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In denial

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MrMagnolia posted 4/17/2018 01:12 AM

Hey man,

I think if you don't have any hard evidence the only chance you've got for knowing for sure is either to ramp up the spygames for a few weeks or just file for D and see how she reacts.

However, she's your wife and this your life so I can't make the call for you.

Here's a couple of questions I would be asking myself.

How do you imagine your letter will be received and how do you think your wife will react?

Is there anything/anyway that will convince you that she did not have an affair?

If no will you still proceed with the D if she continues to deny? Will she submit to a polygraph?

What is it about her actions that have been most damaging to your relationship?

Are you going to ask her for to be total transparent moving forward?

What do you need to make the M work? Dealbreakers? Boundries she will need to work on?

What will your wife need to do in order for you to be able to move forward?

What is it that you are most afraid of in this situation? (not that it should absolutely govern your thoughts but It's important to recognize what this is)

Those are just to help you the way I would try and help myself. I'm happy to work through them with you and add more too but that's where I would start.

Stay strong,

Limbo79 posted 4/17/2018 04:41 AM

Thanks Magnolia
Those are some excellent questions which I need to address. Some I have been thinking about but it’s all floating around my head. I am going to use those and have a good sole search and write down my answers.

Limbo79 posted 4/17/2018 06:48 AM

Here goes nothing

W’s reaction- not sure, I don’t know her as well as I thought. But possible reaction is anger and denial in which case I serve divorce papers. Or possibly moved to open dialogue. Which will be a long task but what I’m hoping for.

The only way to convince me would be for her to explain all the questionable things that happened. Meeting with the guy in the woulds- a timeline explaining how it happened and who invited who and how many times. Similar explanations for the other questionable events.

Not sure if polygraph is available in UK. Yes if w still denies without answering questions. Only stonewalling then divorce.

The most damaging - lack of affection, empathy, the lies, the talking behind my back, and if true sex with another guy.

Next few questions are sort of similar. She needs to be much more transparent. I don’t want control. She doesn’t need my permission to go out, or buy something. But just say before or after I’m going to or I did so and so. Absolutely no meeting with other men sorry. None. Not on there own. She needs to spend some time with me out of work and family. Some us time. I think she felt she shouldn’t be going for a drink at night while I was working so she didn’t say. Except because of what was going I on I checked.
I will stop checking up on her when she is more transparent. Not the other way around.
I need to know what happened to move forward. All of it.
I guess the unknown of what will happen next. And maybe failure. i.e. my marriage failed what could I have done. Mainly what will my children think. Will people understand why I did this when I have no substantial proof? My word against her. She grew up in this area I didn’t. She has family and school friends. Mines in the US.

Cooley2here posted 4/17/2018 07:54 AM

Just ask yourself if this is where you want to be next week, next month, next year, 20 years from now. Your answers to the questions will tell you what to do

MrMagnolia posted 4/17/2018 10:20 AM

Well, I'm not expert but from what I've read here and elsewhere and from what I know about my own situation it sounds like your head is in the right place.

I guess the unknown of what will happen next. And maybe failure. i.e. my marriage failed what could I have done. Mainly what will my children think? Will people understand why I did this when I have no substantial proof? My word against her. She grew up in this area I didn’t. She has family and school friends. Mines in the US.

I was afraid of many of the unknown more than anything before leaving my STBXW and that's pretty common.

I can't answer all of these questions but I might be able to put your mind at ease with some perspective.

1) What will your children think?

There's only so much you can do here b/c your half of the parenting team but I'll lend you my hindsight view of my own situation. I am twice the father now as I was when I was dealing with still being together with the STBXW.

It's tough as hell not seeing them every day and I'm of course still concerned about the long-term ramifications of our divorce on them. However, the turmoil and fighting wasn't a happy place for the kids to grow up and seeing a broken down version of myself as a father putting up with what I would have had to in order to stay wasn't the role model I wanted to be.

My oldest has told me recently how much happier we both seem (mostly me thought which made me smile) and how she hated the tension. Also, she really likes that I take her out to dinner every single week and she has a break from her little brother (when I have him on weekdays) every now and again. That's a 12 yr olds perspective for you.

I realized that I had two choices and neither was ideal but I know I made the best one.

2) Will people understand why you did this with no substantial proof?

Yes, as long as they choose to listen to you. If there is no trust in a marriage and you are unhappy people should be able to understand why you might make such a decision. They might not like it or agree with it but I doubt anyone who knows you well will say they can't understand it.

3) Without proof? Sure, one of the biggest and hardest hits that come with infidelity is the lies and deception. Those have been proven to you already by actions and words from your WW. I mean if you have a partner who is lying deceitful and has been emotionally abusive I would say you have good reason to consider ending that relationship. Emotional abuse I'm referring to here would be her abandonment of your needs when you were sick and alienation of affection (separate bedrooms) and that is absolutely a thing in case you weren't aware (I wasn't really until goign through some of it).

4) Court of Public Opinion? Her word against yours will suck. I've lost dozens of friends because of my divorce and my own STBXW blackballing. A few of them are starting to see the real her and I feel confident the truth will come out eventually. There's not much you can do about the character assassination other than to try and stay calm, tell your side of the story or just tell people it "didn't work out" I'm loving that one at the moment by the way :)

I feel for you and hope this helps.

Let us know what and when you think you'll make your move or if you're considering more spy games etc.

Edit...And I also agree with what Cooley said strongly. It took me like 1,000 words to everyone 1 that she wrote in order to pack the same amount of meaning into a single post. Thanks for making me look, bad. Though most of the credit does belong to me for not plotting out what I was going to say before starting. Alright, now I'm just extending this needlessly because I'm self-conscious about my reply all of the sudden. Gonna stop writing now...

[This message edited by MrMagnolia at 10:24 AM, April 17th (Tuesday)]

Limbo79 posted 4/17/2018 16:50 PM

To answer cooley2 if nothing changes for the better then I absolutely do not wish to be here.
My WW was asking today about spending money for our new business it would involve spending £5000.00 or so. All I can think is how can I think about spending more money on our joint venture if you can’t even sleep in the same room with me.
It’s not like we have stacks of cash and don’t need the money. It’s a big decision.
I chickened out this evening I was going to give her my letter. Maybe tomorrow.

anoldlion posted 4/17/2018 18:07 PM

You first told SI about your situation on 4/5/18. It is now 4/17/18 and nothing has changed because you haven't done anything to make things change. The situation will remain the same until you do something. Talking about it will not bring change. Only action will do that. Therefore, you either have to comfort with determination of exactly what you want or resolve to continue living in your world of limbo. Either lock and load or run up the white flag and surrender. I do wish you well.

Limbo79 posted 4/17/2018 18:47 PM

Maybe you are right anoldlion. It may look a white flag as no decision often ends up being the decision.
You have inspired me maybe not to immediate action but at least to very minor movement. To be honest I wish I had found this forum long ago.
I have left my letter for her to find in the morning.
I hope I don’t sound like the sketch from monty python where they say “right that calls for immediate discussion”
I have been wearing blinkers for so long that I can’t see what has been happening right before my eyes.
I guess my self esteem has slipped away without me noticing. Just these past 2 weeks of going to the gym I’m filling better already.
I don’t know why I’m worried about being alone or divorced I had been working away for 6 years being away from home more than being at home.
Step 1 give her the letter 👍
Step 2 call lawyer in the morning and book appointment
Breakfast should be interesting tomorrow.
Thanks guys hopefully a found my balls

Limbo79 posted 4/17/2018 18:49 PM

Let’s see if I can sleep now. It’s 00:45 way past my bed time. I have to get up at 06:30.

MrMagnolia posted 4/17/2018 21:03 PM

I think that it was time to take action in some regard and I applaud you doing so. Stuck in Limbo is a shitty way to live life :)

Good luck in the morning, bro. We are all there with you.

Limbo79 posted 4/18/2018 02:14 AM

Nothing yet. She has my letter. She asked if it was a letter of resignation. Joking I think. I said she should sit down and read it. So she took it with her.
Gonna be interesting working together today

MrMagnolia posted 4/18/2018 03:20 AM

In some ways, I suppose it might be considered a letter of resignation.

Interesting indeed.

Stay strong,

Limbo79 posted 4/18/2018 04:37 AM

My marriage may be dead but I’m still alive and kicking!
She hasn’t said a word about the letter. Been civil at work. But gone off for a few hours to an auction. It was scheduled not a last minute thing.

The1stWife posted 4/18/2018 04:58 AM

I hope you find empowerment in taking action!

Please prepare yourself for a number of responses from her. Try not to be blindsided by her again.

If she plays games and asks “what does the letter mean?” You need to be able to respond to her with a clear answer. It is acceptable to say “this M no longer works for either of us and we need to D” if that is your plan.

If she becomes enraged or hysterical - feel free to walk out if the room. Wait until she calms down to talk to her if possible.

Bigger posted 4/18/2018 05:13 AM


Based on what you have shared nobody can tell you with 100% certainty that your wife is having a physical affair. But everything strongly points that way. To me it’s important to make that definition. To realize the difference.
Imagine this scenario: Imagine that there was a string of burglaries in your area. One night you see a man wearing black clothing and a stocking over his head with a jimmy in his hand peeking through a window into a darkened house… You would be perfectly correct to assume this was a burglar and I would put the odds at 99% at you being correct. But just maybe he’s looking for a fancy-dress party…

You have so many red flags and I think your fear of confronting is based on not having the evidence. Like the burglar in the above example: His party-explanation wouldn’t stand up if he had loot in his pocket.

But irrespective of if she has had a physical affair (because just MAYBE she and Swim-dad were only talking) then there is emotional abuse and this is a highly dysfunctional marriage. You have enough issues simply on that basis that you have to take action.

One thing that has been asked but I can’t see an answer. IMHO your next step could be totally based on this factor:

Since OM is a father to someone on your kids swim-team: Is he married? Does his wife know?

MrMagnolia posted 4/18/2018 08:23 AM

Also, prepare yourself for more of the same story you've been getting. She's worked hard to create a certain narrative and she may not be willing to give that up.

GuyInColorado posted 4/18/2018 09:17 AM


Your marriage has been dead for a long time. It's sexless and loveless. You have nothing worth saving here, even if she isn't cheating.

I think you are almost at the point of being sick and tired of being sick and tired. Now it's time to take action.

Start working on yourself and don't spend one more second worrying about her needs and your marriage. That means your focus is now eating and drinking healthy, working out hard at the gym 5 days a week, and seeing a therapist once a week. It's time for you to start living a life of no regrets. Get out there and start dating when you're ready. You can't waste another day. You'll soon find someone that will love you and actually desire you.

I strongly recommend you read "No More Mr Nice Guy". Google it, there's a free PDF you can download if you don't want to spend $10. It's a quick read, just about 2 hours for the first pass through. I think it will open your eyes. It did for me.

[This message edited by GuyInColorado at 9:21 AM, April 18th (Wednesday)]

Bigger posted 4/18/2018 09:41 AM


The key reason I ask about the OM and if he’s married is this:
Let’s assume he’s married. After all – if he was single then why meet in the woods? IMHO only two reasons (rated on a scale from 1-10 on probability) :
a) They really were only walking the dog and talking about their marriages (1/10)
b) He’s married and they can’t meet at his house or where they could expect to be seen (9/10)

OK – So what do you KNOW. Not assume, but KNOW.
You KNOW WW was in the woods. You KNOW that shortly after she came out of the woods OM came out of the same woods. You KNOW WW sent a message to OM about being careful since you were home.

ASSUMING there was something inappropriate going on is logical. What it was, however, is still open.

So if he’s married then what you do (and you really need to do this) is phone his wife:

“Hey Swimdad Wife. This is Limbo, our kids are on the same swim-team. How are you? OK – Great… Hey… listen… this might sound strange but the other day I came home and my wife came out of the forest 100 yards from LimboHall. About a minute later your husband came out at the same place. Does he drive a tan Ford? Well… I found a message on my W phone to your husband warning him to be careful since I was home.”
“Strange? Yes. That’s what I thought.”
“No. I don’t know what’s going on.”
“Affair? Well… I was hoping you could tell me something. My wife insists they only walk to talk. I don’t know… What do you think? I must admit I’m not comfortable with the situation and hope it’s not an affair.”
“Well…. What you do with this info is up to you. If you do ask your H about it I would really appreciate if you kept me informed. If this really is nothing I would appreciate hearing what he says. He could even call me. If there is any more info I can offer or if you want to contact me my number is ####)”

And then you wait and see.
Never mention she is having an affair, simply describe what you know. Chances are 9/10 that you will get instant feedback:
OMW confirm there is an affair.
OMW will confront her husband and he will:
Either contact you and then you ask him what’s going on
Contact your WW who will come at you swinging.
No matter what then all the options are better than what you have been offered so far.

MrMagnolia posted 4/18/2018 11:04 AM

Bigger, you have a gift, my friend.

Limbo79 posted 4/18/2018 11:25 AM

I’m not sure if he is still married. From what I learned after he liked to hit on lots of woman there. Heard from another father after.
Unfortunately it all happened a bit while ago and I let it get stuck my head in the sand thought she isn’t the type to drive that.
But when when changed over time and something happened recently I started taking my head out of the sand. And I’ve realised something is going on and I’m in a dead marriage.
To many coincidences. Plus all the other shit. No affection for 3 years even during my treatment really.
When I was away before in would have a drink and forget about it. Not saying I was an alcoholic but I could drink. Helps dull the pain. Gave up when I was diagnosed with cancer. It was very easy, and it woke me up.

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