SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

OK, so its been 7 weeks since dday and I have been, well, shall I say- nuts. Hired a lawyer within 2 days and told my wife that it was over. Without a doubt she crushed me under her heel by leaving me and the kids at a hotel at the beach to drive back and meet her OM and spend the night with him. The weekend was supposed to be about coming back together and working on out marriage. She apparently double booked. I found out Sunday morning what she did when I finally got into her yahoo email. Its turned out to be a 2 year LTA with a mOM.

No remorse. No empathy. nothing. I cried like a baby and got no comfort or compassion.

She later called me and said she didnt want a divorce. I told her there was no way I could get over the way she hurt me.

Well after a week later, I sobered up and came to realize I was very much still in love with her. So I told her, I want to get past this, somehow someway if she would show me she felt the same way. Well, I didn't get the answer I wanted. She didn't want me back. She did later change her mind and agreed to IC and MC. However MC was rough. We only made 2 sessions when C said we weren't ready. WW said she didn't want to come back. Lots of other 'crazymaking' in the weeks since. Mostly by me. I've been very depressed and unable to sleep, eat, function.

So, today I met with one of her friends who works at my company. They are good friends. She tells me my WW definitely doesn't want D. I have really felt that she was ambivalent and wanting D. She has told me to file on 3-4 occasions. I have preparing for the worse. Her BFF goes on to tell me that WW is waiting to see if I am going to stop beating her down and lashing out at her over the A before she will entertain 'working it out'. She is waiting for me to show her I can change from the H I was before and make her happy.

Here I am today, completely floored. I have felt gutted, stuffed, mounted. Telling her I want R. Asking her to say she wants R. She could never say it- At least not to me. But apparently has been saying otherwise to her friends. She has been unhappy with me for a long time. And I can see my part in some of it. I remember the MC telling her that this was not a justification for her A. She has continues her IC.

I really don't know what to do. Swallow my pride, read more books? Should I try being the Mr. nice guy all is forgiven and I promise not to beat you up over the A? I suppose there is a means to end here, but I can't accept (in the longterm) that the A was my fault. If I can get us back to the point she will go back to MC, then these issues can come out and be dealt with in a healthier manner.

The hardline approach everyone here talks up is not working.

Not to sound trite, but she is showing you who she is. She wants recovery on her terms. OH F**K NO!!

File. Cut her loose. If she really wants back, let her start begging.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 1:20 PM, September 5th (Wednesday)]

That's what I am saying - That approach has only made things worse.

There is always a plan B.

Get her back into MC and get what i want, and need in there. If I file, for sure its cooked. Shit, I don't like any of this and have had a terrible time. The fact that I don't want D and she doesn't want D - There has to be an alternative than the nuclear option. Something that perhaps starts with me, and gets me what I need to feel safe.

Her BFF goes on to tell me that WW is waiting to see if I am going to stop beating her down and lashing out at her over the A before she will entertain 'working it out'. She is waiting for me to show her I can change from the H I was before and make her happy.

She doesn't want D because it's inconvenient.

If you let her back in without her proving that she's safe, she's just going to douse you in gasoline and burn you down all over again. IMO you need to set D in motion in order to divorce her, not to scare her into your marriage.

You can't love her back, you can't reason her back, and being patient is just going to be a road to more of the same. She won't change because she won't have to.

My point is that the way things are going, I think a D is the road your on. Your in a catch 22 so you may as well cut her loose, get the pain out of your life and move on.

She doesn't want a D but won't consider R unless its on her terms. What kind life will it be for you if you agree to that?

Done play hard ball, leave the game. D her and build a better life without her. If she comes crawling back, deside then if YOU want HER back. And I'd say your better off without her.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 1:58 PM, September 5th (Wednesday)]

I would suggest telling her friend that you have not seen any sign from her that she wants to save the marriage, or even cares how she hurt you by having her affair, so based on that you don't really have a lot of choices.

If she really doesn't want the D, then she has to be thinking the same things as you, only she has something clearly identifiable that she can do. As for stuff that starts with you, she doesn't seem to care that she had an A, and that really doesn't give you much to work with. What are you supposed to do, agree to a one sided open marriage? Does your WW's friend even know why your WW does not want a divorce? Many people try to avoid divorce not because they love their spouse, but because it would inconvenience their lifestyle.

ETA:

Please understand that the hardline approach people are suggesting to you is not about saving your marriage, it is about saving you. If your WW decides she wants the marriage, and you can save it as well, that is a bonus.

[This message edited by aesir at 2:03 PM, September 5th (Wednesday)]

Should I try being the Mr. nice guy all is forgiven and I promise not to beat you up over the A?

that would be rugsweeping... and I can practically guarantee that if that happens and she doesn't work on the "why" that she will step out again... happened with me.

then, you will be back to where you are now trying to figure out what the hell happened and how the hell to fix her.

[This message edited by pmal64 at 2:06 PM, September 5th (Wednesday)]

WW is waiting to see if I am going to stop beating her down and lashing out at her over the A

So she wants no repercussions for her actions? She only wants to R if we can just forget about it and move on? She doesn't want to deal with your feelings, and then maybe she'll consider it?! Really?! Must be a nice fantasy world she's living in.

I agree with aesir,

I would suggest telling her friend that you have not seen any sign from her that she wants to save the marriage, or even cares how she hurt you by having her affair, so based on that you don't really have a lot of choices.

I would further reinforce that because your WW had an A that she must prove, through actions, that she is willing to accept (reasonable) consequences including being understandable, listening and understanding your "lashing out". Seriously, if I ever "lashed out" regarding the A and my FWH told me to be nice, I'd walk out.

This is what i have in mind (not rugsweeping):

http://www.marriageadvocates.com/2012/02/10/the-betrayed-spouses-role-after-an-affair/

Your story is horrible. Not going to tell you what to do because I'm just a month out myself, but I think of myself and the work I have left to do, with a wife that is regretful and committed to trying to reconcile right out of the box and I read your story .... you are in for a long long long climb that ultimately might not work. Her wanting assurances that you'll be a good boy before even starting to reconcile says to me that she has a staggeringly long way to go.

Why was she unhappy with you? I ask because the only reason I can see why she might justifiably not want you to beat her up over the affair before attempting reconciliation is if you had anger issues.

Complete aside, but what the hell is it with Yahoo mail? That's what my wife used as well. Do they offer a cheater special where you get a bigger inbox or something?

kchip}}}

How about telling her (or writing her) something like this...

WW,

I know you don't want me to keep "beating you up" over the A. I know you want me to change and become a better husband. I do intend to change but I need you to understand a couple of things. First, I do not intend to go back to status quo. I do want to improve and change my end of our pre-A issues, but you have to understand that never made it ok to have the A. I need you to accept that and own that. Secondly, I don't want to beat you up over the A. I don't like lashing out over it. What I want and need is your remorse. Remorse in recognizing the awful pain I am in over this A. That pain is because of how much I LOVE YOU despite the A. When you fail to recognize and appreciate that pain it is like invalidating my love for you. It also makes it difficult to believe you love me because how can you love someone and not feel remorse over hurting them. It really isn't about lashing out at you. I gain nothing from it. We gain nothing from it. But the pain and frustration are that powerful when it feels like you are discarding our M and disregarding me so completely. If that isn't how you feel then tell me. Just tell me. I don't want to spend the rest of our lives together for the sake of punishing you. I want a stronger, more loving M to come out of this horrible mess."

Firm but not hardline imho. Just a thought.

I'll offer a minority opinion. Going 180 or setting firm boundaries is not about punishing your WW. It is about helping you by putting yourself together and ending non-attractive co-dependency. I have seen myself take my anger and go into 'punish' mode. She can see the light and fix herself without having to be punished. You need to measure that progress and stop worrying about 'justice'.

In short, make yourself so affable, strong, and willing to forgive (as a thing to come) that you draw her to you.

My suggestion is that you express a full willingness to hear openly about her pain of the M (PRE-A) and work to make your SHARE of M changes (you take responsibility), in exchange for her hearing about your A pain and taking full responsibility for the A. Offer leadership showing a path to healing by swallowing pride and work on things.

If she is unwilling to follow your example, your compassion, your willing to look at everything uncritically, then by all means cut yourself loose. You have to hold your anger at bay. It sux, BELIEVE ME I know. I was (and will later) just about to post a concern about grinding down my WW into a broken down, hopeless pulp with my anger and attempts to 'punish'.

PM me anytime.

So here is a Plan B.

There's no way that your WW should be dictating the terms of R. I think you need to cut her loose.

Incidentally, I found out about my wife's A through Yahoo mail as well.

That's what I am saying - That approach has only made things worse.

This statement here says that you have the misconception that you can control her actions/reactions/choices. That you are somehow responsible for the hell this woman brought into your life and heart.

You are not.

This approach is meant to protect you.

I remember being where you are at. If I could just find the right words, the best approach, the most support for him, be patient enough, more sex, less selfishness, and of course, none of it ever "worked."

It will never "work" because the work that needs to be done must be done by her. You didn't cause it, you can't change it, you can't control it.

The only person you can manage is yourself. You have to have enough love for yourself to know you should not be treated this way.

Waiting for her to see you deserve better, is never going to happen for sure while you don't believe it yourself.

I very much like Brandons idea. Not only that but the wording of the letter seems spot on

kchip, that article reads like propaganda to me.

My wife and I are in a good place. It turned around at zero hour and she had a few false starts but picked up momentum and really threw everything into the mix to make this work for us.

The problem with that article is that there's a lot of good ideas and advice presented in a destructive order. Yes, everyone should listen and really hear their spouses. Everyone should be safe for their loved ones, and everyone can only control themselves.

That is the key there. You can do these things, but you do them for yourself. You cannot control her reaction, and you cannot expect her to reciprocate.

The absolute worst piece of advice in that article, one that will lead to misery nearly every time IMO, is that the BS needs to lead for recovery.

That's like telling a wounded man he needs to lead the charge. Again. For the third time. You charged up that beach and took a 50 mm but survived. You're on the sand bleeding out, but you get up again and then go down... what do you think the end result of this is going to be? Even if you make it to the line, even if you win through, nobody was there to carry you. Nobody was there to pick you up, unless you believe in gods or saints, so who is going to be there when you're done and won and still need patching up or else you'll bleed out anyway?

You need to take a lead in recovery, but take it for yourself. Many waywards will, like my wife did, see the end of the road and try to turn it around. But if you do this with the idea in mind that it can save your marriage, you're going to get to the end there and then wonder why you did anything at all, if things beyond your control - namely, your WW - don't pan out how you want.

You can still love her, feel for her, even help her when she asks, but you can't go into this thinking you can change her by changing yourself. The nuclear option was already used, she pushed that button, you're just deciding the cleanup now.

Protect yourself, really. If she wants to go to MC and work on things, excellent. Don't make compromises you will regret later, though.

My suggestion is that you express a full willingness to hear openly about her pain of the M (PRE-A) and work to make your SHARE of M changes (you take responsibility), in exchange for her hearing about your A pain and taking full responsibility for the A.

I also back this suggestion. But this needs to come after she realises she can't expect your efforts to precede hers.

She is waiting for me to show her I can change from the H I was before and make her happy

Is she serious???

Communicating through her BFF is certainly not as effective as communicating directly with one another. If she has any interest in honestly saving the M she destroyed via her A then she needs to dialog with you not via her friend.

Your WWs words and actions are far from remorseful. She really has a long way to go in that department.

Remember: you were both in a the same M, you both were probably unhappy but she was the one that stepped out, not you...there is a lot to be said about that. Neither of you were perfect in the M but you had enough integrity not to venture down that dark path of *ultimate betrayal* IMO: Nothing compares to that.

I have to agree with those that suggest she is less than remorseful and that you should not give in to her needs/demads. It is your needs that should be front and center right now.

You may benefit from an Aug 30th post in Just Found Out titled, If You Love Them, Divorce Them.

Also, it would be advantageous to collect any proof of the A and secure it in a safe place. In the event of a D this could be beneficial to you.

So very sorry that you find yourself in this situation, it is horrible and no one deserve that pain. {{{Kchip}}}

[This message edited by RidingHealingRd at 3:03 PM, September 5th (Wednesday)]

Her BFF goes on to tell me that WW is waiting to see if I am going to stop beating her down and lashing out at her over the A before she will entertain 'working it out'.

Wow.

This is one of the most selfish, unremorseful things I have ever heard from a WS who allegedly wants R.

This is right up there with my 5 year old saying "promise you won't be mad?" before telling me what he did.

I know you're hurting, and have been there, but one of the things I told my fWH when he was worried that I wasn't all in after a false R was "I need you to show me you are commited whether I'm ready to be or not."

Your WW did not have an A because you didn't make her happy. She just didn't. If you change hoping she will, what is her motivation? The next time you're "not making her happy" what new and helpful coping mechanism will she have in her tool kit? The answer is, nothing.

If you weren't a perfect husband, you can work on that. But that should not be what your R is based on initially. It should be based on repairing the damage caused by the A, and then by addressing the M issues that were pre-existing.

(((kchip)))

So, let me get this straight. You need to shape up, show her that you can make her happy, and do so without complaining or being angry about the A? Well, maybe you could go around on all fours and fetch her slippers for her, too.

She's playing you like a harp. If my WW had said something like that to me or had relayed it through a friend in that manner, I would be gone. "Entertain 'working it out'" is a bunch of doo doo. I don't know of any BSs who came away from D-Day without any anger at all. She is trying to pin the blame for the A on you. Either she wants R and is remorseful, or not. It's not about entertaining the idea of R or thinking about how you should be a better husband so she doesn't feel the urge to cheat.

Why do you think that she now has the capacity to turn around and suddenly be happy with you? Are you struggling with this whole matter because you are afraid of being single?

The hardline approach is all about taking care of yourself. Giving up on your needs and playing the role of doormat is for the birds.