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Fwh met ow  years before he met me. Fell in love and besides me she is the only person that ever touched his life, he says. I get that.

I was asking him to tell me about how he despises her for what she has done to our family and that she is a bad person. I wanted him to let me know he finally "got it", that she was also responsible for the kids' trauma and that she only "looooooved" him for his status. He wouldn't, alarmbells went off and yesterday he said that he loves me, will never have contact again and wants to grow old with me etc, because in ic he learned about why he cheated, and that is not how he wants to deal with his inner problems again.

But should we ever be divorced, he cannot rule out seeing her again. He still thinks she is a "nice" person and still likes her. Even though he has evidence and knows she manipulated him and lied, to him she is a regular person with a few flaws.

I reminded him of the things she said to encourage him to leave me, and how she indicated it wouldn't be a bad thing if he didn't see the kids again. How she didn't mind robbing them of their security, and that it would be totally disrespectful to them if he ever saw her again.

He doesn't see it that way.

Do these feelings go away ? Is he still in the fog ?

Is it possible to R with someone who thinks like this ?

Or am I setting myself up for more heartbreak in the future?

Wow. Yes, he's still in the fog for sure. Sorry, but he doesnt get it.

I always thought that since the OW was my M's enemy, she should be my FWH's enemy too when we decide to R ?

It seems to me - by what you said - that he is still in the fog. I k ow that for me it would be difficult to R with this....

Has he mentioned this to his IC?

He has just had 3 sessions of IC, the next one is in about a week. Our DD is quite recent. I bugged him about this for 3 days- "Why can't you tell me she is not your friend ?"- and he said he first had to admit to himself, that he will never hate her and she is "under his skin", before he could admit it to me.

I bugged him about this for 3 days- "Why can't you tell me she is not your friend ?"- and he said he first had to admit to himself, that he will never hate her and she is "under his skin", before he could admit it to me.

This is the problem with "bugging" a freshly minted WS to say what we need to hear. The more I jabbed and dug and demanded that JM hate OW while he was still fresh out of it and trying to figure out his feelings, the more he felt sorry for her. See, she was a pitiful, abused little person that life had treated SO horribly and he was supposed to be her savior. When I nagged him to hate her, he dug in his heels because if she was just a piece of trash who tried to destroy our M and nearly did destroy me, then it was all for nothing.

What he didn't realize at the time, but gradually came to realize, was that it WAS all for nothing. She was nothing. But he had to get there without me.

Did I sit there and let him moon over her and feel sorry for himself? Nope. I wrote him a letter at one point and said that I understood that there were feelings he needed to resolve, that any time a relationship ends, there are feelings that hurt. But that he had no right to have had that relationship, and he was on his own. I didn't want to hear about it, I didn't want to see it, but he better damn well figure it out and get over it.

He did.

I know how much this hurts. Your dday is SO fresh. But I promise that nagging your WH to tell you what you need to hear is ONLY going to backfire and cause you pain. Protect your heart, Sweetie. Get into IC yourself, if you're not already, and learn to heal with or without him.

All the pointing out in the world of what a manipulating bi*ch she is will fall on deaf ears. Oh, he may agree with some of it to appease you but this is a realization he must come to himself. I wouldn't doubt he takes it underground, seems he likes cake. I am so sorry. You can't change his thoughts, he has to do that.

I think it took about 18 months for my FWH to stop romanticizing the affair. To realize that there was no part of his relationship with her that wasn't cheating.

It sounds lke he is still in his fantasy world of how great the OW is. He has not yet come out of the fog and realized what he has really done and you trying to make him see her for what she is will just backfire on you. BTDT. I also tried to make my WH#2 see that the OW was just a manipulative, selfish, pitiful woman who had some major issues. He took it underground for another year until she outed him to me again. Only then did he start to actual see how manipulative she was and how she was distroying his life and family. Even now I think he still feels sorry for her and the way he lied and manipulated her as well as me. I also think if we don't make it, he will go back to OW. He is that weak of a person that he will do what is easy in the end. That is why he is still here with me. It was easier to break off the affair with her than to get a D and lose everything with me. He is basically just a dry cheater at this point and will most certainly cheat again if he gets the chance. He has shown me who he is and I believe him now.

In IC he realized he had distanced himself from his parents as a very young child because his parents mentally abused him. We saw their behavior return in their actions with our own children and he decided: no more. We haven't seen them in quite a while.

What is this weird thing where he admits a friend doesn't lie or manipulate you, therefor she is not his friend, but somehow she is forgiven for all she has done ?

Your last D-Day was only 2 months ago, so he's still pretty mesmirized with this woman.

Of course he doesn't see she was manipulative and selfish because he's still seeing her through rose-colored glasses. It might take a long time before he's smart enough to realize what she was doing was not healthy or in anyone's best interests.

I don't think he's had near enough IC to get to the real root of his issues. He isn't yet at a healthy place, so you aren't going to get a healthy answer to this question. I think I would stop asking this question for a bit of time. Not too much, because I believe in holding their feet to the fire. But it could be too early for him to understand this all yet.

I have tried to be cheerful but felt like throwing up all day. Remembering yesterday, when he told me that she is an option should we not be together anymore makes me so very sick.

wow that's unbelievably stupid and heartless for him to say. but is your dday the same as your registration date? if so i think that what others have said so far is right on the mark.

there is a chance he's trying to make you feel guilty in some way/justify his "love" feelings, that she really did mean something

My first DD is Oct 2010, then, after broken NC, my second is of this year.

Even though I know there is more, I really do think the first affair was him totally being lost in life and seeking external validation because things were chaotic at home-... and there she was: his fan !

The second is sort of similar- I was emotionally unavailable and he was looking for someone to take my place and tell him things will be ok.

But- even though it was an EA and he realizes real love is what him and I have, not the fairy world they created, he is still saying she is a serious-relationship-candidate.

I feel sick. I'm in the living room with FWH and the kids and I feel like bawling.

[This message edited by AmberDust at 7:08 AM, November 14th (Thursday)]

I think I am going to retract my previous statement. He has been torturing you with this woman for 2.5 years and still says something like that to you, after yet another chance? Honey, if you aren't going to hefty bag his shit, then at the very least it is time for you to go out and spend today by yourself. Alone. Begin the 180, because I am not certain he is R material. Take the focus off of him and put it on yourself. Be kind to yourself. And demand more.

I may have explained it wrong- after his first affair he went NC and then after 2 years broke NC.

Amber,

He does not see her actions as wrong and manipulative. He sees her actions as her loving him so much - because he is so AWESOME she couldn't help herself - that she would sacrifice anything and anyone to be with him because he is so hot and awesome, and his dick is the greatest dick ever because she never got over it. She isn't bad, she just loves and wants him ssoooo much. And he can understand that, right, because he is so awesome and she was only correct in giving him all her admiration and attention he enjoyed.

He doesn't see her as a bad person for realizing how hot and awesome he is and for missing sex with him. Because, you know, she couldn't help herself, because he is the awesome-est guy ever with two women fighting for him all this time.

So there is your real problem. It's not her. It's him. It's how he views himself, how he views you (does he think you are awesome, too, or just another woman who fights for his awesomeness and is his personal staff?)

She would never have been an issue, ever, no matter how much she contacted him and begged for him if he his head and ethics had been in the right place. If she had moved to Jupiter four years ago and couldn't contact him, it would have just been some other woman who acted impressed by him and that he went after at whatever stage of life he had hit.

[This message edited by Heavy Sigh at 12:55 PM, May 26th (Sunday)]

double post

[This message edited by Heavy Sigh at 9:17 AM, May 27th (Monday)]

He sees her actions as her loving him so much - because he is so AWESOME she couldn't help herself - that she would sacrifice anything and anyone to be with him because he is so hot and awesome, and his dick is the greatest dick ever because she never got over it. She isn't bad, she just loves and wants him ssoooo much.

This really hit home for me, Heavy Sigh, even if it didn't for AmberDust.

t/j FWH hates OW, but I think he feels this way. I feel he relishes the idea that this OW has spent the last 15 years in pursuit of him and his awesome dick.