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When OW is your sister-in-law...

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Flnightmare posted 11/3/2019 02:32 AM

Monday will be 3 weeks since dday.

I am confused, gutted, crushed...I feel like a bomb has been dropped on my entire world.

Day was 3 days into a 9 day Florida vacation with my in-laws, wh’s brother and wife, our young teen child, and their toddler.

After a day of drinking in the pool...wh, sil, bil... things got a little out of hand. The drinking was excessive. I was focused on keeping my child and the toddler entertained and safe and away from the “party.”

Earlier wh had hurt me by sharing a conversation with sil that pressed a sore spot with me, so I had gone in to shower and attend to the kids.

Mil and Fil noticed things were getting a little
“Close”’and mil sent fil out to chaperone. However, he did not stay long. He was in the middle of manning the grill.

This resulted in my wh and sil in compromising positions alone in the pool. At one point, the point in which I “caught” them, sil had her legs wrapped around wh’s waist with her back to the side of the pool. One of each of their hands were visible. The other was not. When wh saw me he jumped out of the pool and I noticed he was erect.

In that moment I was destroyed.

I know wh was way beyond drunk.
So was sil.
I have no idea what took place under the water.
I do know he was obviously sexually aroused.
The earlier conversation hurt me deeply. Sober he would have known this.
Wh has not been an emotionally responsive spouse in years.
To protect my child I resisted then urge to fly home.
When I confronted wh the next day he claims to not remember.
He apologized but did not show remorse.
He shut down and clammed up the rest of the trip.
The issue was never confronted with sil or in laws.

Since this, at the 2 week mark, a huge fight took place. He had ignored me and the issue since dday. Ignored me crying, never initiated or really participated in a conversation about the events.

At that 2 week mark we had a huge fight. I asked what he had done to try to improve this. Nothing. He had not even done a Google search. I told him that spoke volumes.

After this very rage filled argument he made himself an ic appointment and started googling. He has claimed to start to realize he is emotionally abusive by refusing to be emotionally supportive in all situations not just this one.

I believe that this was not a one time deal. However, I have no proof. Just a gut feeling. Maybe with her, but in general I have doubts. He travels for work, so he could be doing anything. He had an EA in 2007.

Here is where I am stuck...
1. When he says things like, “If I had an erection...” I see that as an attempt to minimize. It makes it sound like I could be lying to him about what I saw? I did take a picture of him in this position because I knew he would deny it.

2. Am I over reacting? Does this even make him a cheater? When I consider the minimum that occurred... his penis against her vagina to the point of arousal for at least him, it sure feels like a betrayal to me.

3. Should I confront Sil? What would I even say?

4. Why didn’t I stop him right then and there and pull him inside and make him go to bed? My heart tells me I didn’t because I was hurt from their earlier conversation and was trying to keep the kids occupied.

5. If reconciliation was to occur, how do I spend the rest of my life across the Thanksgiving table from her?

6. Wh claims to not remember these incidents. I don’t know how to move past something I don’t know the full extent of. Not know what was happening under the water is driving me insane.

Thank you for taking time to read and to help me gather my thoughts. I have read so much of this forum in the last three weeks. You are all amazing.


[This message edited by Flnightmare at 2:39 AM, November 3rd (Sunday)]

Odonna posted 11/3/2019 02:51 AM

Sweet Girl,

You did nothing wrong. And by no means “rugsweep” any of this.

Confront your WH and insist he get IC to explore WHY he would make such horrid choices. Your FIL and MIL saw the build-up so tell them honestly what transpired. Talk to your BIL one on one so that he is part of your wall of defense here.

NEVER EVER RUG SWEEP! It will kill you emotionally. With your husband’s support confront your SIL. No clue whether this was her or your husband's doing, but it has to be addressed head on. Maybe you will have to divvy up family events to never see each other again. But deal with it!

[This message edited by Odonna at 2:53 AM, November 3rd (Sunday)]

Dragonfly123 posted 11/3/2019 03:16 AM

I’m so sorry you are here.

1) yes he’s minimising, don’t let him gaslight you, you KNOW what you saw, he needs to own that.

2) yes, it makes him a cheater, the whole situation is most def a betrayal, I’m concerned about this conversation between sil and him before hand, can you elaborate as it clearly upset you?

3) yes confront her, make it clear what you saw, what’s her view of this incident?

4) this is not on you, it’s his crappy boundaries, you shouldn’t have to be the marriage police, he should be able to stop getting into situations with his sister in law, it’s HIGHLY concerning that this happened under the noses of your entire family, strikes me as very brazen.

5) you don’t have to, not now this level of trust has been broken.

6) look I have problems with playing the drunk card, but purely from my own experience of knowing exactly what I’d done the next day. But even if we concede that he doesn’t remember he has an absolute duty to do all he can to unpick this incident and help you move forward and that’s something you’re not seeing from him.

Please be wary. Read ‘not just friends’ and ‘how to help your spouse heal from your affair’ to gather more information and be able to pass to him. Particularly ‘not just friends’ as this book talks about boundary crossing. Talk to your BIL as two pairs of eyes on this is important.

Please don’t minimise it or rug sweep this. I wish so much I’d been harder on my WH when he first showed boundary crossing behaviours.

Huge hugs.

[This message edited by Dragonfly123 at 3:18 AM, November 3rd (Sunday)]

Flnightmare posted 11/3/2019 03:35 AM

Thank you all so much!

I was abandoned by my mother when I was younger. Before that she allowed some pretty awful things to happen to me. My father is very hands off and doesn’t take much interest in me. For instance, not coming to Thanksgiving if my brother won’t be there. Those are my only two relatives on my side.

I have a lot of pain over this. Wh has not been emotionally supportive of this. In fact, he often uses it as an excuse to convince me I ask too much of him because of my issues.

Sil’s father is a jerk, but he is still around. She has sisters, a mom, aunts, a grandma, etc. I understand her relationship is hard with her dad. I get that it is painful to her. She began talking about it and wh was very empathetic, engaged her in a lengthy conversation about it, and showed her more understanding and concern than he has ever shown me.

That is what hurt me.

Flnightmare posted 11/3/2019 03:41 AM

I have not spoken to sil or any other relative about this.

Honestly, I was just trying to survive the week in the best way I could for my child.

I do have a sense that she remembers something based on her vibe towards me while there. Or maybe she was picking up on my attitude towards her.

Nobody in the family has spoken about it since.

Here is where I am hesitating...

I have no family to offer my children. Just me. If we divorce there will be no family holidays with mom. I just don’t have a family.

Wh’s family is big and fills that hole for the kids. BIL and Sil are the favored ones in the family. If this comes to a head or a confrontation with the family, I am fearful of how that will effect the only family my kids have. I don’t want them to have that taken from them.

Marz posted 11/3/2019 03:54 AM

Sorry but alcohol is no excuse.

Marz posted 11/3/2019 03:59 AM

Wh’s family is big and fills that hole for the kids. BIL and Sil are the favored ones in the family. If this comes to a head or a confrontation with the family, I am fearful of how that will effect the only family my kids have. I don’t want them to have that taken from them.

You are the biggest part of your kids life. Your welfare is paramount. Your demeanor/attitude will affect your kids more.

Hold your H and SIL accountable or you'll keep yourself hostage long term.

Wake up

steadychevy posted 11/3/2019 04:35 AM

Where was BIL when this was going on, Flnightmare?

MIL and FIL were aware that something inappropriate was happening that needed chaperoning. Now there is no mention by anyone. Sounds like a family with the attitude of just ignore it and it will all go away.

Your WH had an EA that you know about, maybe more. You suspect more, maybe with her.

IMO you aren't over reacting. I suspect your gut has been telling you something for some time and this confirmed the possibility.

Don't rugsweep or allow rugsweeping.

It also sounds like some gaslighting with statements like "if I had an erection...". He's implying that you are imagining it all.

As has been said, this is not on you. It's 100% on him. It's not up to you to drag him out of every inappropriate situation he's in. It's up to him not to get into those situations.

I've been drunk, very drunk. I've had terrible hangovers. All decades ago except right after DDay1. Sure there is gaps in my memory. However, I remember a lot too. Some of it quite embarrassing. I question his inability to remember this. Being drunk isn't a good defense against legal charges. It's not a good defense in marital ones either.

annb posted 11/3/2019 06:23 AM

Tell your bil what you saw.

Don't rugsweep this.

If your husband already had one EA and did this in front of his family, I'd ask him to take a polygraph since he travels. It seems a bit too easy for him.

Cooley2here posted 11/3/2019 06:54 AM

If your husband can show empathy to other people, including your sister-in-law, but he does not to you, then it’s a power-play. I’m guessing this has been a very slow process between the two of you where he has enjoyed keeping you at arms length because it gives him all the power. Family dynamics are so convoluted that it’s difficult for those of us reading what posters write to understand. Please read about family systems. There are books about the imbalance between husband and wife that causes one person to feel unappreciated. You need to jerk a knot in your husband and force him into some therapy. Once he’s gotten some therapy under his belt then the two of you need to go to a marriage counselor who understands this. In the meantime, confront the family with what you know. Tell everyone. Then get yourself to counseling and find friends and let them be your family. You don’t need one when you and your husband are not on equal footing with his siblings. That just says his family is toxic and you don’t need that. It sounds like your sense of self-worth is very low. You might have come into the marriage feeling that way and your husband took advantage of it so he has the power. Take it back. Take your power back.

Flnightmare posted 11/3/2019 06:57 AM

I am so thankful I got over my fear and posted here.

I start IC on Tuesday.

I told wh that I refuse to rug sweep any of this. I let him know of the damage and the work it would take. Reminding him that the first time I fell in love with him I was given the best of him. I have now seen the worst of him. Falling in love a second time will be a long road.

I told him I will not even consider mc until I see consistent and significant changes in him over a long period of time. I also reminded him I was not promising to stay that long and could not guarantee my feelings over time.

I do know I am not in the correct mental space to make any major decisions at this time. Functioning is hard, breathing is hard, and I am hanging on by a thread.

I will not allow him to use being drunk as an excuse. He is generally not a drinker, but once or twice a year drinks and doesn’t have a stopping point. I have discussed this with him in the past and he blew me off repeatedly about it.

One condition of any reconciliation, if we get that far, will be no alcohol ever again. Period.

I have also made it clear that I will never be intimate with him again without a full STD check. Physical and blood.

Question... if he does this and I see the results on the online portal from our doctor to verify, so I still need to be checked myself?

I turn 45 in a little over a week and I have promised myself that I am no longer living without or less. IC will address childhood trauma and trauma for this. I will be a better me. I will value myself. To win me back will difficult, but regardless of the outcome I will know my worth and accept nothing less.

[This message edited by Flnightmare at 6:59 AM, November 3rd (Sunday)]

Robert22205https posted 11/3/2019 07:10 AM

Did you tell her husband?

Flnightmare posted 11/3/2019 07:28 AM

I have not told her husband, my wh’s Brother. He was there. He was the third drunk person in the scenario. He saw what I saw, well, except for the erection. I am not certain anyone but me saw that.

I do not want to speak to him or my sil until I have spoken to my ic.

There will need to be a discussion and most likely I will insist it it is the 4 of us together.

There are 3 children involved in this (our 2, their 1, mine are teens). I want to make sure that however this is handled has their best interests at heart.

fareast posted 11/3/2019 07:47 AM

Flnightmare:

Sorry you find yourself here, but you will receive good support. Read in the healing library. Most importantly take care of yourself. Eat healthy, exercise, and get plenty of sleep, with aids if necessary. The attitude you have expressed is excellent and what will get you through this whatever you ultimately decide to do, R or D. You are correct. Always value yourself. Know your own worth and accept nothing less. You are the prize. Good luck.

Marz posted 11/3/2019 07:56 AM

Hmmmm, good bet the IC advice will be a rugsweep. Hope you have a good one.

My advice is to use your common sense. IC's and MC's are not gods and from what I've seen you might have a 50/50 chance of getting a decent one.

Hiding these things can enable. Beware

steadychevy posted 11/3/2019 08:05 AM

You seem to have a very good grasp of what you need to do, Flnightmare.

You're right that you shouldn't make any life altering decisions when emotional. Take time to watch and observe. Actions speak louder than words.

You're right to not go to MC. A lot has to happen before that becomes a possibility. Good that you're getting IC for yourself.

I suggest you do get a full panel of STD tests. You've been suspicious of him over time so there can be something from before. I see that you will see the results of his tests. That is good. Maybe that means you won't need to go through the tests yourself. Maybe others with more knowledge than I can offer an opinion.

Take care of yourself. Get your sleep and if need be get a sleep aid from your doctor.

I suggest you see a lawyer and find out your rights through the law. You may not do anything with it but you have indicated that you don't know if you can get past this. Knowledge is power.

Good luck to you and I'm so sorry you're dealing with this again.

cocoplus5nuts posted 11/3/2019 08:09 AM

You are the biggest part of your kids life. Your welfare is paramount. Your demeanor/attitude will affect your kids more.

Hold your H and SIL accountable or you'll keep yourself hostage long term.


This ^^^^^^


I'm a little confused. Are you saying your BIL was in the pool watching what was going on between his wife and his brother and did nothing? Was he encouraging/enjoying it? Or, was he so drunk that he didn't understand what was happening?

I would talk to your BIL. Tell him the entire thing was unacceptable and ask WTH he was doing. I would also confront your SIL. Normally, I would advise against engaging with the OP, but in this case, she's family. You can't just ignore her.

I would also talk to FIL and MIL. Tell them what you saw and how much you were hurt by it. That is the reason you will not be able to attend any more family gatherings with BIL and SIL. If they are decent people, they will understand. If they don't understand, they aren't people to have in your life.

cocoplus5nuts posted 11/3/2019 08:11 AM

Better yet, your CH should talk to his parents with you present to make sure he's honest. That will show where his main support and loyalty lie, with you.

Flnightmare posted 11/3/2019 08:40 AM

BIL was in the pool/on the pool deck during this time. He was very intoxicated as well.

BIL and SIL are much younger than us. Very immature and selfish. I can’t say for sure what he was doing or how aware he was of the events.

Based on SIL’s behavior around me the rest of the trip she either has some idea of what she was a part of or was very in tune to the vibe I was giving her.

Another dynamic to all of this is FIL’s health. He has suffered greatly this past year and is not whole. Going into this trip we all were wanting to make it a good experience for him out of fear that it will be the last. Out of love and respect for him and my mil, and the children present, I sacrificed my feelings and just got through the week.

[This message edited by Flnightmare at 8:42 AM, November 3rd (Sunday)]

Buster123 posted 11/3/2019 10:39 AM

Listen I'm sorry you're here, you said you took a picture of what you saw at the pool (great move btw), I would contact your SIL first and tell her your WH confessed but that you need to hear your side of the story, tell her you took "several pictures" of them at the pool, and that you will send them to BIL and the family if she's not honest, if she refuses to tell, send her the pic and tell her "this is just one of many I will be sending BIL and the family" if you don't tell me your version of the whole story right now.

Yes please get tested for STDs, he travels for work and he's cheated on you before, sounds like a SERIAL cheater to me, I mean if he's willing to cheat on you in the presence of the entire family and betray his own brother, imagine when nobody's watching him or while out of town.

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