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Lost My Best Friend

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Neanderthal posted 8/4/2019 14:11 PM

As I sit here for the next few months wondering if I have HSV2, I'll do my best to contemplate forgiveness.

landclark posted 8/4/2019 14:16 PM

I’m kind of shocked at the turn this took where suddenly it’s being suggested the original poster is to blame. I think Neanderthal, you should read the following quoted post over and over and over again. You are NOT responsible for what she chose to do. It’s not some weird cosmic payback. My WH tried to say we were disconnected as a couple. Yeah, for the last few years we have been. Do I have some ownership for that? Absolutely. Do I have ownership of the fact that he opted to start cheating on me four months into our marriage? No, not at all. Do I deserve it because I haven’t always been a perfect wife or partner? Hell no.

No. You are not to blame. She is responsible for her choices. You were responsible for yours years back. If your actions back then are in any way connected to this affair, then it’s on her for choosing a shitty way to cope with your poor treatment. She could have requested counselling, divorced or consulted family - any other coping mechanism to deal and potentially solve your marital difficulties.
Now you get to choose how you cope with her betrayal. If you chose to run out and have an affair yourself - would that be your wife’s fault? No. You make your own decisions...no one can make us do something unless we allow it.

No one deserves infidelity. No one.

GreatWideOpen posted 8/4/2019 14:30 PM

Your situation is a lot to wrap our heads around. I had forgotten the swinging reference in your first post. When you say it didn't take off does that mean nothing happened where clothing came off, or does it mean that the boundaries you agreed to at that time were honored, or what? I made a similar mistake with my wife and over a year later our marriage is still all over the map trying to put the lingering effects of that time behind us.

Neanderthal posted 8/4/2019 14:34 PM

I had forgotten the swinging reference in your first post. When you say it didn't take off does that mean nothing happened where clothing came off, or does it mean that the boundaries you agreed to at that time were honored, or what?

Ask my wife. I don't feel like sharing much right now.

Murkywaters posted 8/4/2019 14:35 PM

If that is the case, then was it a mistake for her to forgive you and to become your “best friend?”
Two wrongs may not make a right, but maybe forgiveness should be a two way street.

Forgiveness is a choice she made. It doesn't mean he owes her a hall pass.

GoldenR posted 8/4/2019 14:36 PM

Yeah....her agreeing to swing is what caused this

Fucking. Please.

EarsEyesTongue posted 8/4/2019 15:27 PM

I’m not saying that she deserves a hall pass. I just think that the OP’s history is not that of the typical BS. Fact is, that for a period of time he allowed his wife to fuck other men so that he could fuck other women. I can only speculate as to why that situation changed. Why she was transformed from someone he called “unattractive” into someone he professed to love so deeply and no longer wished to share. I agree that both parties are broken. And I know the following flies in the face of the orthodoxy of this site... but I believe the OP’s past behavior contributed significantly to her current broken state.

HoldingTogether posted 8/4/2019 15:41 PM

Are👏🏻You👏🏻Fucking👏🏻Kidding👏🏻Me?!?!?!

Was Neanderthal always a perfect fucking husband? Of course not. No one ever is. But any attempt to draw some sort of equivalency between her behavior and his behavior is fucking absurd when you consider the fact that any and every mistake and flaw that he freely admits to was done out in the fucking open with his wife’s full awareness and acquiescence. You might not agree with any of it, you might not fucking like any of it. But it is fucking unfair to try to equate any of it.

Yes, he said some fucked up shit. But he said it directly to her. Giving her the oh so fucking important ability to choose what to do about that fucked up shit. He encouraged her to try swinging. Again, she had the ability to choose what to do about that.

Even his alcoholism, unless his drinking was all done in secret, was an issue that she was aware of. Giving her the ability to choose wether or not an alcoholic is someone she wanted in her life.

She, on the other hand, made him an unaware and unwilling participant in a fucking love triangle. She risked the well being of his family, his children and his health, all without his knowledge or consent. And, when directly questioned about it, boldly lied to his face and then escalated her behavior.

She robbed him of his agency. She restricted his access to information vital to making crucial decisions about his own life.

Any attempt to equate those two things is misguided and damaging to someone at this point of the process.

At some future point, if he should chose to reconcile with his WW, Neanderthal and his WW will certainly need to address some of his behaviors (in a manner that clearly and unequivocally separates his issues from her Infidelity) if they want to build a healthy new marriage. But throwing all that shit into the same fucking soup is sure fire recipe for him to start to blame himself and for her to start to justify herself.

Let’s not put the horse before the fucking cart here guys.

HT

nekonamida posted 8/4/2019 16:29 PM

^^^ AMEN!!!

There's also a huge difference between consenting to multiple partners where there's a chance of STDs and his WW refusing to tell him that she might have given him herpes from the OM! It's crazy to me that some posters feel the need to be the morality judge and jury on their fellow BSes just because they did things they don't agree with or don't like and act like infidelity and herpes are an appropriate punishment.

Neanderthal posted 8/4/2019 16:33 PM

I’m not saying that she deserves a hall pass. I just think that the OP’s history is not that of the typical BS. Fact is, that for a period of time he allowed his wife to fuck other men so that he could fuck other women. I can only speculate as to why that situation changed. Why she was transformed from someone he called “unattractive” into someone he professed to love so deeply and no longer wished to share. I agree that both parties are broken. And I know the following flies in the face of the orthodoxy of this site... but I believe the OP’s past behavior contributed significantly to her current broken state.

I guess i deserve this. so ill explain our swing time. The rules were pretty simple. We played in front of other people, she liked being watched. She could do anything at anytime, as long as i was aware of it and there. She was never with another man. She said she didn't want that. But she did play with other women. I basically was just there to view. Once in a blue moon id touch a titty. She even let me go down on a girl once.
All of this frustrated me, after all it was my idea, and she was the only woman id ever been with (terrible logic, i know).
Through all of this i was drinking very heavily. And self medicating with my depression pills. Again no excuse. One night at a swingers party we had a couple in our room. Everyone really really drunk, naked and no lights in the room. Then the biggest mistake of my life happened. I started to screw the other woman. immediately my wife new and started crying. obviously the night ended. Honestly i don't remember the night, but i do remember her crying. That has haunted me ever since. The swinging pretty much stopped shortly after. We never really talked about it much.

In the end i am aware of my hypocrisy. I have no right to be angry at her. I'm worse then her in many ways. But i still feel dead inside from what she did. I wish i could just get over it.

As for my feelings toward her changing as we grew together. I don't know what happened. Maybe having my child, maybe me realizing i was the idiot, my tastes changed? I don't know. But i was and still am attracted to her.

EarsEyesTongue posted 8/4/2019 16:51 PM

I am simply choosing not to ignore the history outlined by the OP himself in his initial post. He is taking a hard line, and that is his prerogative. He is getting plenty of support here in following that course. I may be old fashioned and outnumbered in my opinion, but I DO equate the “swinging” lifestyle and “open marriage” with infidelity. For that reason, I can’t help but view the OP as the party who initially normalized extramarital sex as a component of their relationship.

landclark posted 8/4/2019 16:55 PM

but I believe the OP’s past behavior contributed significantly to her current broken state.

And this very well could be part of her why, but at the end of the day she still owns her behavior. There are other ways she could have handled the fallout from their early years. She CHOSE to cheat. She wasn’t forced into it. Not tricked into it.

66charger posted 8/4/2019 17:07 PM

No I am not fucking kidding you. And any attempt to leave out vital information in your decision making process can also be damaging. My post was not about the swinging. The things you said to her damages a person to their core. I really don't care what any of the purist say. You can not treat someone like dirt and when dirt is inflicted on you, raise your hand and say "but that doesn't count".

Yes it does count. And deep down you know it does. If you beat your dog ever day, the dog will do 1 of 3 things.

1) Run away.
2) Turn around and bite you.
3) Die.

It is your choice whether to reconcile or not, but let's be clear. As a man it was your DUTY to bring stability, peace and prosperity into your household and all you brought was chaos. Was any of this a "reason" for her to cheat? No it was not. My point is that you should CONSIDER everything when you are in the process of making your decision.


66charger posted 8/4/2019 17:27 PM

I really need to add something else.

Much respect to you for the beat down of the AP down. When faced with the OM in my situation, he said the wrong thing and received a straight right down the middle.
I must say I loved it and still do.

I think you are missing something here. When this blew up, you demanded the info about the AP. You forced the meeting and your WW WATCHED while you beat this man down for touching your wife. Then you kicked her out and are in the process of considering divorce. And now she finds out that loverboy has herpes. That's how you lift the fog on a WS.

A shot and a beer for the Neanderthal guy.

Honestly, I don't post much on the JFO side because the doormat threads make me sick. And the Reconcile at all cost posters are no better.

But in your case, you have done what needed to be done. The chances of her reoffending are near zero. Not only does she know you will divorce Her, but she knows that any OM will likely face physical violence.

Some may not agree, but I believe it is YOUR actions that make reconciliation possible. I guess in some ways a lot of us have the Neanderthal still in us.

It may be time to consider bringing her home and working on things outside of a forum.

Curious question. Did she initiate or ask for sex after you beat down her AP?


Neanderthal posted 8/4/2019 17:35 PM

EarsEyesTongue and 66charger are right. I laid the groundwork for a failed marriage. Even if it was 7/8 years ago. Since then i've tried to bring stability, peace and prosperity to our family. But it was to little and obviously to late.

I am considering everything. Including that she deserves better. better then me.

As for sex, she hasn't wanted sex from me in a long time. Even after Dday.

HoldingTogether posted 8/4/2019 17:44 PM

You can not treat someone like dirt and when dirt is inflicted on you, raise your hand and say "but that doesn't count".

I am not saying it doesn’t count. What I am saying is that it is not equivalent. And if you think that the best way to deal with the trauma of the immediate aftermath of an infidelity is to litigate the entirety of the marriage you are mistaken in that belief.

As I said, if they should choose to reconcile, these issues will st some point need to be addressed in order to build a healthy marriage. But this is not the time for that. Laying that on a BS this early after Dday is like tossing a drowning man a fucking cannonball. It will be met with either a destructive level of defensiveness or an equally destructive measure of self-loathing and self recrimination. Neither of which will help move the ball forward here.

Additionally the type of moral equivalency you are espousing here is dangerous for the WS in question as well. You might as well crack open a bottle Jack for an alcoholic. Most WS’ have usually spent the entirety of their affair telling themselves that their behavior is justified because their BS did X,Y or Z. Heading out the gate post Dday by giving them even a fucking hint that those justifications might be even a little bit justified is like handing an extra box of ammo to the guy robbing you at gun point.

Look I get what you are trying to say, and a few months into Reconciliation I would be down with encouraging a discussion about these issues. But for now? Your timing is for shit on this one.

EarsEyesTongue posted 8/4/2019 17:49 PM

Does she refuse sex, or do you get the feeling she is just not into it?

Neanderthal posted 8/4/2019 17:57 PM

Does she refuse sex, or do you get the feeling she is just not into it?

She doesn't refuse it. She just said she doesn't have any sex drive

EarsEyesTongue posted 8/4/2019 18:40 PM

So you have been in a sexless marriage? That is a whole other kettle of fish. Are you attracted to her? Or is she literally just your best friend? Have you tried to address this problem?

Neanderthal posted 8/4/2019 18:56 PM

So you have been in a sexless marriage?

i wouldn't say sexless. I would initiate it fairly often.

She just said she doesn't have any sex drive

i realized after writing this, that it was a lie. At least during the last 7 months anyways. She's had enough drive to send him pictures, videos, meet up and fool around and sex with OM.

EarsEyestongue you are a rather new member to SI. May I ask why you are so interested in my current problems?

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