SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Was chatting with a friend a little bit ago about possibly going to a bar near my house tonight. There are a couple of places within walking/cabbing distance that became usual haunts back when the STBXWW was in the picture. One bar in particular I only went to because she liked it. For a myriad of reasons I won't go into in great detail, I always detested the place.

Anyway, it got me thinking and reminiscing about things, both good and bad. The bar I mentioned before was the site of one of my worst blow-ups towards her. She knew I hated this bar, but she knew I went because she enjoyed it. Much of my disdain was the people who ran it and the general crowd. Seemed most nights she got waay too drunk there, and people started getting flirty, sometimes handsy with her right in front of me, and I had to run interference. Looking back, maybe I don't blame that so much on the patrons as much as I did, but it seemed to happen more at this place than any other we went to.

One night, she wants to go up there. She says it'll be an hour or 2 at most. I agree. We were there from about 8pm until they closed at 2am. I was not happy about this. Oh, as it usually happened, the next thing I know, "we're" buying rounds of shots for people I don't particularly like or know. she's the center of attention. my BP is rising. At one point I text her that I'm leaving and I'll just walk home. She asks me whats wrong. I said something next I'm not proud of - "If you don't know by now, maybe we need to get lawyers involved." it just came out.

After we got home, she tried to seduce me, and I basically told her to leave me alone. She starts crying, I ask what the hell is she crying about. I was not at my best that night, but I was just very frustrated. I still didn't need to be as harsh as I was towards her.

She ends up sleeping in the guestroom alone that night - her choice, but I get why.

The next day, I felt horrible. I mean horrible. I felt like a giant jackass in every way. I knew I'd overreacted to everything. When she finally does look at me, it's to say that it's obvious I don't want her around, and she's thinking of going somewhere for a few days. I tearfully tell her that's not what I want at all, and I apologize profusely. She does end up staying.

Oddly, in the days and weeks that followed, a spark kind of came back. In a way, our talk that day kind of reminded us both how much we cared about each other, and the thought of ever being apart was just ridiculous. My childish blow up seemed to bring us closer together in an odd way.

It would be a few months later that d-day would occur. It would be at that time that all those "little" signs I ignored suddenly appeared for what they were. She tells me the A had gone on for ~3 months. I don't know why, but it just occurred to me - between the incident at the bar and d-day, a little more than 3 months passed.

I know it's stupid, but how can I now NOT wonder if I keep my cool that night, maybe I'm not here today?

[This message edited by SoulHurts at 3:16 PM, March 21st (Friday)]

If it hadn't been that night it would have been some other night in some other place.

This is not your fault. Don't go there.

((Hugs))

If I hadn't DVR'd Ghosthunters and watched episodes at night after I put DD to bed, maybe my husband wouldn't have had an affair.

That was one of the excuses he gave me, "All you do is watch Ghosthunters." Really. That's ALL I do.....

Don't play the "what if" game. Nobody should go out and have an affair because of one fight, or because of one watching Ghosthunters, or because 6 years ago, someone threw out someone's favorite ripped shirt, or whatever bullshit reasons we've seen here at SI.

I do that also, don't beat yourself up.

I remember thinking if I only didn't have the front door open and working in back yard he wouldn't have been so pissed and went back to work to tell whoreface how stupid I was, that anyone could have walked in and killed me or raped me. The front glass door was lock but storm door open. And from there everything I did was a blow up for him. He would go behind me after I cleaned and if I missed something the fight was on. So I thought if I paid more attention to detail when I cleaned it wouldn't have happen, if I would have cooked what he wanted, if I would have not been tired, if I would have gave more sex every day, if I would have not said something he took out of context, if I didn't matched his socks right, if I....... list goes on and on.... All of that is not true, he used those to blame me for what he did and I blamed myself also... Don't do that to yourself!

[This message edited by Faithful w/Love at 3:44 PM, March 21st (Friday)]

Thanks nekorb, you're probably right. Even if the A hadn't started, I swear there were signs she may be heading in that direction before that night at the bar. Just the fact she always wanted to go out and get trashed was warning enough. Drinking on a weekend night in and of itself wasn't unusual for us, but she rarely got to black-out stages. By that night, there had been more than a few such nights in the recent history which, again, were out of the ordinary.

I will say she has never tried to blame that night for any of her indiscretions, and we all know how WSs look to blameshift. It would have been easy for her to do so here, but again, she never did. Still, the timing is uncanny.

That was one of the excuses he gave me, "All you do is watch Ghosthunters." Really. That's ALL I do.....

Well you are obviously a horrible person. Yes, that was VERY sarcastic. That's a new "excuse" though.

I see your point too Faithful w/Love. I'm sure if I think about it long enough, I could come up with a ton more "what-ifs?" Guess I just needed to put this out there and get that thought 2x4'd back down where it belongs.

I know it's stupid, but how can I now NOT wonder if I keep my cool that night, maybe I'm not here today?

It's not stupid, it's just misguided. Your actions did not cause hers. Look at it from a different angle, SoulHurts - her actions that night, her lack of boundaries? Those are clear illustrations of how far down the path she already was.

Also? Questioning this stuff is completely normal. It's all part of processing the trauma and progressing your healing.

Agree with Nik on this alot!

But, yes if you think back even longer like I have and push the good memories away, you will start to see the truth of what you didn't see than.

In one of our MC sessions, STBXW told the MC "We just don't have anything in common."

MC - "But you both just told me that you, your husband, and your kids all play hockey."

STXW - "So?"

MC - (look at her with an expression, then holds both her hands out as to say "HELLO!?!?")

MC - "Ok. If you met someone where you had everything in common, you would be dating your clone. Right?"

STBXW - "Well, yeah..."

MC - "Where's the fun in that?"

STBXW - (dumbfounded look)

And the rest of that conversation didn't go anywhere because STBXW just didn't "get it".

Point is, the excuses are all bullcrap. There is no reason your wayward can come up with that can justify an affair because they OWN the choice 100%. Thus, there is no excuse YOU can come up with that would justify any ownership you think you have in her A. Think about it, if the situation was so bad, why didn't YOU flirt with the patrons and have an A yourself if you thought the establishment had such an overriding influence to start A's? It comes down to personal boundaries and self control. You clearly have it. She doesn't.

And the rest of that conversation didn't go anywhere because STBXW just didn't "get it".

I can relate to similar conversations during the brief time we discussed R. Comments like "I don't know what I'd talk to a counselor about" which followed her declarations that she's "losing her mind" give you a look into how broken some people can get. Or, I don't know, the fact that she cheated might be something worth discussing? I must have looked like your MC -

(look at her with an expression, then holds both her hands out as to say "HELLO!?!?")

And thanks for this too -

It comes down to personal boundaries and self control. You clearly have it. She doesn't.

Thanks NIK, Jduff, nekorb, sparkysable, and Faithful w/Love for the strength here.

Uhgggg. SoulHurts, please stop beating yourself up. Your STBXWW's behavior was disgusting and cheap. You had every right to enforce your boundaries.

If you were the woman and she were the man, it would probably be a little more clear. If my STBXH had EVA disrespected me like that right in front of my face, he'd probably meet up with some a chop to the throat and I would have left his ass at the bar.

See, that is the co dependence talking. NOTHING you did wasn't warranted.

Looking back now, I see how much I coddled and enabled my STBXH. Fuck him and good riddance.

She manipulated and lied to you to get you to go to a bar that she had no business wanting to go to in the first damn place. I am a lady, and I would never return to a place if men were that brazenly hitting on me. And the fact that they would do it in front of my H, that is a recipe for getting raped. Not only would I not return, but I damn sure wouldn't lie to my H and tell him only two hours and then manipulate him into everything else that you described.

What you should be asking yourself is why are you doubting yourself with your boundaries? Not what if I had been nicer, would this have happened? Instead of trying to gaslight you and manipulate you into going to such an awful place, she should have been wanting to do something somewhere that you enjoyed going to as well. THAT is part of being in a partnership.

If you were the woman and she were the man, it would probably be a little more clear. If my STBXH had EVA disrespected me like that right in front of my face, he'd probably meet up with some a chop to the throat and I would have left his ass at the bar.

Good point among many StillLivin.

I still don't exactly know what derailed her so much, nor will I ever know. There was "we're not intimate enough," but when I initiate things, I'm "too clingy." There was "you never want to go out." Uh, I don't want to go to the same dumps you do, but we go out ALL THE TIME recently and it's still not enough. Oh, and BTW, I'm not being the social butterfly to everyone else while she sits at a table alone staring at her drink.

So, yeah, I needed this thread...

Honey, I'm gonna break it down for you simple. Ok.

It wasn't YOU! Period.

She has something missing. It has probably been missing for a very long time. But maybe she was able to fake the funk.

If you weren't the BOMB, she would have left without having to cheat.

Because she choose to stay and instead have an A, then the basically showed that 1) she is weak and pathetic, 2) she is classless and doesn't respect HERSELF, and 3) she wanted to have her cake and eat it too.

Ever see a child validate? It is so much more obvious because we are on the outside looking in on a child. But honestly, that's the same crap a wayward does, validate. They are just able to be more manipulative because we have a vested interest, and probably some co dependency too!

Repeat, "I am the bomb, it is sad, but it is her loss!!!" Rinse, lather, repeat until it sticks.

I look back at all his validating and manipulative behavior, and it is now so F'ing obvious. Wow, I was really nice. And I'm pretty, maybe not drop dead gorgeous and can stand to lose a few more pounds. I'm smart, I'm emotionally healthy, I've got much class, I can make a good income. He dropped me, but only after I found out. He had a 3 year LTA. Really, seriously, how miserable and F'ed up can I be if he choose to stay with me. After the fact I found out he had dumped her 2X for wifey before. She is disgusting, stupid, morbidly obese, soft, and extremely vindictive and selfish.

It is them, not us. It really is just that simple. This OM just filled a sick whole she had. She probably wanted to hide that sickness from you because she KNEW it was pathetic and weak.

(((Hugs)))

I still don't exactly know what derailed her so much, nor will I ever know.

At some point you'll reach a point where it just doesn't matter. The bucket has a giant hole in it. It doesn't matter how it got there, it only matters that the damn thing can't hold water.

You're doing great, SoulHurts. It may not feel like it right now, but I promise you are.

It is NEVER the betrayed spouses fault when the WS chooses to cheat. period. dot.

NEVER EVER EVER

Even if your spouse is a cheating bastard - if that's the case then leave your marriage before you start dropping your drawers for a new partner.

It's normal to reflect on our behaviors in the relationship and wonder if something we did or did not do could have caused the A. I think we do this in the hope that it is something within our control, that way we might be able to avoid it in future. Unfortunately we can't control anyone but ourselves which is why the A is not our fault. You can't make someone cheat, they choose that for themselves.

In the early days I wrote up a relationship timeline reflecting on my feelings and behavior. Initially it was prompted by my feelings of guilt for his As but ultimately it was a useful exercise which showed me areas that I am working on to better myself (communication, conflict avoidance, victim mentality etc).

It was also cathartic to see in black and white all the red flags and blatant shite behaviour from him that I worked so hard to deny for so long. It was freeing because in my situation there was just too much that was toxic in the relationship to ever really be worth trying to 'save'.

Echoing what everyone else is telling you: however "mean" you were, she's the one who CHOSE to cheat. She was being "mean" to you, too. Did you cheat?

That's what I thought.

Listen, if I had just paid more attention to my H instead of to our DS's chemo schedule, ER visits, and everything else associated with his medical care (at my H's request, mind you, because he admitted he was not strong enough to face it), if I had done that, well then, he wouldn't have had an A with MCOW.

Yuh huh. I'm not buying that one. And you shouldn't buy "my meanness made her cheat."

Thank you all, seriously (((hugs)))

Repeat, "I am the bomb, it is sad, but it is her loss!!!" Rinse, lather, repeat until it sticks.

I will try

I never ever cheated. Not in revenge, not at all. This is all her. Even if by some crazy chance some woman comes along tomorrow that absolutely takes my breath away and is perfect for me. If she is that woman, she'll understand how we can't enter a relationship until my D is final. I live by my word, my vows, and my promises. It is that simple, and I don't want to be with anyone who doesn't feel the same. Thank you all again for your support.

Listen, if I had just paid more attention to my H instead of to our DS's chemo schedule, ER visits, and everything else associated with his medical care (at my H's request, mind you, because he admitted he was not strong enough to face it), if I had done that, well then, he wouldn't have had an A with MCOW.

Wow...I don't even know what to say. I am so sorry he did that to you period, let alone in a time like that.