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Stuck with denial and justification

Nilesh posted 11/19/2019 09:08 AM

Hi. Been married for 18 years, with 2 sons who are 15 and 12. My wife's affair began about 5 years ago. It then seemed to be a harmless friendship culminating into a work relationship. However, my guards were up due to the blurring boundaries. Over the next 12 months & on 2 occasions, came across a few messages sent by my wife - some unusual and some outright suggestive. Twice over, had to involve both sides parents to put an end to the affair. In each of the occasions, her reaction ranged from complete denial to partial guilt and regret to counter allegations. But she had to finally promise No Contact. Over the next few months, she drifted away emotionally, became fiercely selfish, detached and resisted (though didn't deny altogether) a physical relationship. This though was interspersed with family and couple holidays and celebrations etc so I took it as a passing phase. Her pulling back made me act needy - and now I infer ours turned into a co dependent relationship.
The D Day was 4 months ago and I discovered that she had been frequently talking / chatting / meeting for about 12 months (or maybe more). She kept denying it until confronted with evidence (phone recording). Apparently, she had been acting very needy with this guy.
Over the few months since then, she has been defensive & evasive and has counter accused me for not being there for her and which drove her into an emotional connect with OP (but with no physical relationship or marital aspiration, she claims). She claims to be an open minded woman who seeks male companionships over female friends. She also said that she wasn't sure if she cud and wud disconnect with the OP completely, inspite of the word given to her father.
45 days after D Day, I decided to move out to my parents house next door since instead of regret and remorse, she continued to level accusations of marital rape, being narrow minded and a control freak etc. I did the pick me dance for a month but that only inflated her ego. Counselling didn't help since she managed to hijack the dialogue through counter accusations. For a brief period, I withdrew all conditions with the thought that we cud try to build an understanding, but only to find her imposing conditions on me. That's when the counsellor realised what she was upto.
I am currently doing the 180 (since 3 weeks). She lives with one son (other is at boarding school) with me putting up with parents next door. In the mean time, the family and the elder son (who is 15) has tried to talk sense into her but she says she can take me back but only as a friend - no interference with her life and decisions forever, no physical relationship until she is comfortable. She has also hinted that divorce wud not come about easily. She perhaps isnt looking at openly moving in with OP coz of family & societal norms.
I have held firm and made it clear that if I do come back, it's as a husband and with clear boundaries defined and commitments made from her side. There is a logjam since 4 months now and almost zero contact between us over the last 3 weeks.
The fact that it's a third occurrence and it went underground and deepened after the 2nd, has emboldened her and she has maybe little realisation of how cruel, unkind and unreasonable she is being. Her family or my family aren't managing to talk her out of it. She is in an absolutely rebel mode and refuses to talk to anyone. For all I know, she maybe in continuous dialogue with the OP.
I am caught between calling it Quits (which is a tumultuous journey legally and emotionally) or waiting some more (for her to come out of the affair fog). At stake is a 18 year relationship, 13 of which were good (if not great). And yes, 2 sons who are of impressionable age. Very importantly, I still love her and wud want her back but feel extremely insecure. She may never be able to restore the fabric or the trust of marriage.
Should I wait some more for her to come out of the affair fog? What can I do to help with that process? Or shd I give her a time ultimatum? Or shd I just walk out since it's been the 3rd time? It's the battle between patience / persistence on one side and boldness /decisiveness on the other.

MrCleanSlate posted 11/19/2019 09:50 AM


I'm a wayward, but i hope you don't mind my responding.

Was this an arranged Marriage, and whose family had the higher status? What were your ages when you got married?

She has checked out of the marriage. It sounds like she is willing to re-enter but in appearances only. From what you wrote is sounds like you would take her back, but if she is not wanting to reconcile then it will not work and you will become bitter.

Is her family not taking issue with the OM and his family?

Nilesh posted 11/19/2019 10:00 AM

Mr. CleanSlate,
Your queries are quite apt. I will answer them right away.
Yes, it was an arranged marriage but with both of us having a say in the matter. Both families have good status be it financially or social standing. However if I were to peg one higher than the other, the girls family may be marginally higher.
We were 24 and 23 when we got married (then the usual age for marriage in our community). And both of us are well educated with masters degrees to our credit. She didn't work in the first 10 years due to family and kids but she has been very ambitious otherwise.
Her family is trying to make her understand but to no avail. They are with me on the matter but find themselves helpless. It hasn't been taken with the OPs family as yet. Wud that help?
She is delusional and has negative things to say for all 18 years of our married life. And behaves like a different person altogether. I understand that's the consequence of affair fog. What can I do tto get her out?

tushnurse posted 11/19/2019 10:22 AM

Welcome Nilesh to the best club you never wanted to join.
Your Wife has checked out and doesn't care evidently what others think and in her mind has rewritten the marital history to justify her choices.

That does not mean it's ok.

I am an old time here and have seen many situations with attempting to give more time, etc. The one thing that I know for sure is you cannot force someone to do something they do not want or are not interested in doing. PERIOD.

What you can do is be very clear with her on what you are willing and unwilling to accept. In this case I would urge you to file for D. You children need to see that her behavior is unacceptable, and not what an M should be. Children repeat what is modeled for them behavior wise, and as a parent the last thing I wanted for my kids was to be in my shoes when Dday and the A happened.

You can show your children that it is acceptable to demand the respect you deserve, and nothing less. This at minimum gets YOU out of infidelity, which will also help you find yourself again. Right now you have gone from the pick me dance, to Limbo that is somewhat beneficial for her, because she has zero accountability for her actions.

See an attorney, draw up a temporary parenting plan. Stick to it. Document every time she neglects her duties as a mother.
Do not engage in any conversation with her unless it has to do with kids or finances. You stop doing anything for her that you would normally do, be it laundry, cooking, changing oil or upkeep on her vehicle. She needs to understand that it is NOT all fantasy, and that she still has responsibilities, this includes her financial responsiblities, no more paying any of her bills. Split the financial assests get your own bank account, make sure your paycheck is going there, and that she has zero access to it.

I would honestly be surprised to see her show any remorse or change her ways, as it seems she has exited the relationship already. However... you need to protect yourself financially and mentally.

MrCleanSlate posted 11/19/2019 10:25 AM


So with both families being close in status then one can see why her parents are not forcing the issue too strongly, except that it could be seen as a real problem to her family should her infidelity become known. I'm a bit surprised that no one has confronted the OM's family as yet...

That being said, if she is truly unhappy and is not wanting to fix things between you two, what is the point? You can get the families to force her back. She will be unhappy. You will be unhappy and then what?

Buster123 posted 11/19/2019 10:54 AM

Listin your WW is a SERIAL CHEATER, she doesn't want to have sex with you, please get tested for STDs and dump this proven cheater and liar, life's too short and you deserve so much better, don't give her any ultimatums, she's a grown woman, man up and file for D and have her served without warning, if D papers don't shock her back to reality, then nothing will, D takes a long time and can be stopped if she comes around,ends her A, shows true remorse, sends an NC FOREVER text to OM, short and to the point (no sweet goodbyes), offers full on demand access to her phone and all electronic devices FOREVER, gets tested for STDS, agrees to sign a postnuptial agreement in your favor in case she cheats again (no alimony and she doesn't touch your retirement), commits to IC to find out her "whys", maybe then should you just consider offering her the gift of R, or NOT ! if she refuses to do all of the above, just let D run its course and get out of infidelity. I honestly just recommend you file for D and don't look back, serial cheaters make R incredibly difficult and you don't even have a remorseful WW to work with, the writing is on the wall.

cocoplus5nuts posted 11/19/2019 14:24 PM

What can I do tto get her out?

Stop trying to get her out. Get yourself out. Divorce her!

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