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In denial

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MrMagnolia posted 4/15/2018 19:50 PM

The thing is Limbo you can't control anything she does. IMO all you can do at this point is tell her you've put up with more than enough and show her how serious you are by following the 180 and filing for D. If that doesn't shock her out of it I don't know what will. It's possible she does take this as a wakeup call and turns her life around but you can't count on it. All you can do is be the best version of yourself you can be and don't let her see you sweat (unless she takes steps towards R).

The situation with your job/employment opportunities puts you in a tough spot. It's unfair again to you (but i'm sure she'll play the victim) because you aren't the one who chose to cheat or chose to pull out support for a sick spouse. That really makes my blood boil just thinking about it. You deserve better.

Have you spoken with friends about job opportunities in your area? It sounds like you have been part owner of several businesses right? It's possible someone else is looking for help with running their business (partner, manager, consultant) and you won't know until you ask around.

On losing your retirement plan. It hurts I'm sure. But I don't think you want to retire with someone who treats you the way she's been treating you. I mean it's your perspective that matters most of course but it sounds to me like she's already torpedoed your retirement plans with her actions. I think your wife just doesn't want to look like the bad guy so she's setting it up to look like it's all your fault when things go south.

The way I see it is that you sound and seem to be telling you are Unhappy. To change this I think your wife has to change (not up to you) who she is and come clean about her behavior. The best chance at her waking up and deciding she wants to do that would be that you do the 180. The 180 will show her you will survive without her and in the event, she doesn't wake up? Well, you'll be able to survive without her.

MrMagnolia posted 4/15/2018 19:53 PM

She would have to be straight and honest even about the little things. I donít hold much hope out that she would be able to confess

I don't think you can have honesty and the things you hope for if she doesn't confess. You won't know until you know I suppose.

I'm sorry for all your going through. It sounds like you have a good plan and I think you are doing really well with all of this.

Limbo79 posted 4/16/2018 01:48 AM

Yes of Iím unhappy who could be happy in a marriage like this. I canít see how she is happy either. But maybe she is not sure what she wants now. I think while i was working away she was happier. She could have her fun when she wanted no one there to check up on her until her parents moved in with us part time. She has fallen out with them now. And they have moved in to an annex.
She had the security of a husband working and supporting her to fall back on. She could play single and married at the same time. But I think she felt guilty sometimes and took that out on me.
Our main Business is a restaurant that we set up years ago. I canít imagine that we we will be able to run it together after a divorce, so we will have to sell it. We also run another tiny home business. Which we would like to expand.
I think Iíll find work somewhere. Iíve travelled around the world and have found if you want to work there is work. Maybe not the best job but work.
I donít understand how she can talk about the future of these business with all that has been going on between us. She talks about investment and borrowing money. It just perplexes me? We donít even sleep in the same room?
I wonder if this is all gaslighting? Trying to keep me guessing making me thinking things can be ok. So she can do what she wants.

MrMagnolia posted 4/16/2018 01:54 AM

My guess would be that she probably thinks you'll stick around no matter what. It may be she hasn't even considered the possibility that you're might divorce her.

I mean what does she say when you point out that things haven't been very good between the two of you? Does she just avoid the issue? Get angry?

Limbo79 posted 4/16/2018 02:04 AM

You are right the only possible way forward involves a total confession. Which sadly I donít think is possible for her. I know it wouldnít be easy as she blames me for it all.
Iíve been preparing a letter for her to go with the divorce papers. Partly to help me but also so it is as clear as possible what the problems are. It helps me as there is so much churning around in my head.
It is interesting how similar the bsís actions are reading these forums. And the arrogance.
Circumstances and genders may be different but the actions and manners so similar.

MrMagnolia posted 4/16/2018 02:10 AM

I'm not understanding the arrogance of the BS (though it's something I'm accused of often enough :)) did you mean the WS?

Yes, it's crazy how different the circumstances are but on both side really the behavior is so damn similar it's like reading from a book.

Limbo79 posted 4/16/2018 02:23 AM

I also know from listening on the camera that she has talked of separation with her friends. This all started when I came back after leaving my job abroad. Not being able to have her cake anymore maybe.
So I really think the chance of a confession is slim. She was happy when I sent money home. But Iíve taken that away now. Iíve narrowed down her choices.

MrMagnolia posted 4/16/2018 03:13 AM

It looks that way :( Have you thought of leaving surveillance devices elsewhere around your house?

Tracking her car?

Limbo79 posted 4/16/2018 04:42 AM

Yes WS not bs but itís a load of bs. At least I can still see the funny side.
Iím not up to date with all the lingo and abbreviations. This is a very busy forum full of people who wish they didnít have to be members.
Yes I am thinking of more surveillance devices. The trouble is ordering them as we share bank accounts and eBay and Amazon accounts. No spy shops in a town of 12,000, although I think if there was it would be busy.

Western posted 4/16/2018 10:09 AM

don't give her warning.

File and move on to greener pastures.

Her days of using you should be done

MrMagnolia posted 4/16/2018 10:23 AM

For surveillance maybe you can get one of your friends to lend you money or pay them for something out of the restaurant in exchange? Obviously, make sure to pick one that you can trust.

Smillie posted 4/16/2018 12:17 PM

Get into her phone and run Dr Fone on it to recover deleted info. I bet that would be super interesting. I would be doing everything I could to get into that phone. Thatís how I caught mine. Even if it means getting up in the wee hours of the morning when she is asleep. If you can crack the passcode then just take it and drive away somewhere with your laptop. Whatís she going to do? Call the cops?

Marriagesucks posted 4/16/2018 13:51 PM

Just be aware if your wife is a light sleeper be extra carefull. I'm assuming when she's awake it's glued to the hip. I told my brother to check his wifes brand new I-phone (sent to her by her BF). He got caught which turned into a knockdown hair/beard pulling fight (anything and everything she could grab onto) to get him to turn it loose.

MrMagnolia posted 4/16/2018 14:08 PM

He got caught which turned into a knockdown hair/beard pulling fight (anything and everything she could grab onto) to get him to turn it loose.

My STBXW never needed that much of an excuse to do the same to me and I was usually the one sleeping.

Cooley2here posted 4/16/2018 14:16 PM

Why do you need surveillance? You are already in abject misery. You need out of this marriage. You need out of this marriage ASAP. Cancer and its treatment drags you down and you need every bit of your energy and your focus to being well. You have children who rely on you. Sometimes people learn to live alone and I think that is what has happened to your wife. My husband had to be gone for a year and I only saw him twice. At the end of the year I was unsure whether I still loved him or not. He gave me time and we reconnected. One thing neither of us did was cheat. We both were dedicated to our family. When I mean he gave me time I was reconnected to him in every way within a month. I have no idea what happened to your wife but if she has moved on emotionally there really is nothing you can do. You need to look after yourself and your health and your children. You do not need to still be around someone who wants to be gone. It is not good for you.

MrMagnolia posted 4/16/2018 15:16 PM

I think she's been torturing him and he wants that validation she's cheating and with who for one.

Surveillance, I believe could play a role in court proceedings for one and may get him out of the M much faster and possible affect assets etc. At least that's what I gathered but I could be off.

Limbo79 posted 4/16/2018 17:05 PM

I guess Iím still in my marriage for a couple of reasons, until very recently I still loved my W, weíve been through so much together. Weíve crossed the ocean on a boat together at least10 times. Been through the Panama Canal 1/2 dozen times. Started up business, raised 3 boys together.
And of course thereís my children and the idea of being a family together.
I realise in all probability itís over. And now I guess I would just kind of like to know what happened. Unlikely that she will tell me. Itís hard to believe that when youíve been with some for 20 years you can end up not knowing who they are.
I have been very angry and thought about going over to the guys house who suspected but reason prevailed. Good thing I donít drink anymore.
When you work so hard to support a family and a dream/goal and then realise it was all rigged. I guess there is this vague hope that faced with concrete evedence she crack and tell me the truth.
Then I can decide if there is any chance for R. The trouble I have is the odds are stacked against me. Her 6 closest friends are either divorced ir 1 is divorcing at the moment. At least 2 had affairs 2 of them were seriously gaslamping there husbands. 2 just didnít want to be married anymore both of their husbands are now very happy much to their annoyance. So she is well
Instructed and I have heard them talking.
But I have the wheels slowly turning towards divorce but trying to give her the opportunity to talk.

MrMagnolia posted 4/16/2018 20:34 PM


You are doing great, man.

You're right that you can't know if you want R, yet. Knowing that such a situation may arise in the near future where that is the case well I think it's good to consider that possibility.

However in the biggest immediate obstacle to that possibility (and there's another big one or two past that) is that your WW isn't remorseful hasn't told you the truth and she may never be. It's also true that you have zero control over whether or not that happens.

I think you may be desiring to have the kind of WW that you would be willing to consider R with. I think many BS have that same feeling, regardless of how unworthy their WS may be. I know that I have. Talk about a mindfuck right? Infidelity messes with our brains so bad that the BS starts to fantasize and imagine a situation where they might be strong enough and possesses the will to be able to forgive someone who crushed both the BS's soul and desecrated there M.

I think you know already but just want to reiterate that the person who did what they did to destroy your M and betray your trust is absolutely not worthy of R. That's because as of right now real world that's the same person, unchanged, in different circumstance perhaps but still the same person that broke you into pieces in the first place. So as long as that's true how would you ever feel safe in your M again?
They must prove that they are willing to change.

If she wants to be a person worthy of R. She will need to make that decision on her own. You can offer assistance in that decision by showing her how strong you are and what she is missing out on and then showing her that you are willing to leave her behind if she isn't willing to work her ass off to catch up. If she isn't or pretends or think she can but can't the best thing is for you to keep on going. If she does those things and manage to keep pace again well then the decision is back on you and much tougher than the last IMO.

So maybe your WW will get to being remorseful and willing to change but it doesn't sound like she's anywhere near that point right now. You know better than anyone but from everything you've shared with us here, that's the way I see your current situation.

Western posted 4/16/2018 20:36 PM

so what exactly is your gameplan at this point and how are you going to get her to talk ?

Limbo79 posted 4/17/2018 00:40 AM

I guess Iíve never been one to take the easy way out. I could just say fuck it and file for D. Iím the sort of person who when they canít find something will keep looking till they find it. I donít like to give up. Drives me mad when I canít find a tool I need and I know that I saw it. Usually itís been moved or someone has used it and put it back in a different place. Having said that your right I have no control over my W or her actions. I can only make it clear as to what I want and what Iím willing to accept.
I think as much as I have been trying to show how I feel manoeuvre her towards counseling with me what Iíve really done is manoeuvre myself to where the only option is to file for D, maybe sheís doing the manoeuvring.
Iím worried about the cost of starting D, lawyers ainít cheap, and Iíve been trying to solve this without filing. But I guess I havenít really got very far.
Iíve written a letter to who not anywhere as good as the one in the healing section, Joshuaís letter I think. I couldnít just copy that as if doesnít directly apply to my situation.
Do I take the risk and give her the letter first before filing? Or just file? I know most of you will say file.

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