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How could they say this is only between "mom and dad" ???

Mari104 posted 11/18/2020 15:36 PM

I apologize for the long post. My thoughts are all over the place and I am just trying to make sense of so much. Here is my issue..... My FWH refuses to accept how much of his actions has affected our children and our extended family.

This has been an ongoing issue for me for years now and now sh** is hitting the fan big time. For those that do not know my background story……let’s just say that my FWH put my children and I through hell....for YEARS. I have not been on here for a long time and so much more has happened over the last year. Things that I am still trying to wrap my head around. It has now come to the point that our 12 year old daughter is “done” with her dad. She is refusing to allow him to continue blaming everyone else for his actions and not taking full accountability. She is in therapy. This has helped her to stand strong on what she believes and giving her a voice. She has told her father she refuses to be a part of this “entire situation”. There is no proof that he is still seeing the OW, but knowing his history, we really don’t believe a word he says. She has just made it very clear she never wants to meet her or have anything to do with someone like her. She has told him that he has issues and needs to understand everything he has done has greatly impacted her and her brother. He repeatedly tells her “this is between your mother and I. What I did to your mother has nothing to do with our relationship.” She fights back. She tells him he is wrong and he did so much, we are all suffering now because of him and he is selfish to think that way. How in the world can he do so much for so long. Turn our world upside down and still say that it is between “mom and dad” ?????

Clearly, he is selfish and has demonstrated NPD traits. He refuses to allow her to feel this way and told her “he demands she respect him as her father” She is so hurt and upset. She even now refuses to go to his apartment and he is lashing out. Demanding that I change her therapist, because this one is clearly “not doing her job.” I refuse to change her therapist and feel like he is being unreasonable. He is the parent and told him he needs to start acting like it. Our 12 year old daughter is hurting because of his actions.She deserves a safe place to talk about her feelings and loves her therapist. He needs to get off his high horse and try to understand things from her perspective. Allow her to heal at her own pace and respect the fact that she is not ready to continue a relationship with him the way he thinks she should at the moment. He just won’t see it this way. Obviously, blames it partly on me. That I am not “disciplining” her the right way. Allowing her to disrespect him. Honestly, if it was anyone else in my shoes, they wouldn’t even try to help his situation with our daughter. He has hurt us all so so deeply.

Has anyone else had a similar situation? I want my children to have a relationship with their father. That is why, regardless of what he has done, I have always tried to help be the mediator between them. However, I need to also feel that he is going to have my kids’ best interest in mind moving forward and with everything he has done……..I just can’t feel that way right now. I am at a crossroads.

Do I continue to try and speak to him about his need to be more compassionate and understanding when it comes to our children? Do I remove myself completely and just have my daughter communicate directly with him when she wants and feels the need to? I just really don’t know how to handle all of this. It is very overwhelming. I am still dealing with my own hurt and destruction……and it is difficult to separate the two.

As a side note…..his frustrations are getting worse because his parents and grandmother now are not really speaking to him because of what he has done. They have told him they can’t support his shitty behavior or choices. He feels like they disowned him. He says everyone is on “my side”…..and what our daughter and I have told him so many times….this is not about being on anyone’s side. This is about everyone being on their own side. What he has done has hurt his children. That is where many people draw the line. I know he feels alone. I get it. But he did this to himself and now wants everyone’s support. It just doesn’t work that way.

Hippo16 posted 11/18/2020 17:43 PM

Mari104

from your post - I see that you answered your own question:


Has anyone else had a similar situation? I want my children to have a relationship with their father. That is why, regardless of what he has done, I have always tried to help be the mediator between them. However, I need to also feel that he is going to have my kids’ best interest in mind moving forward and with everything he has done……..I just can’t feel that way right now. I am at a crossroads.

Do I continue to try and speak to him about his need to be more compassionate and understanding when it comes to our children? Do I remove myself completely and just have my daughter communicate directly with him when she wants and feels the need to? I just really don’t know how to handle all of this. It is very overwhelming. I am still dealing with my own hurt and destruction……and it is difficult to separate the two.

As a side note…..his frustrations are getting worse because his parents and grandmother now are not really speaking to him because of what he has done. They have told him they can’t support his shitty behavior or choices. He feels like they disowned him. He says everyone is on “my side”…..and what our daughter and I have told him so many times….this is not about being on anyone’s side. This is about everyone being on their own side. What he has done has hurt his children. That is where many people draw the line. I know he feels alone. I get it. But he did this to himself and now wants everyone’s support. It just doesn’t work that way.

the blunt truth is:

But he did this to himself and now wants everyone’s support. It just doesn’t work that way.

I grew up without a dad - obviously I had a father (aka sperm donor) - and I didn't shed a tear when he croaked. I was 15. He was NEVER a Dad.

I would support your daughter and discuss any questions she brings to you without prejudice. Answer based on correct moral behavior. Anything else will cause mental conflict.

Appears (from what you have written) that you have done a good job guiding her.

She needs to understand bullying - and "dad" is being a bully. You need to kill that -

She needs to be supported in not wanting someone who causes hurt to be a part of her life.

Being a father does NOT come with a set of obligations that the offspring must honor. Honor is living a life upholding the codes of moral conduct. Then the honorable father can become a DAD. THEN there should be some respect.

Otherwise - only respect due is what one should give any stranger they pass on the path of life.

Breakingapart posted 11/18/2020 17:45 PM

I could have written your post. Only difference is I have 4 kids and only 1, the youngest who doesn’t really get what dad did (yet) will see him. My eldest will text him on occasion but is very frank with him and isn’t buying his bull...the middle 2 won’t see him or speak to him. It’s been almost a year!
He is pissed and blames me! He has stated that he didn’t betray them, he betrayed me. He doesn’t understand why everyone isn’t happy for him and his new found happiness. Doesn’t understand why the kids aren’t “okay by now”...
The words out of their mouths is astonishing!!!!
He has lost his kids his parents, siblings, friends....yet he is bound and determined to make this work and is sure one day everyone will be happy that he is happy....

I feel for you because I’m living it! It’s unbearable!
Just wanted you to know you are not alone......

twicefooled posted 11/18/2020 17:53 PM

Same issues here. My exh has addiction issues that controls his life. This leads to him seeing the kids very infrequently, it's been like this for the past 7yrs. The last few years of our marriage was really bad and that affected the children as well.

My kids are now 17 (son) and 14 (daughter). My son has very little contact with his dad due to continuing behaviors and my daughter is at the point where I think she is done as well.

My ex still blames my therapist (from 8yrs ago) for "poisoning me" against him and, by extension, the whole reason the kids don't want to deal with him. Nothing about the addiction, his behaviors, his inability to be a dad. Nope, it's still MY fault for "breaking up the family"

I only facilitated the relationship that the children want with him as soon as they became the age where they got a voice in where they lived. If they don't want to talk to him, that's their choice.

In both of our situations, we aren't being controlling or alienating - we are trying to keep our children safe from the abusive behaviors of their fathers. My son was hospitalized 2 yrs ago for bad depression and trying to hurt himself - the day after he got out, his dad wanted to take him to the movies and my son wanted to go. Less than an hour later I got a call from my son to go pick him up because his dad was freaking out on him for, get this, NOT being happy enough to see him! His dad felt that since they hadn't hung out in a while (due to his own behaviors) that our son should be over the moon happy and yelled about him about it. In public.

My children are far more mature than their father is. Therapy has been a literal lifesaver for them and it will be a cold day in hell before I'd EVER take my child out of therapy because of the person that put them there.

The1stWife posted 11/18/2020 18:12 PM

Maybe a neutral third party could “explain” it to him.

Like a licensed professional or your daughter’s therapist. I’m not suggesting your daughter be present but maybe someone else could point out his obvious flawed thinking. You & your XH should ask the therapist for a meeting just for you two to understand the dynamic.

If that doesn’t work out I suggest you just stop being the Fix It person and let him vent to your voicemail or email. When he gets no response he may get the message and cease.

Or ask his parents to explain it to him. Or one of his relatives.

But you need to remove yourself from this drama.

Mari104 posted 11/18/2020 19:16 PM

Hippo16

I would support your daughter and discuss any questions she brings to you without prejudice. Answer based on correct moral behavior. Anything else will cause mental conflict.

This ^^^ !!!! Thank you!!!! That is what I have been explaining to him all this time. I REFUSE to minimize his actions in any way, shape or form. I refuse to tell my kids he did what he did because “mom and dad were having problems”. That is what he wants me to tell them. However, he did what he did simply because he chose to! Period! My daughter told him herself that every marriage has problems, it does not justify doing such hurtful things. Ok too if it all, he went above and beyond just having an affair. He destroyed us. We were raising our children with morals, respect and integrity. I am not going to change that now.

Breakingapart, your story is very similar to mine. My son is 8 and does not know what his dad has done. I honestly feel
that when he does find out and is old enough to understand, he will have a very similar reaction as his sister. They just refuse to take full accountability for the fact that their actions are completely unacceptable and if they chose to continue living this life, they will lose more than they may be willing to lose. That is their choice. Others are not going to all of the sudden lose their morals and integrity because they chose to.

Twicefooled and The1stwife: Thank you for your advice. Throughout all of this, I really did try to shield my kids from their father’s choices, however, there is only so much shielding you can do in circumstances like this. He emotionally abused me, lied, played with my heart and soul for so long. I just could no longer hide anything. He could blame me all he wants, but he knows the reality is, he is the only one to blame for all of the aftermath. Maybe I will ask both of us to speak to her therapist. If that doesn’t work, he can figure things out on his own or with his therapist. Unfortunately, I don’t believe therapy is going to help him much since he does not fully disclose everything he has done to his therapist. He seems to purposely “forget” so much of what he has done and then plays the victim. This is exhausting!!!!
Thanks to everyone! You all help be stay sane and know that I am not alone in this.

The1stWife posted 11/19/2020 05:49 AM

Maybe you just need to stop trying.

Set up an parental app that only discusses schedules with children or the limited interaction you need to have with him.

If the children are old enough he can text them directly.

Otherwise he has no interaction with you. And you have none with him. He pays the alimony or child support on time. That’s the extent of your interaction.

OwningItNow posted 11/19/2020 19:06 PM

From Mari104

Clearly, he is selfish and has demonstrated NPD traits.

From twicefooled

stbxNPDWH 40 at time of betrayal (addicted to everything you can imagine

From Breakingapart

He is pissed and blames me! He has stated that he didn’t betray them, he betrayed me. He doesn’t understand why everyone isn’t happy for him and his new found happiness.

You are all living in narcissistic hell! They are the absolute worst, and that includes that they do not care about their children's needs either. Nobody matters but the narcissist. Nobody else has thoughts, feelings, needs, or wants besides him! What's wrong with you people? Don't you get it? Your exes are suffering because you guys are so mean!!!!

At least you can support each other on this thread because you all seem to have married the same guy. Ugh. Your poor kids--so hard to understand why a parent acts this way, but at least they have a good parent too, to show what love and sanity look like. Hang tough. You won't have to deal with this craziness forever, at least not like this.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 7:07 PM, November 19th (Thursday)]

Breakingapart posted 11/19/2020 21:23 PM

If it didn’t involve children it would be different. Sadly they are
Suffering too. How do you show lawyers and therapists how different they are acting and thinking so as to hopefully protect your children from them....they don’t know what he was like before....it’s his word vs yours at a time when you know there’s something terribly wrong going on with this person. It scares me!

OwningItNow posted 11/20/2020 04:46 AM

It scares me!

It is very scary, I know. You might try the book Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Boderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I know your stbxH might not have a personality disorder, but since he is acting so unstable, the book still may speak to you and give helpful advice. There is also good info online about this, as well as researching high conflict divorce. I had a friend who found a lot of helpful info online about how to discuss this stuff during D.

The1stWife posted 11/20/2020 20:35 PM

Cheaters say this to protect themselves from their own guilt.

Plain & simple — they don’t want to understand or face the fact they have destroyed a family.

learningtofeel posted 11/20/2020 21:01 PM

My kids are young adults, but same thing - their dad wanted my help to "smooth" the relationship with the. I said nope, that's yours. They expect him to truly own what he did and he can't. I honestly believe he actually can't - because he is still in his addiction. I can't solve his addictive situation but I can support my kids in having boundaries of their own.

I tell them: you may not feel okay about having a relationship with your dad right now, and that's totally fine and up to you. It does not have to be that way forever and you can always try again when you're ready and see if he's ready then too.

I tell them I hope for them that they have a healthy relationship with their dad in a way that works for them, and I'm happy to support them in that in any way they want me to. I support THEM, not him.

Sounds like you are supporting your daughter too. She sounds like a really wise 12 year old!

LittleRussian posted 11/26/2020 04:56 AM

Yes. MIne expected me to help restart the relationship between him and our daughters (then aged 16). Neither wanted anything to do with him as he'd been ignoring them for years before he moved out. And, funnily enough, 3 years later they still don't. One is happy enough for me to let him know where she is at university and what she's studying. The other doesn't even want him to know what. The only child who does speak to him is our eldest - who lives abroad and so only sees him once or twice a year.

hcsv posted 11/26/2020 14:09 PM

I told ex before divorce that his relationship with his three adult children was his to repair or destroy but I'm out. I wont make excuses for anyone anymore.

There is no relationship between him and his three children. They are adults, they made this decision on their own.

This is consequence to his actions and choices. In order for him to understand that, he would have to take responsibility for those choices.

Of course, he blames me. In reality, I have protected them from knowing details and have expressed on more then one occasion that I hope some day they have whatever kind of relationship with their dad that makes them comfortable.

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