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Lost My Best Friend

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emergent8 posted 11/21/2019 18:14 PM

I'm just glad I can still feel.

I'm glad too, Neanderthal. Hope you're doing well.

Just want to reiterate to you for the millionth time, that it was your wife's poor coping skills and poor boundaries that caused this NOT anything you did. I know you get this, intellectually and I also know that you don't believe it yet - I've been there. Marriage is a commitment for better or worse, it is not conditional on perfect behavior. You deserve a marriage where you can be your imperfect self.

Hang in there, let yourself feel.

Bigger posted 11/24/2019 18:30 PM

Neanderthal

I want to ask about your sobriety.
How are you handling it?
Are you only not drinking?

How about AA?
Looked into 12 Steps?
Honestly friend – You don’t need to be a raging alcoholic to benefit from a good sponsor and 12-step work. I think it might be the best therapy for you available.

ps the reason I mention this is because I get a sense that you (a) are focusing on punishing your wife (B) enjoy feeling miserable and (c) dont have a goal or focus...

Neanderthal posted 11/24/2019 20:07 PM

Are you only not drinking?
Lol. You make that sound so easy. I guess the answer to that is yes. I am still sober. I haven't been attending meetings or doing the 12 step program. Personally I view those as tools, not requirements for sobriety.

I've recently been called a dry drunk by another member of SI. Maybe this is true, but it's seems more like a perception rather than reality.


I get a sense that you (a) are focusing on punishing your wife (B) enjoy feeling miserable and (c) dont have a goal or focus...
I don't understand that wife punishment thing. I separated to start moving on. I no longer want to think about infidelity 24/7. Since she's left, I've actually had some moments of peace.
If you could explain why you think I'm just punishing her, maybe I could explain or at least understand your view point.

I'm also not reading her thread, or anything in the Wayward section anymore.

I don't like feeling miserable, and I was much more so while she was here. In my opinion I'm trying to not feel miserable.

I don't post much here about my goals, because most of them do not include my wayward wife.

Dismayed2012 posted 11/25/2019 10:35 AM

You're moving forward Neanderthal. That's all that you need to focus on right now. I agree with not reading the wayward forums and moving your wayward out. You're taking the quickest action toward healing. Your moments of peace will get longer and longer. Your wife's choices will over time become momentary thoughts; they should soon cease to be constant. Continue to take care of yourself. Change up your routine, work out, and find yourself some new hobbies. Taking your life back takes time and some effort but in the months and years ahead you'll thank yourself for maintaining the strength to do so. I wish the best for you.

Lalagirl posted 11/25/2019 14:12 PM

Bigger, I must admit that I am surprised at your "PS" post - that was not very supportive or kind.

emergent8 posted 11/25/2019 14:34 PM

My first take is that Bigger has earned the right to ask tough questions on this thread. I think/hope Neanderthal realizes his questions come from a supportive place.

My second take is that Neanderthal, understandably, edits what he shares here due to his WW's presence on these boards and her prior efforts using what is said here to manipulate her actions. Although he is not reading on the Wayward section, he is likely very aware that she is reading every word he writes. For that reason, he cannot be open about what is going on for him internally (either to protect himself or to protect her feelings). It's a strange situation, but it is what it is....


Bigger posted 11/25/2019 16:27 PM

N
I’m not an alcoholic but I have friends and family that are, and some of them have done successful 12 step work. I do some volunteering with young recovering addicts and IMHO those that do best are those that are intent on their 12-step.
Heck… You don’t even have to be an alcoholic. I have done one “circle” in 12-step. I think my time here on SI is part of my 12th step (service). I just felt this… tool… was a great aid in helping me become what I wanted to be. I want to be a man of integrity, and hope I am. I hope 12-step helped me focus on becoming that.

I say 1 circle because an alcoholic should regularly go through the 12 steps. Becomes easier every time, but I haven’t had the need, maybe because I’m not battling an urge to drink.

N – What’s your aim with the separation? If it’s to detach and divorce then go ahead. Pull the band-aid. You sensibly ask we don’t share between your and ww thread. I will respect that. She has never implied or said directly that you are getting revenge, but I read it between the lines. Both here and there.

If the aim of the separation is not to improve YOU – with or without her – well… Then I don’t get it.

Seriously friend – Look into 12 step.


Neanderthal posted 11/25/2019 20:20 PM

The 12 step program I'm familiar with is usually a life long process. Many of those in the meetings I've been to, take years to complete a few steps. I haven't comfortably identified my higher power. Those familiar with the 12 step process know how important that is.

As for the purpose of the separation....

It's completely for me. I don't want my main trigger around me. I wanted to let my guard down in my own home. I felt like a prisoner in my room.

I want to continue detaching. As high school sweethearts, we have been leaning on each other our entire adulthood. She's proven not to be someone I can count on anymore. I need to be happy and capable of living alone.

I asked her to move out. I did not kick her out. Had she said no, I would have moved out on my own.

Hopefully I can grieve the death of my mom, and my marriage.

I will continue to do IC. Focusing on how to better myself from this experience.

I want to survive the holidays. Forgive me if I pause some of the fix me stuff until after the holidays. I just want a forking break.

Im all for suggestions on how to better myself. I hear you about the 12 steps. Can a take some time to breathe before I peel my forking layers off?

Bigger you know I value your opinion. Please hear me on this. I do not want to or intend to hurt my wife. I just can't be around her right now. Does that make sense?

Emergent8 thanks again. You're right, mentally I know the affair was hers to own. But emotionally it's not that easy to accept.

Beachwalker posted 11/25/2019 20:55 PM

N: I have read some of your posts and your WW’s, so I kinda’ get both sides of the story. I am like you – a BH. Yes, it definitely is ok to take a forking break! You need to at times. It’s ok. This stuff will wear you down like nothing else can. YOU decide when you need a break, and for how long. Like you stated, the holidays are coming up and those can be stressful enough, but, now you have to include all this other crap, too. Too much! Unload the heavy backpack for a while and take on the other chores. Believe me – that backpack will still be waiting for you when you come looking for it!

In the meantime, have the best possible Thanksgiving, hug that little girl every time you get a chance, and let her know you love her very much! You got this!!

TimSC posted 11/26/2019 10:53 AM

Bigger you know I value your opinion. Please hear me on this. I do not want to or intend to hurt my wife. I just can't be around her right now. Does that make sense?

It makes sense. She is the biggest trigger for you. You cannot look at her without all the things her and OM did jumping into your mind and remembering how she lied to you for so long.

She is the source of your pain. It makes total sense that you want physical separation to get some relief.

One member on another thread found that the bed he shared with his cheating wife was a trigger. So he took it out and made a bonfire of it.

Westway posted 11/26/2019 11:53 AM

Neanderthal know that I sympathize with you. I cannot move out until beginning of next year so I have to continue living in hell with my WW. I cannot wait to be away from her. I applaud you for being on your own and working through your pain without the constant reminder right there in front of you.

emergent8 posted 11/26/2019 15:18 PM

Is part of the separation a test for you? To see how you do without her? To see whether you can be happy without her? A couple of things you've said have made me wonder....

thatbpguy posted 11/26/2019 16:17 PM

I have always been a supporter of a separation after betrayal. Even if an in-house one. In cases of betrayal I think healing is usually best done alone. It's a time to feel the pain of betrayal, grieve the losses of it all and learn to heal from within ones self. It's a good call. Especially with the holidays upon us.

TimSC posted 12/8/2019 10:39 AM

N,

How are you doing?

I hope you find a way through the next month with as little pain as possible.

numb&dumb posted 12/9/2019 08:06 AM

I will continue to do IC. Focusing on how to better myself from this experience.

I think that is very healthy. You need to detach and figure out what that path looks like. [Insert metaphor about forest and trees here].

Besides taking a break from infidelity , if you are able, is good.

Good to hear you are on your way to moving on.

Neanderthal posted 12/13/2019 09:04 AM

Is part of the separation a test for you? To see how you do without her? To see whether you can be happy without her? A couple of things you've said have made me wonder....
The separation started as a means to protect myself. But yes, its turning into a trial period for me to move on.

I've stepped my anti-depressants down to pre-dday levels, and I'm starting to feel things again. Mostly sadness, but I'll take it.

I've been doing a lot of self reflection. Especially my behavior earlier on in our marriage. I am not happy with the man I was. There are plenty of issues I need to work on, before I am ever a safe partner for anyone again.

I do not blame myself for my wife's affair. But I certainly made it easy for her to justify it. I wasn't a good husband. I was selfish, I took her for granted, verbally abused her, cheated on her those years ago. None of those things give her the right to do what she did to me. But honestly she doesn't owe me anything anymore.

I am very grateful for this SI community. Especially the JFO forum. I needed this place, and thankful my own infidelity was overlooked long enough for me to get on my feet again. But I don't feel I belong in JFO. I probably belong in the Wayward Forum, but I cannot do that. Not because I'm avoiding doing the work to become a better person. I just cant share the same space with my wife in real life or in cyber space.

If I post from here on out. It'll probably be in the general or separation/divorce section. That way I'm not hiding behind some false truth of innocence.

I know me posting now seems counter to this, but lets just let this thread die. No real lessons to be learned for future BS's to benefit from anyways.

nekonamida posted 12/13/2019 09:28 AM

But I don't feel I belong in JFO. I probably belong in the Wayward Forum, but I cannot do that. Not because I'm avoiding doing the work to become a better person. I just cant share the same space with my wife in real life or in cyber space.

Neanderthal, if you belonged in the Wayward forum, you would be banned from posting here in JFO. It's that simple. A mod would have moved you.

I want to let you in on something I've learned from years of depression - it will make you want to take blame for things and turn bad things you've done into earth shattering unforgivable demons. NO ONE thinks that what you did is anywhere near on the same level as your WW. Not even her and since she was the one who dealt with the fall out, she gets to decide that better than anyone. Saying you're a WS too and should be treated one is the depression talking.

And you know what? It feels good in the moment to take responsibility when you're depressed because you can control you. If you take responsibility for something, it makes you FEEL like you're in control. If only you're better, stronger, smarter, then maybe the outcome will be different next time. It FEELS good to think that when you're depressed especially when what's depressing you was something outside of your control such as your WW's A. You may logically know that you are not to blame for your WW's A but it is as clear as day that your mind is running back over the entirety of your marriage on repeat looking for things you are to blame for and could have done differently implying that you share fault in the outcome you are dealing with today. Because on some level, that's comforting and familiar to you.

The reality of the situation is that you could have done everything right and still very likely would be here today dealing with the same situation and wondering what else you could have done differently. You're not the first BS who took their WS for granted to some extent. You're not the first BS to ever cross a boundary of some kind and immediately be reprimanded for it. You're not the first BS to do something that has hurt your WS and had to be worked through. Those are all normal parts of marriage.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't go to IC. You absolutely should but as you heal and get better, it's doubtful that you will still see yourself as this terrible husband whose WW had no problem justifying her A over. You will see yourself as a normal, imperfect man who learned from their mistakes and could use a tune up.

Notmine posted 12/14/2019 07:15 AM

I know I am going to be the unpopular girl, but there needs to be a little more accountability here.

I do not blame myself for my wife's affair. But I certainly made it easy for her to justify it. I wasn't a good husband. I was selfish, I took her for granted, verbally abused her, cheated on her those years ago. None of those things give her the right to do what she did to me. But honestly she doesn't owe me anything anymore.

In reading this, I realized that you are a former WS. I commend you on making the realization that you were not a good husband during your marriage, but I do not think it is fair to compare your transgressions as a cheater with those of your wife. It's like saying that, as an alcoholic (and I am one), just because I have a higher bottom, I am somehow better than another alcoholic. That is complete nonsense. You made your wife feel the same way that you are feeling and, by your own admission, verbally abused her on top of the cheating.

None of those things give her the right to do what she did to me.

To be honest, coming from a former wayward, this statement smacks of blameshifting. Did your wife need a reason to "justify" her behavior? It is not unusual for a BS to engage in a revenge affair or to engage in an affair of their own. Infidelity causes all sorts of irrational choices for a BS who is in pain. I am just not sure who the victim is here. YOU invited another person into your marriage first. Trust me, I do not think this justifies her actions, but it sure explains them. Did you ever go to IC to fix what was broken in you that caused you to cheat and verbally abuse your BW?

The 12 step program I'm familiar with is usually a life long process. Many of those in the meetings I've been to, take years to complete a few steps. I haven't comfortably identified my higher power. Those familiar with the 12 step process know how important that is.


This ^^^^^ is what is called a "reservation" in 12-step recovery. It is a way of avoiding acceptance that you have a disease and that it has made your life unmanageable. I am an alcoholic. I have 21 years of sobriety from alcohol. If you were drinking alcoholically during your marriage, and I am making that assumption because of the posts I have read, then your wife was suffering. It is awful chaos living with a using addict, period. It is NOT a requirement of 12-step recovery to "comfortably identify" a higher power. Many of us have not done so and are living happy sober lives. It CAN takes years to work some steps because we are tasked with making a fearless and "thorough" moral inventory. The point is that it is a journey to a better life, not a sprint. The process of making yourself a better person takes a long time. It is a lifetime process. It is also completely worth it.

As a BS, I understand the pain that you are going through. I hope that you find some serenity and happiness. I believe that your decisions are what you believe are best for your family. I also believe that your understanding of your need to get help to be a better partner for whoever you choose to be with is cause for celebration. I join with Bigger in encouraging you to engage in 12-step recovery. It truly works miracles.

HellFire posted 12/14/2019 07:47 AM

You were swingers, you both went to a swingers party. The deal was, the lights went out, everyone got naked, and sex was going to happen. And it did. So I guess I'm not understanding how this is cheating. If I took my husband to such a party, I wouldn't be surprised that he participated. Didn't she participate? The details are a little fuzzy.

66charger posted 12/14/2019 11:40 AM

I know I am going to be the unpopular girl, but there needs to be a little more accountability here.

This is not only unpopular but it is so far from the truth that it borders on ignorance. I write this because I regrettably posted the same thing...in ignorance

This man has taken on more "accountability" than any BS who ever posted.

And most of it is unwarranted.

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