SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So, in another post I explained how I found evidence of contact even after ww agreed to no contact (cc receipt from store om works at for the exact cost of a cheap cell phone. I posted about it and got a lot of advice to keep collecting hard evidence with a var, etc, as the more I have the less she can deny when confronted.

Well, I also spoke with my sister who D'ed a few years back because of her wh. Ugh. She said "Confront! Confront now! Right Away!" She said that the longer it goes on, the harder it is to stop, the more in the fog ww will get, that I already know and I need to confront (already had two ddays). She said she that if she could do anything differently with her situation it would have been to confront and 180 from the moment she found out.

I'm conflicted, I don't know what to do here. I don't know how emotionally ready I am to confront, but I don't want to let this continue on also if indeed I have any influence to that effect. I don't know what to do.

(((UAC))))

It is such a confusing time.

Collecting evidence is to be able to have hard proof, irrefutable proof that it is happening. Many times, there is a gut feeling something is not right. Even with it staring them in the face IE walking in on them, they will still find a way to justify and minimize and make it NOT what it is.

I wish I had not confronted as quickly as I did. It would have given me time to collect evidence.

Instead, I went through two months of lies and TT. If I had some measure of where the truth lay, it would have been a hell of a lot easier than the hell I went through. If we had divorced, I would have had something to support the divorce claim.

It depends on several factors. In my situation, I was meticulous about gathering as much evidence as I could (even though there wasn't much). For me, it paid off very well because although I didn't know all of the details of her past infidelities, I had so much of her daily life surveilled that anything she tried to cover-up pretty much backfired on her. She quickly realized that she wasn't going to get anything past me, and she spilled the beans. She came out of her fog relatively quickly, became repentant, and has worked very hard on R. Fortunately, I didn't have to deal with all the gaslighting, and the trickle-truth was kept to a minimum.

I think whether you want to gather evidence depends primarily on what you know about your spouse, her activities, and how you think she'll react to confrontation. It also depends on your level of comfort (which you alluded to). If you think she's likely to take things underground, gaslight, deny, etc., then the more you know, the better. Reconciliation won't happen easily if she doesn't treat you with total honesty, transparency, and full disclosure. If you can't tell if she's lying or what she's up to, then it's hard to know if you're dealing with false R.

Also, if you have measures in place to detect bad behaviors after confrontation (like contacting OP), then you know if she's headed down the path of R or the path of continued infidelity. Knowing those pertinent means of communication before confrontation (email passwords, voicemail access, using a VAR, and so on) will help keep you out of the dark in the aftermath.

Overall, it can help you in deciding whether it's worth it trying to repair a marriage or getting out of it.

Just my 2¢.

[This message edited by ChoppingOnions at 1:51 AM, July 12th (Tuesday)]

Well, if you are ready to confront it is possible to bluff and get more info than you bargained for, i speak from experience.

What I regret most, after reading about ChoppingOnion's experience, was not having survelliance in place right before confronting. Because it is the storm of coverup activity, or lack thereof, afterward that is most telling, and I lost that opportunity.

I hacked in to WH's email account where I found out most of the evidence I needed to confront him.

But I sat on the evidence for 8 days hoping to get more but as they were communicating mostly by FB and phone I decided to confront.

But every day, for those 8 days, I asked him point blank if he was having an affair. He'd gaslight me of course.

On the 8th day asked again if he was having an affair. "Oh no I'd never ever cheat on you". Then I shoved a copy of one of their FB conversations that skankyho had kindly emailed to him to keep. He STILL thought he could get away with it until I told him to read the last page - his recent love letter to her.

A WS will gaslight you. The reason we collect hard evidence is so they can't baffle you with more lies when you finally confront them.

You will know when you have enough evidence.

Here's another reason. After I found out my WH was having an EA I got into my WH's email account. There was really nothing. They weren't emailing, they were talking. Then one day I went back in & surprise, surprise I saw a folder that said "pharma". I found out that he ordered ED pills online 2x (read my profile if you want to know the background). I turned into a crazed, out of control wife. I called him and let him have it. I called her and left her a voice mail to remember. He finally confessed, kinda sorta, and during his kinda sorta confession he said to me "I can't believe you went thru my private emails". And he changed his password. Stupid, stupid me, I didn't even print out the proof.

We're not at R yet, he's not ready. So I haven't asked him for openess yet.

If I could go back in time, I never would have handled it like that. I wish I just would've told him I KNOW you slept with her. He would've lied, I should've told him I had proof and demanded he tell me.

By laying it all out on the table I forced him to go into deeper hiding. Dumb dumb dumb.

I now have an old purse that I put everything in. If I decide I want to reconcile - I will dump that purse out in front of him. Or - If I decide I want a divorce - I will dump it out at my attorney's office.

Moral of the story - don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

I had a gut feeling when I read some stuff accidentally on her blackberry. She denied anything and the next day thought we should go talk to someone about our communication problems. I didn't realize we had some. I asked her if she was having an EA with this person and she immediately said looking me straight in the eyes that she has NEVER cheated on me. For some reason I had a gut feeling. I went into her email account where she was so egotistical I guess that she left them still in her inbox. I printed them out and realized what is was looking at. I went into the bathroom and threw up.

When she came home from her business appointment in immediately confronted her. I told her before shenanswers this question of mine one more time, I've been in your emails and have read everything. Then my worst nightmare came true when she came clean. It's been a nightmare for me since. From whatni seenit wasnonly a ONS, but it hurts just as bad that this person I loved, respected and trusted unconditionally would do this to me. 7 months later I'm still in shock and she is adamet about divorce now. She is in counseling trying to forgive herself but doesn't want to help me.

Somendaysninwish I never picked up her blackberry to bypass this pain. My life feels ruined because of it.

Folks say to collect hard evidence because cheaters are also manipulative and will deny the A and place blame for their behavior on the BS.

Folks say to collect hard evidence while having it won't necessarily stop the cheater from trying to deny the A directly to the BS, it does stop the cheater from spinning their lies directly to others who they know have seen the evidence (like family, friends and the court system)

Hard evidence is an intruder on their fantasy which fuels their A.

There are lots of ways for a confrontation to go down as we all know. an emotional BS that has evidence can still get denial and lies. I think when you look them straight in the eyes without a hint of emotion and calmly tell them " i know" and this is how its going to be, then name your conditions to R, even if you dont have hard evidence can be more effective than a bag of evidence and an emotional BS. WS prey on the emotional ones, in my experience. When I was begging him to tell me what was wrong and trying to get him to tell me, I got nowhere. When I calmly told him to cut the shit I know what your doing, he was on the defense. I got him to admit to them sending xxx pix back and forth and had zero proof on it. I told him I had copies and would gladly show them if he wanted, he declined and admitted. Now getting him to admit to having sex with her, nope he wont admit cuz he knows I cant prove it.

My point is be direct, confident, and calm, it makes them nervous and throws them off.

My STBXWH is such a convincing liar, I wanted to have solid PROOF for myself and him so I wouldn't buy his lies. I had GPS proof and e-mails.

He lied to my face and then I'd say "Really, are you going to make me get the emails, etc for you?".

I knew he was cheating for two weeks (while I gathered all the proof).....and I'd still lay in his arms at night and ask if he's cheating....and he'd say no.

Under,

It doesnt have to be one or the other. Maybe you do both but each time you do it starts to drive further underground. Read what chopping said and if you have 2 days read His whole thred chopping onions, . No really, listen to him...

You also habe enough to say im out, its adealbreaker. So if you are done survaillane and want to pull the plug then do it. However you seem to want you marriage, so you need to shake the hell out of her fog. Evidence or lawyer usually work. See the posts from past. Hope you find peace.

LHAP?

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 8:13 PM, July 12th (Tuesday)]

Collecting evidence makes it so that you don't feel crazy if they try to gaslight you. It gives you information to look at when you are questioning yourself.

In your case, I bet your WS would tell you that she bought X and that was the price and that she doesn't have the receipt or she could prove to you that she didn't buy a cell phone.

Collecting evidence will tell you how far back in she is and won't let her lie to you.

We all want to believe them even when we 'know' they are lying. When we have proof, we can't believe the lies.

One member here sat and waited for months while collecting evidence through VAR and GPS and she was clear that if she didn't have that evidence she would have believed his lies he was that convincing.

You confront when you are ready.

Thank you everyone. The last time I confronted it was because she was treating me like shit. She yelled at me for giving her a card on our anniversary!! Um... That's when I confronted with the evidence I had at the time. She lied to me, protested, screamed about how her life sucks (she actually is having a very hard time with a number of things in her life, and I have wanted to help her) but I figured if she is going to be so mean and pissy then I should just confront since her mood is already so poor. She is getting into that mode again where I can do no right, which to me tells me she is making me out to be the bad guy to justify her being in contact with om. So, if she pushes me into a shitty mood corner then I will probably confront her in the next day or two. You can be sure I'll share the experience here. ugh. I want to go to another planet.

Under,

YOU know what information you have.

YOU know that she lied to you, and probably still is in contact with OP.

You are not in a court of law; you do not need hard evidence here if you accept that you are not going to be treated this way by her.

When you decide that enough is enough, and you would rather be out of this hell then living right in the middle of it---the hard evidence won't be that significant.

I never saved any of my WW's phone numbers, e-mails, or anything.

I just finally reclaimed enough self-esteem to tell her that I would rather live life without her---and blow up 20+ years together---than not have her fully committed to our marriage.

I would rather file bankruptcy, sell everything I own in this world, and start anew with someone who will treat me with the respect and care that I give to them. And I meant it.

Until you accept---and are uncompromising in what is needed to attempt to rebuild your marriage, then much of it will be smoke and mirrors.

Chopping Onions did an exemplary and monumental task of evidence gathering and time biding before he confronted...and did it textbook perfect.

But the problem with many is that we can't go the the levels that he did. I know I emotionally couldn't have---and I think others here fall into that same category. But that doesn't mean that we are wrong without confronting with concrete evidence...just different about our approach.

Would most people want a smoking gun? Sure. But if you KNOW that there is wrongdoing in your marriage, then you don't have to wait a minute longer than you feel necessary.

Confront if you feel the need. Don't accept anything less than total disclosure. If you don't feel that you are getting it---then you probably aren't.

But that doesn't mean that you have to stay idle.

Work on yourself. Work on detaching emotionally. Work on living life without her. Work towards a future without her.

If she isn't willing to try to save the M, do you really want to stay in it?

You have already been betrayed by infidelity---one of the worst possible hurts in the world. Don't tolerate a minute more of it.

Take this from someone who was a codependent doormat for way too long---If I can get to the point where I can walk away(and I am there)....then you can too.

Whether she fights for you or not, you will be better prepared for the future.

I am a cashier/ asst manager at a grocery store. I think you said you had the receipt right? Assuming it is not a mom and pop shop with an old fashioned register, the receipt should have an item number or inventory number on it. you can call the store and have someone there look up the item or even the sale itself. My register/ computer will store sales for years. you can get the specifics of the sale, including the cashier.

When you decide that enough is enough, and you would rather be out of this hell then living right in the middle of it---the hard evidence won't be that significant.

I never saved any of my WW's phone numbers, e-mails, or anything.

I just finally reclaimed enough self-esteem to tell her that I would rather live life without her---and blow up 20+ years together---than not have her fully committed to our marriage.

I would rather file bankruptcy, sell everything I own in this world, and start anew with someone who will treat me with the respect and care that I give to them. And I meant it.

Until you accept---and are uncompromising in what is needed to attempt to rebuild your marriage, then much of it will be smoke and mirrors.

All the above is very great advice...I am re-reading for myself almost 2.5 yrs down the road. This is great advice now and later.

You are the one in control. Another quote I really like from SI:

"you are not the winner, you are the prize."

This is the type of self worth you need to get thru this swamp. You will survive!

Reading Chopping Onions posts is like watching Michael Jordan and saying I wanna play basketball like that. He, and many others on here are great. Keep posting and listen to your gut. If and when you decide you're done, you won't need to snoop any longer.

If you think she will lie about the A in a confrontation, then you need evidence to refute what she is saying.

Many of us do not get to choose whether to confront. My FWH confessed while driving down the freeway. I jumped out of the vehicle. Not really a confrontation, I suppose, but a little unique.

You might skip the evidence collecting if you are sure enough to go toe to toe with her. I think the whole point is that knowledge is power, and collecting evidence arms us with truth to stand up to the lies.

Good luck.

If you are in a "fault state" you will need that evidence should you decide to file for divorce on grounds of adultery.