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Emotions all over the place

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skeetermooch posted 12/17/2019 14:57 PM

I felt good this morning after my work out and now I'm just really sad.

I didn't think my husband was capable of any of this. It is so incredibly shocking that he could even do half of what he's done.

The man I truly believed was my fierce protector and best friend, not only cheated and cheated in ways I could not have fathomed, for our entire marriage, he engaged in lies, gas lighting , shaming and blaming me to accomplish it. He let me exist in a constant state of insecurity and confusion while we were together.

He made me feel bad for not doing the right things sexually when in reality he was getting off with other people every week (and what I did was totally great before he started cheating). He made me feel like a sex addict for wanting to have sex with him a few times a week. He'd suggest certain outfits and then tell me not to wear them when the time came. It "wasn't organic" if anything was planned or discussed. (I guess rolling up to a massage parlor and ordering off the menu has way more flow.)

Then when he got caught he wouldn't help me. That was the final shock. My best friend refused to help me out of this devastating pain. Instead he lied, gas lit, blame shifted and raged while I hyperventilated and sobbed for months.

And here I am months later and he still won't help me. How is this even possible?

DashboardMadonna posted 12/17/2019 15:10 PM

Hey I literally feel your pain and unfortunately, no these men lack empathy and repulsed by intimacy. Their shame takes the lead, while internally blaming you for playing the mother. They resent and the cycle continues...mysogynists that punish women with their dicks. When you read the psychology, it ALMOST becomes comical, because it's so well-read.

Freud was spot on with these narcs and their madonna-whore complex... these characters act it out in a very literal sense.

crazyblindsided posted 12/17/2019 15:20 PM

(((skeetermooch))) I have been feeling the same way lately and I am trying not to be hard on myself. I think the worst part of all of this is how it just exposes all my traumatic issues of abandonment and feeling rejected.

The abuse enacted by by my STBX over the years has left me a shell of a person. It is no wonder I feel so lost even in separation. For some reason my trauma will not let up. My days are not getting easier, in fact most days I feel I am struggling to stay afloat and the sickest part of it all is that I think this is exactly where my STBX wants me to be

The holidays are so tough right now seeing happy couples or families. I can muster happiness for maybe a couple of minutes.

Just so sorry you are in this place too. I crave peace, happiness and stability.

skeetermooch posted 12/17/2019 15:30 PM

Freud was spot on with these narcs and their madonna-whore complex... these characters act it out in a very literal sense.

Maybe reading up on this will help. So much duality and dissonance - proclaiming to the world how wonderful I was and how ecstatic he was about marriage and then when no one was looking it's like he had a voodoo doll of me that he was stabbing with pins and stomping on.

The level of rage he must have for me is impossible to comprehend. I know I did nothing to deserve it but it's still so personal for me.

He's definitely got intense mommy issues and I'm sure that's the source of his rage but at nearly 50 he should fucking know this and have worked through it some.

skeetermooch posted 12/17/2019 15:33 PM

I am struggling to stay afloat and the sickest part of it all is that I think this is exactly where my STBX wants me to be

I know that's where my STBX wants me - he only feels secure when I'm a hot mess - of course, then he can justify cheating bc his wife is a hot mess - not sexy. When I'm starting to look okay he freaks the fuck out. Then Mr. Charming shows up.

Don't be hard on yourself - this is some next level mind-fuckery. Normal humans aren't built for this kind of sustained trauma. It' s going to take us a minute, but we are going to get there. I'll be damned if this assclown is what takes me down.

ShatteredSakura posted 12/17/2019 16:02 PM

They resent and the cycle continues...mysogynists that punish women with their dicks.

Almost everything ((skeetermooch)) wrote (and has written that I've read) sounds like the gender-bending splitting image of my WW [minus the hookers], does that make her a misandrist? lol

The man I truly believed was my fierce protector and best friend, not only cheated and cheated in ways I could not have fathomed, for our entire marriage, he engaged in lies, gas lighting , shaming and blaming me to accomplish it. He let me exist in a constant state of insecurity and confusion while we were together.

....

Then when he got caught he wouldn't help me. That was the final shock. My best friend refused to help me out of this devastating pain. Instead he lied, gas lit, blame shifted and raged while I hyperventilated and sobbed for months.

This ^^ times a thousand...omg I know exactly what you mean skeetermooch. My WW really is/was my best friend...who is just being so cruel to me and it is so tough to reconcile in your mind that THAT person is capable of doing ANY of it. It's so mind blowing. I have my moments of anger, but most of my emotions are a (seemingly) endless field of sadness. And my supposed "best friend", when I try to NC because she won't stop doing what caused us to be in this position, she gets angry at me. Either you or someone else in another thread said it well - that when she doesn't want to talk to me, it's all acceptable and I'm supposed to take it, but when she wants something I better be at her beck and call despite all the cruel things she's done to me.

We're both introverted people, and I feel like I put all my eggs in one basket (or bet on the wrong race horse). Almost all the new friends/acquaintances I've met since being with her are always mutual, because I basically didn't go out without her. She was the person I wanted to spend my time with, not other people.

She used that excuse (lack of friends) to hold onto her ex-BF as "just a friend". She claimed she couldn't let him go because she didn't have many other close people in her life...boy was I dumb person in retrospect.

He made me feel bad for not doing the right things sexually when in reality he was getting off with other people every week (and what I did was totally great before he started cheating). He made me feel like a sex addict for wanting to have sex with him a few times a week. He'd suggest certain outfits and then tell me not to wear them when the time came. It "wasn't organic" if anything was planned or discussed. (I guess rolling up to a massage parlor and ordering off the menu has way more flow.)

I'm the opposite...it's good when a plan comes together! lol!

What's interesting is I'd bet my WW would say I made her feel bad w.r.t. to sex. She kind of is like an addict, she's always stressed with her mother, work, life, and uses it as a stress relief (she's admitted as much). Like there'd be times she'd moan it's been "sooo looong" and in actuality we had sex twice in a 24 hour window.

And I'll admit, a lot of it was selfish sex revolving around her. I'd be putting all this effort in and she's literally laying there not touching me sometimes. She even admitted in the last 6 months before separating she didn't want to touch me much, but she sure wanted my little guy. It took us two years to add a new position to our repertoire, if you will. Very vanilla, but very frequent.

You can guess it didn't take her that long to do it with the AP! I can count on one hand how many times she did oral (I really wanted to give and receive but she never liked it much) in our time together. She did it with the AP at least once. Stuff I really coveted because of the infrequency, she gave to this douchebag.

And what more, I was OK with our sex life. I was OK with vanilla. I just wanted to be with her. I wanted to change it up at times and try something new at least once. I was always touching her, giving backrubs, but I wanted to be touched too. I'm a big believer of reciprocation...and if you want something, give a little first.

Sorry, this got a little ranty. Im starting to see red. All I wanted was to live a nice quiet life, with the person I love, spend time with her, make love to her, do the other things I love in life, and just be happy. And instead I got all this drama, all this insecurity, and all this pain. I've literally asked this question to her: "Why can't we just be chill?" but no, it was never good enough and she had her double life and it won out in the end, leaving bodies in it's wake.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 4:10 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)]

ChewedMeUp posted 12/17/2019 16:27 PM

I’m far enough out these days that I can say it does get better.

Now, that doesn’t mean you’ll get answers. But eventually, as you work at detaching, the fucked up, Olympic-level brain contortions to try to wrap your mind around “how could they,” well that shit just doesn’t matter, and it’s exhausting to boot, and eventually, that dreaded evil word time, eventually you start accepting that it really doesn’t matter in the end.

Slowly, so painfully slowly, one death-grip finger at a time, you start letting go. And then some day, after barely two words to your ex in months, you’ll get a random text about “how 2 pay DD colluge billz?” and for 30 seconds you’ll be irritable about good god, do I always have to deal with everything, and it’ll suddenly hit you that what you’re irritated about is the interruption to your life and peace. And after that 30 seconds of irritation that it takes to respond, you’ll suddenly be dumbfounded with how on earth you ever married this person in the first place, and you’ll laugh with relief that you only ever have to deal with them every couple of months, maybe. And you’ll realize that all that pain and mind-bending around “how” really wasn’t ever something that was your circus to worry about in the first place, and thank goodness you’re well and truly detached. And that moment, right there, is worth its weight in gold.

Or at least, that’s been my experience.

skeetermooch posted 12/17/2019 21:57 PM

But eventually, as you work at detaching, the fucked up, Olympic-level brain contortions to try to wrap your mind around “how could they,” well that shit just doesn’t matter

That sounds heavenly. It is Olympic level - absolutely.

skeetermooch posted 12/17/2019 22:05 PM

when I try to NC because she won't stop doing what caused us to be in this position, she gets angry at me.

Ah Sakura, she really sounds like the most selfish, shallow human on earth. She honestly sounds like a trash narc person - If you're not useful to her, catering to her, she's got no use for you.

I kinda hate her.

I'm an introvert too and my STBX, while not an introvert, preferred my company - even if we went to a party, he stuck by my side. We had so many shared friends and couple friends and yeah, pretty sure I'm going to lose most of them in the divorce because he's got way more social capital but I'm okay with that.

I know what you mean about being okay with the sex even though it might not have been everything you'd dreamed of - because you loved her and you were willing to take her as is. But these narcs use sex in messed up ways. They are never going to be happy with sex based on love and intimacy - they need variety, new sources of adulation and excitement, and triangles - oh how they love triangles.

[This message edited by skeetermooch at 10:06 PM, December 17th (Tuesday)]

crazyblindsided posted 12/17/2019 22:13 PM

But these narcs use sex in messed up ways. They are never going to be happy with sex based on love and intimacy - they need variety, new sources of adulation and excitement, and triangles - oh how they love triangles.

Interesting what you wrote was the dynamic in my M too. My STBX blames me for my loss of interest in sex with him, but it was most likely due to the 'kind' of sex we were having. It felt empty and eventually triggered my childhood abuse.

Maudlin posted 12/18/2019 01:19 AM


I didn't think my husband was capable of any of this. It is so incredibly shocking that he could even do half of what he's done.

The man I truly believed was my fierce protector and best friend, not only cheated and cheated in ways I could not have fathomed, for our entire marriage, he engaged in lies, gas lighting , shaming and blaming me to accomplish it. He let me exist in a constant state of insecurity and confusion while we were together.

I hear you, it is devastating.

I’m not particularly needy, I’m self sufficient, but I truly thought we were a team. I truly thought I was not the only one who realized marriage had ups and downs and so on. I was wrong.

Mine was/is hookers too. I’m coming to accept a deep misogyny and narcissism is what is at play here. We have daughters, so...yeah. That’s a kick in the teeth (and I can just hear him turning apoplectic I’d question his love for his daughters...despite the fact that after this they question his). His whole attitude towards keeping me as wife so I can play house like always while he does whatever- he really thought that would be great, for both of us. Because what he thinks is best must naturally be best, why would what I think even matter?? Just the absurdity and narcissism in that assumption-! He truly does not see women as people, not me and not his line of hookers. Just tools for his needs and pleasure.

We are better off without them. They will never realize, they truly cannot, what they are and what they have done. They aren’t capable. I’m running as fast and as far as I can from him.

ShatteredSakura posted 12/18/2019 09:12 AM

Ah Sakura, she really sounds like the most selfish, shallow human on earth. She honestly sounds like a trash narc person - If you're not useful to her, catering to her, she's got no use for you.

I know people like to throw out the narcissist label, but I think it's more complicated with WW. I'm not defending her but it's just I want to try to understand her better (maybe I never will).

I feel like she definitely hits the "low empathy" mark though. More times I can count I've asked her what she would do in my position and it's always "I would have left a long time ago" or "I wouldn't put up with it". I know she feels guilt, because it causes her stress but she's unwilling or unable to do something about it (except to discard me OR I guess, just expected me to get up and leave so she didn't have to).

It's like the meme about sending people "thoughts and prayers" but it's all you do, so you're not actually doing anything, lol.

She has little discipline or willpower - like an addiction - and says she can't just stop and that she's tried really hard (IMO going days NC with AP, and one time, a full month, doesn't really feel like trying...). It makes me wonder if she ever actually loved me, let alone on the same level. Maybe loved the things I did for her, but not me as a person. She vehemently denies that, but actions speak louder than words.

I may be wrong, but in my opinion if you have high empathy and you know your actions are causing harm to someone you love, that empathy you have should be a major force in changing your actions, right? Addictions may make that seemingly insurmountable though, and I can get that (plenty of good people with drug addictions who are indirectly hurting their families). She knows she messed up, but it's easier "just starting over" (she's literally said this to me); easier to run away than try and fix things. I miss her, I pine for her...when I should be hating her, but I feel like I can't. I feel like my hate gland blew out.

And like I said in another thread and touched on here, the Monday after Thanksgiving while I was out shoveling, she reached out with "can we talk?" and it went unanswered for hours. This was after NC for a week, and that text was followed up with increasingly angrier texts. Other times if I didn't answer it would "fine, dont talk to me!"...acting out. And now two-and-a-half weeks later (and one week after last seeing her...when I left at 2am because she rejected me, *I* didn't bother talking to her for a week), she's the one largely ignoring me and I feel the opposite of anger - I just feel sad. And I actually had a _good_ reason to contact her! Our home (she's still on the lease) had some water damage and I had to deal with cleanup, workmen, etc and I actually asked for help...she didn't bother. She didn't even acknowledge it until a day later (the day of, late at night I got was "sorry, I wasn't looking at my phone all day"...didn't even reply to anything I said -- I might add that this woman is usually glued to her phone)

If I did that to her, omg the blowup she would have. The accusations of me not caring, not helping her...


I know what you mean about being okay with the sex even though it might not have been everything you'd dreamed of - because you loved her and you were willing to take her as is.

TBH, I don't get why people make such a big deal over sex. It's so intoxicating to people, and I'm standing here thinking there's far more to life than sex. The cuddling, the companionship, feeling loved/giving love, the conversations...all of those gave more meaning to my life than the mechanical act. I wish those things made WW feel as good as the act did.

But these narcs use sex in messed up ways. They are never going to be happy with sex based on love and intimacy - they need variety, new sources of adulation and excitement, and triangles - oh how they love triangles.

WW didn't need variety (as I mentioned) lol. Her using it for stress relief though wasn't that good IMO, it usually didn't last (you know how many times we'd have a wonderful morning and hours later..."I feel depressed", it was exhausting). There were deeper, underlying issues and all the sex in the world wouldn't make them go away. It hurts to think about time to time because I know now when she is really stressed she's getting it on with the AP like a rabbit I'm sure.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 9:36 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)]

ShatteredSakura posted 12/18/2019 09:22 AM

I'm an introvert too and my STBX, while not an introvert, preferred my company - even if we went to a party, he stuck by my side. We had so many shared friends and couple friends and yeah, pretty sure I'm going to lose most of them in the divorce because he's got way more social capital but I'm okay with that.

Well, IMO, people are backstabbing, petty, childish, and horrible. But sometimes they surprise you.

What your WH did was despicable. If there are friends that side with him or minimize his actions, you're better off without them. Sure some may "not want to get involved" and aren't exactly close. But if I was close to a couple, and one of them did the things your WH or my WW did, I wouldn't like it one bit -- and I didn't have to be cheated on to feel like that (granted, the feeling intensified x100). I may be friendly to the cheater and not cause a ruckus, but I'm not going to choose them over the betrayed just because they're more social/charismatic/fun.

I really hope that some of those shared friends react negatively to what he has done and you don't lose the ones that really count.

My family had a similar experience of finding out who you can count on when my mom had cancer 9 years ago. When shit hits the fan, it always weeds the people you can count on. Granted, people have their own lives and I think it's entitled thinking to expect the world of everyone around you (and sometimes it's up to you to reach out), but it is unfortunate how some people you thought would back you up just fall flat when the time comes.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 9:22 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)]

skeetermooch posted 12/18/2019 09:39 AM

Hi Sakura,

I may be wrong, but in my opinion if you have high empathy and you know your actions are causing harm to someone you love, that empathy you have should be a major force in changing your actions, right? Addictions may make that seemingly insurmountable though

That book about helping your partner heal says somewhere that affairs are like an addiction to the WS - so there's that. I don't know if that applies to my STBX bc he did't have an affair - he had a bunch of hookers and hook-ups - nothing ongoing.

I was also thinking that our spouses may simply lack character. Real acts of character aren't required on a daily basis. So our spouses may have civility, manners, great intellects, niceness, great senses of humor, etc but when moments that require real character arise - resisting cheating for instance they can't or won't do the right thing.

Someone getting cancer is a good example - folks with character will step up and others can't be inconvenienced.

As for my friends, I simply can't see sharing his infidelity with a certain people. So, when they learn we broke up they aren't going to know why - he's certainly not telling - but I've really enjoyed the social opportunities coupledom has offered. I's amazing how many more invites I get to parties since I got married! It's not the end of the world though - it's probably one of the smaller hits I'm taking, just bums be out a little.

WhoTheBleep posted 12/18/2019 09:45 AM

not only cheated and cheated in ways I could not have fathomed, for our entire marriage, he engaged in lies, gas lighting , shaming and blaming me to accomplish it. He let me exist in a constant state of insecurity and confusion while we were together.

I know exactly how you feel.

(((Skeeter)))

ShatteredSakura posted 12/18/2019 10:05 AM

I was also thinking that our spouses may simply lack character. Real acts of character aren't required on a daily basis. So our spouses may have civility, manners, great intellects, niceness, great senses of humor, etc but when moments that require real character arise - resisting cheating for instance they can't or won't do the right thing.

I agree. WW is an intelligent woman with a good sense of humor (at least or me, she claims she isn't funny...)

Even before the PA, I had a sinking feeling that I could never really rely on her in a crisis...like if I got cancer and she had to take care of me or something of that sort. It's a thought that has haunted me for a while now.

Part of why I reached that conclusion are my experiences with giving care...I took care of my mom when she had her cancer 9 years ago (she's still with us thank god). I take care of WW when she's sick. I take care of myself when I'm sick.

Meanwhile, WW's mother gets bent out of shape her daughter has a 99 degree temperature, and I've even been accused (by both WW once and her mother frequently) that I don't care about WW because I don't raise a ruckus. Yeah, I laugh at a slight fever because I've seen my mother in agony with throat sores and radiation burns and barely able to keep water/food down.

ShatteredSakura posted 12/18/2019 10:14 AM

As for my friends, I simply can't see sharing his infidelity with a certain people. So, when they learn we broke up they aren't going to know why - he's certainly not telling

Yeah, I can understand. It burns me up though when people don't know the truth, it's like they get a pass on what they did...or like you're covering for them while they can be out there and act like a sweet innocent angel.

WW hated I "aired the dirty laundry" to some people, she only wanted me to talk to people who were not her friends so it wouldn't affect her. It feels like abuse keeping their terrible actions a secret as they enjoy an unsmirched reputation. WW blew it in October when one of these friends didn't bother inviting her to their Halloween party. WW angrily told me that I'm ruining her life...she wanted me to stay quiet and disappear while she enjoys that particular group of friends. If confiding in a friend is ruining her life, what the hell is a 2+ year EA/PA doing to mine then?

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 10:14 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)]

DevastatedDee posted 12/18/2019 11:09 AM

I used to be so shocked about what my XWH had done. I mean literally, I would have been no more shocked if an alien spacecraft had landed on my front lawn than I was to find out he'd been cheating on me with numerous prostitutes. The guy I thought he was could never have done that. It really comes down to him never having been who I thought he was in the first place. That is a huge trauma and I know from experience that it takes a while to begin to wrap your mind around it. The good news is that in time, you won't care. That's a blessing.

DashboardMadonna posted 12/18/2019 19:11 PM

Skeeter and shattered-

Sam Vaknin has studied and contributed to a lot of research involving narcissistic pathology. He claims to be diagnosed with narcissism in the past and also run ins with the law (soliciting prostitutes, I fathom)...

In terms of prostitutes, they see themselves above them, and that is what attracts them. Their wives (madonna) are saintly and they put them in position of "mother", while resenting them for it. My husband deliberately withheld, as a means to control me and on the occasions he attempted, "peter" fell flat.

It stems from the shit relationship they have with their own mothers...theres a probability of incest, in their childhoods. My husband was playing with sissy...wink wink...

Women narcs are exactly the same... I was also raised by two narc parents....dad overt...mother covert. It's two sides of the same coin, honestly. There is a huge overlap between the two.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 7:13 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)]

skeetermooch posted 12/18/2019 19:28 PM

I would have been no more shocked if an alien spacecraft had landed on my front lawn than I was to find out he'd been cheating on me with numerous prostitutes. The guy I thought he was could never have done that.

Ah, Dee, that perfectly describes how I feel. How odd to have never really known the real him. So, so odd and frightening. I let some wild animal into my life. How???

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