SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

NoMercy - Unless you are the OM then how do you know Mrs. Texashunter41 is lying?

Cincy – was it a threesome? Were you there? Was it good for you too?

I hate comments like the ones above. I don’t see any help in heavily distributing salt in the wounds of the BS. God knows it’s painful enough already…

Texas:

Look friend – the quality or even the quantity of sex isn’t really the big thing. The OM dick-size, his performance and all that… not the issue.

Why not? Because it’s like evaluating the damage caused by a fire by the height of the flames. By the time any of those factors become relevant it’s too late. It’s not as if the affair was any less because he was small or because he came too quick. The moment your wife opened the gate that led to sex… THAT is the magic, black-hole moment.

The posters talking about the OM meeting her needs – and not sexual but emotional – those posters are on the money. The ones talking about validation and all that.

It might not make sense. In a way then for us (maybe especially us men) then great sex makes more sense than having someone make us feel like we matter. But then – infidelity isn’t about sense.

I get it that you think you were doing all you could to make her feel good in the marriage and no doubt you were… but SHE wasn’t capable of realizing that.

I think remaining in limbo is really bad. I’m going to encourage you to open up for REAL reconciliation or to do yourself, your wife and your family the immense favor of filing.

"The sex wasn't that great" is a lie told by cheaters to minimize the damage they've done. They loved the sex.

I don't agree. I don't see how you can minimize that you had sex with someone. It doesn't matter if you had sex for 3 seconds, damage is still the same. In fact, it doesn't even matter if there was penetration, it's still the betrayal of it all. You can't minimize the planning, lying, the act itself and everything in between. I don't really see how it matters whether it was good or not.

I can understand if the spouse did things that they aren't willing to do with you, or that they reject you sexually all the time but had sex with them 3 times a day. I understand a lot of the issues, but saying it was just okay if it was just okay doesn't take the sting out of any of it.

After D-Day, I also questioned WH why he was going back for sex bc the first time was a disaster. He said the same thing your wife is saying, he was hoping it would be better.

Gently..

Sex that's over in 2-3 mins is usually good for a guy. Too good, that's why it's over so fast. But, even if he's telling the truth about it being mediocre, it doesn't imply that he wouldn't fly out to see her again (as he did). Why?? I think that mediocre sex for a man is just different than it is for a woman. The worst sex I've ever had in my life, yeah, I'd rather be having that right now than typing this message. Because even outright "awful" sex is pretty darn good. I don't think this is true for women at all, I've seen some women actually cringe when recalling past sexual experiences, I have nothing that I can relate that to. I've had some "I'd rather not repeat that" experiences, but, being honest, if that person made it easy enough, I probably would have (and did, many times when I was single).

"The sex wasn't that great" is a lie told by cheaters to minimize the damage they've done. They loved the sex.

Which leads me to this. I think that this is pretty much almost always true for males. I do not think it's true for women. There's just a lot more variability in a sexual encounter for a woman, what if he's tiny, what if he can't stay hard, what if he's premature, what if he won't go down on me, what if he doesn't touch me and make me orgasm? There's just a lot of things that a guy needs to do right to make "good/great sex" for a woman. The reverse isn't true, even a "starfish", if she's attractive to him, most guys are going to rate that as "pretty good". Add in the element of an A, the "new" (men are driven to pursue "new sex" more than women are, IMHO, it's our biological imperative), the excitement. No, I have a pretty hard time believing that A sex for most men is anything but "pretty awesome". I can fully believe that the woman who cheats with a man who turns out to have a micropenis, has ED, doesn't believe in oral sex for her but is find with it for him, has premature problems and poor genital hygiene.. Yeah, no problem at all believe that sucked for the woman.

But here is where I have trouble - why do you think she stays? You are 18 months into this situation (based on things from this thread) and you sound way more inclined for D if it weren't for kids. If she isn't remorseful, doesn't want the marriage, why would she keep fighting this seemingly losing battle?

Yes, if I didn’t have children with her I actually would have been gone before the affair.

Why she wants the marriage now that she has made herself disgusting to me is beyond me. I don’t find her attractive anymore like I once did. I desired her too much, loved her too much and lusted for her like no other..but her bitch of a AP was just better...I Just see a easy cheap woman who would give up everything she ever had for someone only after knowing him for a day. I do t lie to her..I tell her these things because they are true..I can’t lie about it when she has proven it..If our marriage was so bad I always told her to give me a D and not screw our family. She knew having an affair was the worst thing she could do. She knew my history and family’s history. She knew how it effected me and still did it purposefully. Let’s not forget at the time we had 3 young children..how can anyone who dares call them self a parent not care about what they are doing to their kids future..how could you be fine with getting a D because mom could keep strangers from putting their cock in her..I could go on and on..was I perfect hell no! Never have and never will claim I was. I would say we had a regular marriage life..we fought at times but nothing that should have even gotten her close to doing this. Many people were shocked because they envied what she had with me. Now how F’ed is that??

But back to your question...why does she fight a losing battle? Simple...basic WW thinking..I can fix this..what I’ve done isn’t the worst thing..my fav she has said is..”if you loved me the way you’ve said then we can get past this.” That my love should get us through what she’s done. WW I believe think everything in life can be fixed with I’m sorry, I’m broken, it was a mistake etc etc..I guess she does it just to punish herself..

I see nothing valid in her..she’s the way she is because she was caught..plain and simple..even after he dumped her she didn’t even try to repair what she had done..just business as regular..still didn’t want the marriage to me..so I give her everything she wanted... A husband who doesn’t lover her, care for her, can call her horrible names and mean then, who will never appreciate her or have pride in her..now all her dreams and fantasies have come true. Her AP gave fantasies but could never make the real for her. I on the other hand have always tried to make the come true for her. So my last gift to her is to fulfill them the way she dreamed them..she dreamed I was a pos who didn’t care or anything for her even when I was busting my ass of for her to give and show her those things. Let her eat her lies and distortions she made me into. It maybe isn’t what she truly wanted but it’s what she required to have her exciting life with him..her distraction...her need to have another man be recognized for all the things I was trying to give her. She fights for the marriage?? What marriage?? That’s dead and gone...I’m not that man anymore nor do I care to be. That dumb ass gave to much to her already..I’ve got no more to give to a person like her..

I’m starting to believe D is the right thing at this point for me and my children...She doesn’t have what it takes to make a marriage work nor does she have the true sense of work needed to even try..I think today people are right about her and this marriage..time to pull the plug. I’ve screwed myself enough with her. I made a change in careers that has allowed her to further hers. Now I find myself without work and staying home with the baby. I’ve been defeated all the way around. I’ll lose my kids because of this. I’ll become this weekend dad and we’ll thats just not good enough for me to pay for a pos like her..death would be better...I’m ready for the easy way out for once..

But I say all these things and yet here I still here..that confuses me even more..sitting on this roller coaster that I just can’t seem to get off of..

[This message edited by Texashunter41 at 10:11 AM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

It sounds like you have your head on straight and are thinking clearly. I agree with your assessment of the situation and your way forward. Good luck!

I don't agree. I don't see how you can minimize that you had sex with someone.

Then you haven't seen a lot of cheaters at work. It minimizes the sex by trying to convince the BS it was bad sex so it's less damaging than if it was good sex. This is literally one of the most common lies they tell. There is a whole list of them and this one is always in the top 5.

”if you loved me the way you’ve said then we can get past this.”

Tell her to drop the passive aggressive bulls**t. I might walk out if my WW said this.

She seems to harbor a lot of anger towards you for some reason. Or she just has her head up her a** deeper than most.

A quote from my WW-

Fantasy, adventure, doing something I’d never done before, believing the lies I told myself and that he told me, feeling wanted and desired...I liked him and I have not denied that. I lusted for him because of the way he made me feel. I thought that the sex with him felt great, wonderful, amazing - but in the light of day, and looking back, and especially after what I have experienced with you over this last 19 months - I know that he was shit for sex....it was not good. It felt good at the time, but it was not amazingly mind blowing sex.

He talked a lot about wanting to see me again, and that made me feel good. I had an opportunity to create the opportunity, had the money available and justified it all to myself. It was wrong. I was wrong. So so wrong.

I don’t know what kind of emotion you want me to have had for him....it was not love...I know you don’t like when I say it, but he was a distraction from real life. I never wanted to run away and have a new life with him. It was all cake-eating bull shit. And I allowed myself to be talked into it. I didn’t put a stop to it when I knew it was wrong. It I allowed myself to get wrapped up in the compliments and the dirty talk...the feeling and desire allowed me to justify what I was doing. I am so sorry. I HATE HATE HATE what I have done to you, what I became during that time, and how you feel about me now. I don’t expect you to ever understand...I really just hope that one day you will see how sorry I am and how much I love you. I have fucked everything up. and I can’t expect you to forgive or love me ever again.

[This message edited by Texashunter41 at 10:23 AM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

Cincy - I am one of the said cheaters. I never for one moment believed that saying the sex was just okay made anything at all better. It doesn't. It's just factual information. It doesn't remove the betrayal or that I did it. I haven't lied about any of it, and I didn't for a second believe that whether it was mindblowing or not that it was going to minimize any of it.

TexasHunter,

It does sound like you are stuck in many ways and I agree you can't move forward this way. I don't know your wife, but I do know that having resources for both of you could possibly help the situation if you aren't 100% sure about the divorce. I think IC would help both of you, and could help you even if you do decide to D. It's going to be hard for you to move forward in your life and even in possible new relationships without healing this somehow.

I never believe that one person can fix the relationship. Someone else said (maybe on another thread) something that I think is 100% true and that is both people have to heal themselves and then they can see if they can heal their marriage. If neither of you have moved enough forward with your own healing it would be no mystery as to why you can't get past limbo. R will mean that she will have to make sure she's come completely clean, that she's worked on herself, and made herself a safe partner for you. And, for you, it would mean you would have to soften your feelings towards her and start moving towards acceptance. I can see how far away from that you are.

And, I know waywards are not one size fits all, and there may or may not be redemption here. I have no idea. I just know how being remorseful feels and how much I want my own marriage. I don't want to project that onto your wife, but the fact she keeps fighting tells me that there is more here than what is being seen.

You do not need to decide here and now to D or to R. I think what you need to decide is that you want to heal, that you don't want to stay in this state of rage and work on that. Once you have, you can always look through that new lens and decide. What you all are doing is not working, get some resources - books, IC, some support, and work towards a healthier place. Even if you do D, this will be so beneficial to your children because despising their mother or having bitterness between you even in a co-parenting relationship is going to adversely effect them.

I am not saying it shouldn't be a dealbreaker for you. All I am saying is that you both need to move towards your healing. I can hear how much pain that you are both in and it's just not moving in any direction that will help either of you.

ETA - I just read the quote from her. I do see remorse here. I do think there are things to work with if you want to work with them.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:24 AM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

I'm kind of in line with rideitout and hikingout and this vvv

My best guess is the AP made her feel something she thought she needed. What that is could be a lot of things, but likely it was some sort of validation. My experience in the A is that you kind of play a role (not sexually), you get to be someone else and escape reality. The AP is probably mirroring something to her that is making her feel seen.

That's very close to how my WW described what her A was like. After discovery - which was actually 18 month after it fizzled out - I found out when and where they had sex but I didn't ask for the details beyond that. The fact that it happened was enough.

But it's the one area where I can understand why the WS, especially the WW to the BH, might feel that confessing it was amazing would actually be rubbing salt in the wounds rather than being transparent. Even amid the confessions, it's a hard and cruel thing to have to say to your BS.

But actually I suspect for most WS it's not amazing at all, because it's the A, not the AP that they really love.

TH - for your wife the thrill of the flight and the excitement and anticipation of it all was probably far better than the deed. Now this may well make no difference to whether you R or D but all I would say is that it is perfectly plausible that she made a lot of effort for average sex. Think of the old saying: the chase it better than the catch.

Good luck with your own decision-making, remember you are under no time pressure so take this all at a pace that suits you.

Thing is that she’s good with saying things when it comes to me..it’s the actions to prove them she’s never been able to do..old saying “words are cheap but actions speak louder.” During the affair she would alway say she loved me many times a day..but when I look at her actions..well they speak for them self. She still sounds and feels the same..when your out proving to another person you value them more than what you have..making them feel like a king everyday and then come home and treat the person in you life like their nothing..well I just can’t get over that..my whole marriage wasted because she felt I didn’t deserve to be treated that way..I don’t care if that’s all he was good for..it was how all this time I wasn’t that person for her and he could get it only after one day...from sun up to sun down she made him king of the world and for 18 months..she committed to him faster then she ever did for me.. plus the action now feel forced and fake..like I said..had he not dumped her and she had gotten called out..she’d still be having the affair and she wouldn’t have changed how she was treating me anyway..

[This message edited by Texashunter41 at 10:49 AM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

I understand, TH. I wish I had the right words to help with your pain, but I do not. The A was 18 months?

You say the words are there but not the actions. I want to ask about that...I get the actions were not there during the A, I really do. I think every BS has that same issue, it's the crux of betrayal. But, my questions - Since DDAY, she hasn't done the things you think she should do to prove herself worthy of R? Is there really anything she can do towards that? Do you think that you would be receptive towards it?

In my situation, I would say my H is receptive maybe 1 in 8- 10 times. Much less in the beginning. As we have moved forward, I just kept doing it and eventually we've worked up to that ratio. Is there a ratio here?

Please understand I am not saying you owe her anything at all. Certainly my H doesn't either. I am suggesting that sometimes we don't always know how to keep doing it when it brings more pain or anger in our spouse. Do you want her to try?

I hate comments like the ones above. I don’t see any help in heavily distributing salt in the wounds of the BS. God knows it’s painful enough already…

Thanks, Bigger, for mentioning how unhelpful and just mean spirited these types of comments are. I don't understand how some can be just...cruel.

.it’s the actions to prove them she’s never been able to do.

What specifically is she not doing? I see the reference in her note to the "last months" and that the sex has been good. Is she not doing the things you want in bed? Is she still holding thing back from you? If so, trust me brother, I hear you and I understand, and that crap has to stop. You were up for the AP when he said "come over", you better be able to do that for me, at least sometimes. And you did all kinds of kinky stuff with the AP? Well, we'll be doing all that and more. And if that's your complaint, I think it's valid, it would be for me, and I think for most men (and some women) it's an absolute prerequisite for R. Putting it bluntly, I better be getting laid like tile if I'm a BS and willing to R. It has to be frequent, it has to be kinky, it has to be intimate, and it has to be initiated by the BS much of the time. That's the deal, you were willing to spend all this time/energy for crappy sex, you better darn well be willing to spend a lot more time/energy repairing what you fixed with some truly spectacular sex.

I needed 2 primary things to start down the path of R. The lies had to stop, and the sex had to be amazing. I know people are going to look at that and cringe, but, I already loved my W. I didn't want her to become a different person for me, and I didn't need her to sign a post-nup, or put her on the street to prove a point. What I did need is to know if I could trust her again (the lies) and know she was committed to making this better and evening the scale with the AP (the blockbuster sex).

All BS's want the lies to stop, so I'd say that'll go without comment. But the sexual stuff is more a male BS request than female (just like a post-nup is more a female request than male), and will likely cause some raised eyebrows. Thing is, I'm not even willing to consider R without it, maybe that makes me a terrible person, but maybe that also just makes me honest with myself. I can't do it. The sex has to be the kind of stuff where you lay around afterwards and think "I can't believe I did that", AND your WS has to be the one thinking it up and making it happen. Because she did a lot of "thinking crap up" and "making that unicorn real" for the AP. It's a question of commitment and love to me as much as anything, and, by their actions, most WS's have proven that their "I love yous" are worth about as much as the breath cost them to take. So they have to show you in other ways, ways that you find important and ways that you care about. Maybe it's not bed sheet tearing sex for you, maybe it's something else. But she needs to figure it out (and help her if you can) and then, once she does, she needs to take the imitative and make those things, whatever they are, happen for you. Things that she would never do for the AP, she should be doing for you.

And, I'm still annoyed at her previous comment, the passive/aggressive needs to stop. It's not your fault, and no amount of love for her will suddenly make the A just go away, no matter how much she wants it to be the case.

I don’t know if there is anything she could Do now to go towards it..I really have no feeling when it comes to her now. I barely even see her as human anymore much less even a woman. Her thing has always been try something and if it doesn’t work bail..if I don’t react how she wants it..bail and stop trying..she’s what my grandfather would call a half asser..give half ass attempt and if it doesn’t work just stop. So today went bad..screw tomorrow..it will just be bad no matter what too..oh he called me a name..so now I’m her mind I do it everyday..which is part of why she cheated..no one can have a fight with her and let it settle and start trying to fix things. All she cares about is her half ass attempt..because I don’t accept it and jump for joy well..he’s just a pos..he doesn’t care or appreciate my half ass work..she gave him everything from day one no matter what..getting caught, his wife threatening suicide nor when his wife got prego..she actually asked him “are you sure this is what you wanna do with your wife prego?” WTF!!!! His wife begged her to stop the first time they were caught..the second time they were caught his wife threatened to kill herself.. wife gets prego and 16 weeks later loses the baby...they have 3 boys the same age as our 3...and still she wouldn’t ever give him up..But if I did anything I was the bad guy always..

I don’t know if there is anything she could Do now to go towards it..I really have no feeling when it comes to her now. I barely even see her as human anymore much less even a woman.

Gently, I think you need to work towards seeing her as a human. Even if you divorce, she will be the mother of your children. You will always have her in your life no matter what. The healthier of a relationship you two can form for them the better it will be for them. If you can try and stay for them for all this time, I know that you want the best for them.

You may never see her as a wife again, that could be true. But, what I believe is this:

Anger is the bodyguard of sadness. I think that sometimes men especially feel being sad or still loving their mate after they have cheated is a weakness. They are humiliated, emasculated, and they build a wall of Anger as a defense mechanism. Sometimes for there to be great hate there is also great love. I am not saying work on any of these things for her, but for yourself and your children. You have ever right to feel anything and everything. You have been traumatized, betrayed, and taken for granted. What I am concerned about for you is staying stuck in the anger is not going to be best for your health or your quality of life. Get in touch with some of the other feelings. I am sorry, I can just tell that the pain is so great here that you have just shut down altogether. Maybe the D would help you to feel like you took control of the situation, but these other feelings aren't going to go away without working through some of them.

I will leave you alone now, I don't want to bombard you. And, I know there has to be a piece of you thinking "You cheated on your husband too, what do you know". But, just know that I genuinely wanted to help you in some way, and I will pray for you and your wife.

If I knew what it would take I’d have an answer..but that’s the problem..I don’t think there is anything..the more I read and the more I talk to people the more I see this as just D territory. That’s prob why I’m stuck..still clinging onto this person I was married to but no longer have...this thing I live with isn’t the woman I married nor the woman I would have chosen to spend my life with and have children with...I always wanted her to be my one...what a fool for believe she was...what a shame for me falling for her...what guilt I have for not leaving here long ago..now my children pay for me believing in her...

Tex - your bitterness and utter contempt for your WW comes through loud and clear. I completely understand being so torn about pursuing your own healing or just toughing it out for the kids. The real issue is that your fear of life-after-divorce is unrealistic and based on one-off horror stories. Listen to a divorce lawyer lay out the most probable result of ending your marriage. Child support, visitation or shared custody, co-parenting - all the things that are scary to think about. He can't promise exactly what the results will be but he can enlighten you about these things based on experience with other clients. Instead of trying to decide your path with so much fear, uncertainty, and doubt hanging over you - educate yourself and make an informed choice.

Several women have made good posts. Yes the

sex could of not been porn star quality.

Though in some affairs the WW did have PS sex.

WW's even when being honest are still doing

damage control. You know, being honest while

avoiding being brutal. Then still trying to smooth

things over a bit after revealing a fact. The

old spoon with sugar to help the medicine go down.

TH, you as other BH's will never get 100% of the

truth. You were never there. You can never prove

that WW is minimizing. All you can do is weigh

out the situation and accept or reject her story.

Tex

Have you done an IC work?

Have you and your WW done any MC work?

Have you talked to an attorney to get a clear picture of D?

Nothing will get you out of your misery other than you… You need to do the work…