Dontworrybehappy posted 7/10/2020 09:28 AM

I have always wondered if my husband was in the affair category? Because it’s such a weird situation. As she kissed him first then two months later he kissed her. No in between secret calls or anything like that. Where does my situation land?

Joanna1013 posted 7/10/2020 09:36 AM

Everyone here hates Esther Perel, but I think she has a pretty good definition of infidelity.

“Infidelity,” she explains, “includes one or more of these three constitutive elements: secrecy, sexual alchemy, and emotional involvement.” Perel expounds on the three elements in her bestselling book, The State of Affairs.

That quote came from a Psych Central article about her podcast.

However, I think the actual definition is less important than the fact that what your husband did hurt you, whether you feel it fits or not.

MIgander posted 7/10/2020 09:39 AM

How did he get in a situation where they were able to share a kiss in the 1st place?

Unless you're European and it's the kiss on the cheek hello, there's no way either of them should have been in an intimate enough (and secluded enough) situation where a kiss could take place.

How did he allow himself to be in that situation in the first place? There are so many barriers and boundaries to intimacy to be crossed before even considering such contact can even become a possibility.

How do you know there wasn't any conversation between "kisses"? Do you have access to phone/email/text?

Sorry, while this may not be a protracted entrenched affair, it's definitely infidelity.

Dontworrybehappy posted 7/10/2020 09:54 AM

Well we were 25 young and stupid both times at a party. First time was her she was drunk. Well they were both drunk, but it was in the garage fast and un-announced to my husband. Then the second time was at our house in the garage after a party again. Late night people passed out and last ones standing kinda thing. That time it was my husband. But I looked at the phone records. I went nuts and just dig deep into everything.

Joanna1013 posted 7/10/2020 10:12 AM

I've been young and stupid and drunk a lot in my life, and not all that long ago. I've never kissed someone else while I was drunk though, and I'm not someone who holds their liquor well, so it's not as if I'm great at keeping my shit together.

And he did this twice. Why her? Why her again?

I agree with MIgander. Kisses don't just happen randomly. Why did they feel they could kiss each other?

I get being flirtier or kind of inappropriate when drunk, but I think even drunk me knows that actually kissing anyone is over the line.

I don't know. Like I said, I don't think it matters if it fits anyone's definition of infidelity or an affair. You feel betrayed, and I would, too.

Is he remorseful that he hurt you?

Dontworrybehappy posted 7/10/2020 10:51 AM

Right I agree. I have also been drunk to that point where someone tried to kiss me and I knew it was a line not to cross.

I think for her she was getting her husband back. He had an affair with her brothers wife and the night of the party she had seen them talking and walking off from the party together and snapped. That’s when she kissed him.

The second time was at our party. We had got into a fight that night to from what I can recall. And he asked to kiss her. I think he was figuring out if he was happy and wanted to stay in our marriage or move on. Not necessarily with her. But just in general.

Third was an attempt. She tried kissing him and he declined this was later in the summer. See I didn’t know for a year. The only people to know were my husband and her obviously, and then she told her husband right after. My husband didn’t know he knew till it came out to me.

But I think the reason I believe him in his “I did it to figure out our marriage” is cause he declined again. If he wanted to then why not? They already crossed that line.

But sometimes I get conflicted and I have a hard time facing the reality. And sometimes I get caught in victim mode. I research, google things and go to forums. It’s a ugly spiral cause we are gold. Literally he is everything I ever wanted. He has grown into the amazing husband and father. So why do I keep going back?

Bigger posted 7/10/2020 11:10 AM

Although Perels definition is correct then I prefer the one attributed to Dr. Phil:
If you wouldn’t do it with her [your spouse] standing there then it’s cheating.

Dontworrybehappy posted 7/10/2020 11:32 AM

Without a doubt he cheated. But what makes for an affair and what makes for cheating? Does that make sense? I might not be making sense lol

Joanna1013 posted 7/10/2020 11:38 AM

Dontworrybehappy,

Why does it matter what you call it? Really not trying to be rude here at all, but if you feel betrayed, you feel betrayed, affair or not.

This0is0Fine posted 7/10/2020 11:49 AM

Dr. Phil has it half right but ignores the people that are real bad. For example, some people might fuck their AP right in front of their spouse.

It's the betrayed spouse that sets the standard then.

If your SO wouldn't be bothered seeing a videotape of your interactions with this other person, you aren't having an affair.

Dontworrybehappy posted 7/10/2020 12:23 PM

I think I ask this cause people are more judging. It’s like oh they did it one time forgive them it was a one off. But if they did it this many times they are awful and should not be forgiven. It just makes me feel like I am a loser with a loser. Like because it happened twice makes him a even bigger POS. Does that make sense?

HellFire posted 7/10/2020 12:34 PM

I assume he didn't tell you she kissed him after that first party?

Then you continued to be friends with her,and had her in your home. Not knowing she kissed your husband.

But he knew.

He hid it from you. He thought about it. He enjoyed it enough to then kiss her.

Being drunk is his excuse? Then how does he explain all the time in between her kissing him,and him kissing her? He wasn't drunk during the time he was keeping it from you,and allowing her in your home,and letting you think she was a friend.

LadyFalcon posted 7/10/2020 12:44 PM

Secrecy.

Any action or interaction that you feel you need to hide from your spouse because they would not be comfortable with it, IMO is infidelity.

An affair involves a second party either in person or virtually (porn, chats, etc).

The metric for infidelity is up to the betrayed to determine.

I do not use infidelity/affair interchangeably as i believe there are other forms of infidelity such as financial, property, etc.

Dontworrybehappy posted 7/10/2020 12:50 PM

💯 I think that’s why I have such a hard time with it. Is the fact that they all knew for a year before I found out. She told her husband after both times and my husband begged her not to tell me because he was so terrified I would leave. And as for her she’s just as wrong. If she was truly my friend and truly his friend she would’ve told him no absolutely not and left it at that.
We had a rocky marriage had kids super young and Jet into it pretty quickly. I think he didn’t like the fact that obviously we fought a lot plus we partied a lot hung out with friends all the time, and I would just flirt with his friends and so on being young thinking it would make him want me more kind of a scenario a dumb thought process.

And it’s really weird that’s what I’ve been trying to figure out forever. The circumstance is just so weird that I don’t know what the intention was? Because if he wanted her why didn’t he continue? She straight outside I could kiss you right now again but I’m not going to. And his response was good I don’t want you to. But why didn’t he? I mean if you truly want it or why not? And I’m I supposed to be flattered by this I don’t know? I get that every marriage has its complications and sometimes people don’t think through what could be the effect of what they did. But damn.

And iit’s all just so weird I think that’s why I have such a hard time It’s just so out of the norm of the normal circumstances that’s why I keep seeking help my brain does not know how to process.

Emotionalhell posted 7/11/2020 08:23 AM

If you keep it a secret