU take the steps and evaluate your next step based on HER actions.

Tell your wife the truth: This marriage the way it is NOW is not what you want.
Tell her that her actions in the past years make you strongly suggest sheís having one or more affairs. Mention OM and the forest. Mention all the other things. But donít dwell there.
Tell her that marriages can survive anything. But only if they work on a basis of truth and honesty.
You would be willing to do a lot of work to save the marriage and create something you would feel good about growing old in. But it canít be one-sided and if she isnít willing to come along then maybe the correct thing to do would be to divorce.

Tell her that NOW is the time to decide. NOW is the time for the truth to come out and that what is told NOW and in the next few days is what will determine if you think the marriage can be saved.

BUTÖ. ALSO tell her you are not waiting for an answer. You have been in limbo too long. Until she commits clearly and unequivocally to working on the marriage you are simply assuming itís over. You are initiating the steps to end your marriage. Itís a process and takes time, but you want her to know where you stand and that if there is no change you two can finish the D process in 3-6 months.

This is a plan. It might cause a reaction and you then adjust your plan according to the info you get and the reaction. But you keep momentum. The end-goal isnít divorce, nor is it reconciliation. Either one of those two is fine. But the end goal is simply to break out of what you have been offered so far.

And then you grab that shovel and go to work. How fast and how much is totally up to you. But itís NOT up to her. You are acting Ė not reacting.

If she tells you OK Ė letís work on the marriage Ė then YOU get MC lined up.
If she says nothing then YOU keep on towards D.
If she says fine, I want out too then you keep on towards D.

Limbo Ė whatever the above leads to itís better than what you have been offered the past few years.

Action LimboÖ. Action.

Limbo79 posted 4/20/2018 18:31 PM

Thanks Bigger

Iíve hopefully done some of the things youíve mentioned. I wrote a letter to my w as I wanted to make sure I stayed on topic and mentioned all the points that bothered me. She couldnít start an argument and then I wouldnít finish. I started with the guy in the woods and finished with the most recent thing which is the separate bedrooms. I pointed out the the lies the and 1/2 truths. The condom and how the story changed as I pointed out the lies in her original story. I mentioned the dating app. I said that 1 thing on its own could be explained as a coincidence but that there were to many coincidences to be a coincidence. I said that I was unwilling to carry on like this. That I was not happy in the relationship and that I needed more. I needed to be with someone who wanted to be with me. Not in the spare bedroom.
I said that the next step would be divorce unless she could talk and speak the truth.
However I am not waiting for as Iím sure she will drag her feet while she tries to invent stories maybe with a little truth in them.
I am getting the house valued and will find out what we need to do to sell it, I am meeting with a lawyer to see what the next step is.
I have also met with my friend whoís wife was cheating on him and told him the story that my wife used saying that the condom was for his wife. I wanted him to know what I knew. He is getting divorced. I told him about the texts I had found from his wife to mine talking about her new guy.
I havenít told my wife about the valuation yet or the lawyer. Iíll wait as I donít want her to call and cancel it. Depending on what happens or is said Iíll tell closer to the day. But I think after is better.
I am happy to listen if my w wants to talk. But only if itís the truth. Itís the things I donít want to hear she has to tell. Not the things she thinks I want to hear.
Anyway I hoping Iím heading the right direction.

Limbo79 posted 4/24/2018 00:56 AM

So far the reaction to my letter by my WW, avoidance overdrive. She is making sure that we are not alone together to avoid me saying anything. Not much left to say really.
The only change is that she has altered her whatsapp privacy settings so that I canít see when she has been on or if sheís received my messages.
That hardly seems like someone trying to be more open. That happened when she went out for the day with my friends ww ( soon to be divorced).
Iím know theyíve been talking about my letter which is a shame as it was a personal letter to my ww not a letter to her and her divorced friends. I asked her to please keep it private as knowing she had already discussed with a friend and she lied a said she would keep it private.
Thursday still a big day meeting with lawyer and house valuation.
I donít understand she is still talking like nothing is happening or going to change. Itís as youíve all said she just thinks Iím talking and it will all blow over as before.
Well not this time.

Smillie posted 4/24/2018 02:38 AM

I think it is time to implement the ď180Ē. Talking and letters clearly are not working. Donít give her any more warnings. It is time to take decisive action .... shock and awe.

DarkHoleHeart posted 4/24/2018 04:58 AM

The only change is that she has altered her whatsapp privacy settings so that I canít see when she has been on or if sheís received my messages
There's your answer.
I donít understand she is still talking like nothing is happening or going to change
Because she is used to "nothing happening" no matter what she does.
It is time to go nuclear. It is possible that once you do that she might appear to start doing some small things towards honesty, etc. Do not confuse that with real remorse - she will be just testing boundaries, the minimum she can do to keep you where you are. Real remorse is when WS goes all out on saving relationship.

Limbo79 posted 4/24/2018 05:48 AM

No, words arenít working. Talked this morning at work, only place I could catch her. I asked her about the letter etc. She started angry and attacking but calmed down when she saw she wasnít getting any reaction from me.
I know Iím going backwards with the talking or at least nor forwards.
She tried to explain away my points in the letter. I should say brush away. She just has always had male friends, no idea about any dating app, condom was a joke for a friend. Blah blah blah.
I know Iím a fool for hoping sheíll all of a sudden decide to be honest.
I said we need to talk again tonight ( I can here you all laughing at me in the background) but Iím not letting the pressure off or believing any stories.
Also going ahead with the D prep. Valuation and lawyer meeting.
Maybe Iím a soft touch or just donít understand where our live went.
She even said she would move back in our room and change her settings and have sex, but changed when I didnít fall for that. I will continue to talk but the questions remain the same. I will continue to move forward and look out for myself and my children. I will not stay in a loveless marriage full of lies and deception. I need love, truth, and respect.
I donít enjoy living being suspicious all the time I hate actually.

Smillie posted 4/24/2018 06:12 AM

I get the feeling you really want to save this marriage. If that is going to happen there needs to be a major power shift. Your wife is not going to give you that easily. You might very well have to divorce. You could maybe consult with a few marriage counsellors and find one who is not just going to side with your wife. You can use the counsellor for both reconciliation and for an amicable divorce.

It is quite clear that your wife should not be having male friends who are not friends of your marriage.

[This message edited by Smillie at 6:13 AM, April 24th (Tuesday)]

DarkHoleHeart posted 4/24/2018 06:37 AM

I said we need to talk again tonight ( I can here you all laughing at me in the background) but Iím not letting the pressure off or believing any stories.
We aren't laughing. Because at least to part of us that's our life being played out in front of us again. And it hurts, believe me, it hurts.
Suggestion. Evening comes and you begin "to talk". The only thing you say - "I just realized there's nothing I want to talk with you about". And then just walk away. There's a high probability that now she suddenly wants to talk. Just repeat what you said, do not allow to be baited into your "usual" conversation again. Read about 180 and implement it.

Stevesn posted 4/24/2018 06:38 AM

You are doing the right things by moving forward with the lawyer and Home valuation.

When you meet with the lawyer ask him to draw up papers to be served at your command. That way youíll be ready when the time comes in your mind.

You are right. You not only deserve more than a loveless marriage, you deserve to know the truth about what she has done.

Tell her any attempt at reconciliation begins with her delivering a full timeline of what she has done. You want names and dates and confession of physical interactions. And let her know she will be taking a polygraph against the truthfulness of her statements.

Let her know that you are prepared to end the marriage if she is not willing to tell you the full extent of her cheating. And Let her know that since she has shown that you are not the one she truly loves, she will be free to go pursue the one she does.

Please stay strong. Itís the only way to get a true R, or to go find happiness with someone else thru D.

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