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Lost My Best Friend

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TimSC posted 8/7/2019 13:47 PM

I understand your stance of DNA for your daughter, but beg you to reconsider for her sake.

I have personally seen doctors struggling to treat a very sick child with no success. Only after it was revealed by a blood test that the "father" was not the biological father and all the family medical history was tainted were they successfully able to treat the child.

Don't let your feelings blind you from the truth and possible future health of you daughter. If there is any doubt at all, then DNA.

Neanderthal posted 8/7/2019 13:52 PM

I asked her if she feels any of this.
Is that the real question you wanted to ask her or was it an attempt to remind her of the situation she caused?

It was what i wanted to ask. She seemed like a robot, i couldn't understand why.

If you decide to divorce do so because YOU want it, not as a means to get revenge or to punish your wife. It would be terrible for you to be miserable 3-4 years from now because you still think you could have worked things out, but your pride stood in your way.

This is a powerful statement. I will definitely think about it. Honestly I don't know what I want.

I think the real issue with your wife and the herpes issue is not that she possibly brought a STD into the marriage. The real issue is that (a) she cheated and (b) she lied through omission.

Bingo! How could she not tell me?! That's just as bad as the OM not telling her. maybe worse

How did day one at your daughters kindergarten drop off go ?

It was surreal. WW come over this morning and helped get our little one ready. Then we drove together as a family unit (my idea). I watched my daughter handle all the new stuff with ease. First time through breakfast line. Waiting with a group of strange children until her teacher collected them all. Saying goodbye to us like it was just another Wednesday. I was very proud of her.

But I was a fucking mess. I kept catching myself staring at my WW. She wouldn't make eye contact. For the first time in our marriage, I saw every man in the room as a threat. Every guy I saw could be what she wants or she is looking for. It was a terrible feeling.

We said goodbye to little miss kindergarten princess and I practically ran to the parking lot because I couldn't hold it in anymore. I started balling. WW asked to touch me, I guess I nodded. She held me as I wept. We drove home in silence.

When we got home she asked to talk and I agreed. I told her how I was feeling at the school. I asked a few more questions about the affair. She then read me her apology letter. I could see she wasn't a robot, and I thanked her for sharing it with me.

I told her I don't think she knows what she wants yet. She's lost everything and is grasping at anything.
I told her I don't know what I want yet. Her actions after I opened up to her a month ago really make it hard for me to possibly reconcile. A month or so ago is when I confided that I thought I was losing her, and I want to work on us, etc. But she swore up and down I was imagining things and then she continued/escalated the affair after that.

Lastly, Please everyone, I beg you. No more talk about Paternity tests or if my girl is in fact my girl. The can of worms is open. Trust me, its on my mind. But I cant do that, not now. My little one is the main reason i'm still trying to live.
I told my WW about this and she immediately said lets do a paternity test, if it would ease my mind.

ShutterHappy posted 8/7/2019 14:01 PM

One step at a time. It WILL get better.

landclark posted 8/7/2019 14:34 PM

The first day of kindergarten is an emotional day anyway without having to deal with everything else you're dealing with. The fact that you drove together with your wife and stood side by side with her for your child shows an incredible amount of strength on your part. I hope your baby had an amazing day!

One step at a time.

Exactly this....that's all you can do.

[This message edited by landclark at 4:06 PM, August 7th (Wednesday)]

rugswept posted 8/7/2019 14:48 PM

N .. that was an amazing post. one of the best, heart felt i have ever read on these forums.

i wish you, your daughter and your WW the very best no matter where this goes.

yes, you've had some very bad experiences, but you and your family has much more that brings you together than what breaks you apart.

none of those men you saw today are a threat if your WW is done with that foolish selfish behavior she was involved in. some waywards have a big reform on their behavior when they get the close scrape to losing everything.

when living the A, they're living a delusional fantasy where most of what they think, believe and feel is just foolish. when facing the D, they're living the reality of the A where the OP is gone and so is their M and everything that came with it.

it's too early for all of you to bring the A to a conclusion. just give it time, things may change.

Mene posted 8/7/2019 18:45 PM

Itís OK to cry. Grieve the marriage you had. Let her know about your pain. WS have their head up their ass so much they donít even get what it feels like to be betrayed.

This emotional roller coaster will go on for months and potentially years whether you R or D.

Every couple deserves a chance to R. But the heavy lifting must come from the WS. Because if theyíre not committed to demonstrating to you they want you and only you, then it wonít succeed. You, too, have to put in a lot of work and be in a position to accept her if you forgive her. Resentment will kill off the marriage.

But you donít have to start R now. You have been dealt a massive shock and you need to recover from it. Take your time. Trauma takes a while to subside and you must seek professional help to overcome it.

At least you had the chance to smack the AP. Most of us never get the chance to confront them.

Scoobydoo posted 8/8/2019 03:37 AM


So glad your little girl bloomed.

Lovely to see your love through your words when you talk about her.

Take 1 moment at a time, 1 day at a time, 1 thing at a time

thats all you can do.


Butforthegrace posted 8/8/2019 07:02 AM

That first day of kindergarten is such a milestone. It brings most parents to tears. The catharsis that is occurring in your family at this time multiplies it.

Dropping your child off at college is like this, times a million. It's only about 13 years hence. Those years will pass by faster than any other 13-year span of your life. Your daughters extracurricular activities will begin to consume your free time, making those years a blur.

What do you want your family to look like on that day. Now is the time to look in that direction and put one foot in front of the other.

Neanderthal posted 8/9/2019 10:20 AM

Thank you all for the kind words.

It been a rough couple of days. I'm failing at the 180. I show her my emotions and even have sent some texts explaining what love really is. I'm playing the pick me game. I see her everyday, and that's making it even more difficult.

My daughters first 2 days of school went well. But alas she gets to start over again. My WW got a job at a different school in the district we wanted our daughter to attend. So she will have another first day of school at a different school in a couple weeks.

My WW was so excited to tell me about the new position. Its actually closer to home at a newly built school. All I could respond with was: I'm so glad your affair didn't have any impact on your career.

She got defensive and then later apologized for that.

Yesterday I came home, and she was there with my daughter. I could smell her as soon as I got out of my car in the garage. That smell was/is intoxicating to me. I walked in and asked her if the OM ever complimented her on her scent. She looked at me like I was crazy, and said: of course not!

That really bothered me. I'm not sure why. I know I've complimented her on that. Why wouldn't he? if they were so in love. That's when I started the pick me game texts.

Last night I took all the pictures down in the house that was just us together. She saw that this morning and told me my daughter deserves to still see pictures of us together. I did not remove any pictures my daughter was in. She was frustrated this morning, border line angry. Saying this is her house too.

So after I left for work I sent her this text:

Your daughter deserved a mother who would put her first. A mother that would face her problems as a parent instead of running into another man's arms and playing house with his kids. I deserved to know you needed more from me. I deserved the chance to help you and us. Instead you found love elsewhere. I didn't deserve that.
You say you put us first. That simply is not true. The amount of time and energy required to have an affair, and play house proves otherwise. You are lying to yourself and to us. Now you are becoming frustrated and angry. Saying things like " it's my home too". You don't deserve to say that. You mentally checked out of our home months ago.

Please look at yourself. I can't help you. I have to help myself.

And her response:

You are absolutely right, our daughter didn't deserve to have such a selfish mother. I know you don't believe me, but it kills me to know what I have done to the both of you. I should have told you that I needed attention. I should have told you that I felt like all I did was give and give at home and felt jealous of the attention you both got. I should have told you that I needed to hear the words "I love you" from you and say them to you every time I wanted to. But I am not lying to you or myself when I say that you two are the only important thing in my life. I want to come home because I want to be here for the both of you. I want our daughter to see that her mommy is putting her first. I want you to see that I will never ever hide my feelings from you or ever run to another person. I want you to see that I feel terrible for how bad I've hurt you. I want you to see that I will do everything it takes to rebuild a relationship with you, and I will never betray you again.

I'm so spun around I don't know what's what anymore.

nekonamida posted 8/9/2019 10:28 AM

Take your time. Really think about it. There's no rush to make a decision right now.

She doesn't have to be at home and married to you to put your daughter first. She can and should be doing that no matter where she is and you have every right to question that when so soon ago when she didn't even seem to think how badly an A with someone at her job and daughter's school was going to impact her. Right now putting your daughter first includes allowing you, the father, space to process this and take down triggering pictures for the time being if that's what you need.

Trdd posted 8/9/2019 11:24 AM

Its tricky applying this stuff.

I dont think you are doing the pick me dance at all. That really requires her to be pursuing the AP or rugsweeping dramatically. she isnt doing that and you aren't doing pick me just because you are interacting with her.

Not saying you need to invite her back immediately, but you can understand how moving out at all, let alone at the start of kindergarten, is going to be hard on a mom, right?

I think she's trying to do the right things. Hell, some WS push the BS out of the house, believe it or not. Others stay in the house, refuse to give the BS any space at all and just rugsweep. Your WS left of her own accord based on what you wanted. That's way better than most situations actually.

Limiting conversation to childcare only is to allow you to stabilize a bit and gain perspective. When you need to start to talk or write can start doing that and not feel guilty about it. It doesn't mean you are caving in in some way. It's natural and necessary. You are smart to pace how much you do. But when you need it, you need it.

There's a decent chance that reconciliation is the best option for you. You'll need to talk, and cry and communicate a whole lot before you can figure that out. And then a whole lot more if you decide to actually do it.

Robert22205https posted 8/9/2019 11:41 AM

I don't think you're playing the pick me dance.

Nothing you feel, say or do has surprised me. Recovery from infidelity is a messy process.

You don't trust her (understandable) and (assuming she's being honest) she wants to show you that she's remorseful and wants to do whatever it takes to make you feel safe.

My point is: recovery from infidelity is a process vs 10 clear steps. You'll both make mistakes and say and do the wrong thing.

Be patient...don't rush to R or D

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 11:42 AM, August 9th (Friday)]

Gettingoveritall posted 8/9/2019 11:53 AM

I don't think you are doing the pick me dance either.

This stuff is a real crapstorm, isn't it?

Your wife is saying the right things, which is why this is so confusing for you. Saying the right things is easy.

The only way you can ever start to trust that she truly gets it is when she has proven through her actions, over time (think months, at a minimum), that she is willing to do the right things.

What is she doing right now that proves that she gets it? To prove that she understands what she has done? To prove that she wants to be with you?

The words are nice, but meaningless if there is no action behind them.

numb&dumb posted 8/9/2019 12:07 PM

I know you want to believe those words so badly. It is OK. Trust me a lot of have been there.

Stay guarded.

Is there anything you think she could do for you right now ?

What is your thinking about letting her come home ?

If she truly wants to fix this it woul be much harder to fake that if she is there with you. Plus handling everything at home by yourself is going to take a toll on you.

Her moving home doesn't have to mean anything other than logistics.

As much as we demand that our WS do the heavy lifting we have to at least to open to them. While we can't be sure of their real feelings it is very hard to fake being remorseful over an extended period of time.

It is 100% your call. I just think that giving her a chance to redeem herself would be a very powerful motivator.

Another thing that might be helpful for you is to trust, but also verify.

example. She said she was at work until 5 PM. If you both install life 360 you be notified exactly when she leaves. That way you can see when her words line up with her actions.

Small steps. See how they feel. Sit with your emotions.

Also it might be helpful to write down how you feel and the effects her A has had on you. Sometimes just writing them down an having her read them without an opportunity to interrupt will get your point across.

This is something a person will never understand unless it happens to them. Our WS owe to us to fully understand the conseuqences of their choices. Not only to them, but those people close to them.

We are still here. We are still listening.

rugswept posted 8/9/2019 12:29 PM

she is demonstrating all the things necessary for her to be considered suitable for R.

we all ffff up in life. i had to forgive a really bad 18 month LTA. it was difficult. it was long ago and we went on to have a very successful marriage.

your fWW sounds like she really does want to be a good mom and a much better W. i don't believe what she told you about the A. i think there's more to it than she said. the point is it never sounded like an extreme A.

the very worst thing about the A is that you felt something was wrong and told her to stop it and she denied it all and then went on and escalated it. and the "playing house" bit was over the top.

all that said, it sounds like she's ready to come home in many different ways. a trial live in "while separated" might be something to try. give her a chance to show she can be what she says she wants to be - a mom first and then a better W later.

i wish you well. you've been through so much in all of this.

GoldenR posted 8/9/2019 12:39 PM

From what I've seen, this isn't a case where the pick me dance can even really exist.

She does want you. At least NOW she does anyway. Theres no need in convincing her to stop her A. Its over in favor of you.

Revealing to her that you love her isn't playing pick me.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 12:40 PM, August 9th (Friday)]

ShutterHappy posted 8/9/2019 12:39 PM

Pickme is when the Wayward is "in love" with the AP and the BS tries to better oneself to appear "better" than the AP and "win back" the WS.

What it looks like (in your text exchange) is that you are muddling through R. You canít expect to be textbook perfect in those situations

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 12:41 PM, August 9th (Friday)]

NoOptTo posted 8/9/2019 13:53 PM

Hey N,

I'm glad you wrote what you wrote to your WW. And I appreciate her response. I have read both both of your threads. As others have said, and I agree, though your WW is making little mistakes her and there, she is trying hard to give you space to heal. You are also correct to be guarded. She has has proven to be a liar and cheater. You are looking for an emotional response from her as her FOO issues are taking over and she is showing a stoic outlook. This is evident in you two talking the day of your DDs first day of kindergarten, you both showed your feelings. Yes it could of been a show for you. Only time will tell.

It seems to me that you want to see remorse from her. Do you have a spare bedroom in your house? Think about letting her use that room if you have one. Give her the opportunity to prove that she is a candidate for R by viewing her actions. Actually, if she wanted to come home, you can not legally stop her since it is her legal address of residence also. I'm not saying to open up to her. Continue the 180, looking after your DD and yourself. But you will be able to first handily see if your WW is just regretful for her actions , wallowing in guilt, or remorseful showing you through her action helping you try to heal from her poor selfish behaviors. As it has been stated, I think you should see a few lawyers to learn all about the D process. Knowledge is power. The more information you have, the better educated decision you can make for you. Infidelity may be a total dealbreaker for you. Your WW may only show you regret with her actions rather then remorse and you choose to move out of infidelity by D. You are entitled to take that route. She broke the marriage covenant. You are protecting yourself. She may show you real remorse through her actions. You reconsider offering her the gift of R because she is proving to becoming a safe partner, helping g you heal. It's your call. You take control of where this relationship is going now by viewing her behavior. Though it may be tough having her back, in the end if she is committed to healing her family as she professes she wants, what better place to have her then home earning that forgiveness from you and DD.

Butforthegrace posted 8/9/2019 13:59 PM

It is in your best interests for your WW to have a good job in a good district no matter whether you R or D. Where the WW and the AP are co-workers or such, people often advocate for the WW to leave the job so that she isn't in contact with the AP on a daily basis at work. That has been accomplished here.

It also benefits your daughter, who can attend classes in the better district.

I generally think it's a bad idea to communicate about these issue via text or email. This is a passive-aggressive way of communicating. Text/email is the worst tool for problem-solving. You should make notes to yourself, compose your thoughts, and communicate with your voice, speaking words, in person.

I think you're doing well under the circumstances. Keep your chin up and live life day to day.

Neanderthal posted 8/10/2019 10:17 AM

Dropping your child off at college is like this, times a million. What do you want your family to look like on that day. Now is the time to look in that direction and put one foot in front of the other.

This struck me pretty hard. In fact I cried over it. The thought of us standing there with two separate families or as two alone people seemed unbearable.

Thank you all for the kind words. I struggling with my decision making, because I don't trust myself.

Someone mentioned text and email as a bad way to communicate. Its hard to understand emotion that way. So I started writing down my feelings, and plan to share them with her personally. I also advised her to do the same.

Yesterday I wrote this and I read it to her in person. I'm not sure why i'm sharing it here. I guess maybe so some other WS might get a glimpse of what they have done. Its pretty long winded for forum posts go, i'm sorry. Also i'm not particularly good at writing.

I Lost You†

I donít know how to describe how I feel. It's worse than anything I thought imaginable. When I was a child. My dad told me he was moving to Florida and I couldnít come. That crushed me, but this.....This destroyed me.†

I always felt I had someone guarding my back. The same way I felt I was guarding yours. That no matter what, WE would figure out together how to overcome anything. Although I didnít show you in ways that you noticed, God I loved you. I didnít want anymore chickens, or to build another coop. I did that to make you happy. I wanted you go enjoy your time in Vegas, because I knew you deserved a break. I hate nail holes in the walls, but I put up the pictures and nick knacks you like, because I love you. All of these are terrible examples of love. I wish I knew that before.†

I took a lot for granted, thereís no excuse for that. But I truly didnít know how much I failed you. I wasnít the husband you deserved before the affair.†

Before the affair, the biggest concerns we had was what cable, or tv service we would use. Or so I thought. I didnít know you had grown to resent or even hate me.†

I was a content, fairly happy, confident man. I new my most important rock, my moral compass was by my side. I knew you would keep me out of danger, pull me back from doing stupid things. Then kiss me and tell me we will be ok. I expected too much. I needed you too much. I could walk into a room with you full of handsome, intelligent men.....and know I had nothing to worry about. Because we loved each other. Again, I expected too much.†

I didnít trust anyone! No family members, Navy buddies, friends, or co workers. But I trusted you. I offered you the one thing I could never give anyone else. That was my trust and confidence. Again, I expected too much.†

That Thursday when you asked to babysit his kids, the way you responded when I said: "Boy, you and OM sure are getting chummy.Ē I knew, I knew I had lost you somewhere. I immediately felt everything around me crashing to the ground. I was on the verge of throwing up. I composed myself and said to myself: ĒNot You, not my better half. Not my moral compass". She would never do that to me. After all, life was pretty good. So I buried it inside me ..... until I saw you that night. I wanted to believe what you were saying to me. I really did. I expressed how much I loved you, I was sorry for not telling it to you. I would have shouted it for hours that night. If I had only known sooner....... Then we had sex. It felt so good, I felt connected to you. But deep down I knew, I lost you. The way we said goodnight Thursday, just felt so distant. Again, I knew, I lost you.†

The next day, I tried so hard to fight my gut, allow our love to overcome my concerns, but I couldnít. As soon as I saw that the first thing you did was contact him, after we just had sex, after I just laid it all out there. I knew, I had lost you. Then the call logs didnít stop. The same number, over and over again. I couldnít breathe, I started to shake, I was crying. I couldnít hold it back anymore. I left work early and went to your dads. Hoping he could convince me Iím an idiot, obviously you had a good explanation. But we both sat there looking confused and petrified.

Then I went home. While you were watching another manís kids. A man I knew nothing about, a man that had become your new best friend. A man I couldnít be when you needed it. Everything broke in me. The lies, the denial, and your final admittance. It broke me beyond anything I could ever imagine. Suddenly we were the only two people left on earth, but you didnít want me. I could feel everything good I had ever known disappearing. I knew, I had lost you.†

If it wasnít for our daughter, Iím pretty sure I wouldnít be here to write this to you now. If it wasnít for her, I know in my heart, I couldnít continue to live. My rock, my friend, my moral compass, I had lost you. What was there to live for. I feel EVERYTHING. In its most extreme form. Hatred, Love, Guilt, misery, etc. All at once, or combinations of them all.†

I have nothing left. Iím not who I was, nor will I ever be again. I cannot even end the pain because I know my daughter needs me. I must somehow accept my new reality. A reality where I lost you. My best friend, my rock, My moral compass. I always felt you were a better person than me. I had to, because†
thatís how little I think of myself. But I cant even believe in you anymore. I donít care about the house, the money, the job, the 401K. I cared about you, and keeping you safe, in a good home, with our daughter.†

I do not believe I can overcome what you have done to me. There isn't enough left of me to even try. I†would have given you every ounce of me, you just had to ask. Instead you took every ounce of me and tossed me in the trash. Exactly where I thought I belonged before I fell in love with you.†

I loved you. Iím so sorry I said it after it was too late.

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