SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just wondering about this. We have been through hell before this A, but I always considered my WH a sick, lost man with a good heart. A good person who led himself astray. Now? I'm not so sure. I know how As happen. I pretty much know how his happened. But I no longer look at him and see a good person. And for me, that might be the game changer.

I believe the first thing is to define "good". We won't have the same def as others but we probably share similar meanings. Once you do that review the struggle to do good. It stems from the two conflicting inclinations in every human being. A person has two hearts: one that loves to do the right heart, and one that prefers to be selfish. We need to develop an awareness of the struggle going on inside us.

No matter what in life no one is perfect. No matter what in life a minor sin holds as much weight as a huge one. They are both sins.

Want" is for permanence. It is rooted in reality. "Desire" is for the moment, with little regard for future with little regard for future consequence. It is an escape. I know you have escaped before.

With every decision, these hearts clash and create a dilemma. To be triumphant in the battle to be good, you have to focus on your innate desire to be good.

If he has qualities that you've admired and sometimes imitated, I would assume that he has some good in him and he is a good person like most of our partners that have went astray.

It is so hard to view it like this right now bc we all are hurting/disappointed and bc you know you would never cheat, and dont understand his lack of self control. However, you are staying. He is trying to reconcile. Why? Bc your bond w/ him- you knowing him unlike any other person, knows he can be good. You/We just wanted that goodness to last forever.

Best wishes

T.T.F.N. Tah Tah For Now.

yes.

My 1st WS (the one that brought me to this site)....No. He is a predator/sociopath. He uses people. He is not a good person, but he pretends to be. He has a public facade, and then there is the real him. He has a black heart.

My new SO who had an EA on me? Yes. He is a good person who made a stupid choice. He is willing to put in the hard work to fix this. That is why I am still with him.

I no longer look at him and see a good person. And for me, that might be the game changer.

That was, for me, the game changer.

There are two types of "cheaters". One is a good person who makes a bad decision and gets "stuck" in it.

The other is a bad person who is not at all trapped, rather continually decides to stay in the muck and mire.

Behind door #1, there is a possible reconciliation.

Behind door #2, there isn't. Just more hurt and heartache.

He is willing to put in the hard work to fix this.

This is how you can tell them apart.

[This message edited by tfkeel at 7:45 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)]

Yes.

and totally agree with post by tfkeel!

I see my FWW as a good person. But I also now realize that she was broken and that she has a selfish side that I never knew about before. She has a good heart and is/has been working to fix the broken parts. Had she not been a good person, I would have never married her in the first place. Sometimes good people do foolish, selfish, awful things.

I try to stay away from the good/bad thing because it makes me feel judgemental. My WW is a flawed human being, like all others but also unlike any other. She let me down; she let herself down. She made terribly destructive choices that hurt me, herself, and us deeply.

If what tfkeel says is true, that there are two types of cheaters, then I am pretty sure my WW is a #1. And from talking with the OBS, it seems clear that the AP is #2. This was not his first affair, and he is not at all remorseful.

Crazy as this sounds, he blamed OBS for his coming over to our house in the morning on his way to work to have sex with my WW. He told her she didn't love him enough to keep track of his whereabouts. That is beyond crazymaking - it is so F'ed up it defies rational comment.

There are two types of "cheaters". One is a good person who makes a bad decision and gets "stuck" in it.

The other is a bad person who is not at all trapped, rather continually decides to stay in the muck and mire.

I believe this as well.

He is willing to put in the hard work to fix this.

This is how you can tell them apart.

I'm not sure about this one - if you have a narcissist/sociopath on your hands he or she might put in the hard work for fear of losing money, image, security (or whatever they are afraid of losing). I was raised by one and they can be pretty charming and convincing when they need something.

What tfkeel said.

And yes I do think he's a good person.

Chinadoll:

I think he still has a lot of good qualities, but I think he is not as good of a person as he would want others to believe he is.

My wayward is very selfish, self absorbed and self centered.

Prior to his affair, I suspected this, but ignored the signs.

Several of the MCs we have sought counsel from have actually pointed this side of him out to him.

He was very spoiled by his parents

Still, he puts on a good front because he likes to be seen as a good person.

He once helped an old lady to cross the street and she told him he was an angel and he raved about his good deed for days, telling anyone within ear shot about it.

I on the other hand ALWAYS help elderly or blind people to cross the street, and never mentioned it to friends or family because I feel it is something everyone should do. I did not consider it something to boast about.

My wayward is also the type to buy a gift for someone that is somewhat self serving.

For example, he has talked his parents into buying expensive items that he wants, knowing that they really don't need them and will get bored of them and eventually give them to him.

If you point this out, he will deny it.

I always noticed this about him, but let it go, because I thought he was trustworthy and loyal. His friends thought the same because that is the persona he projects to them.

Some of his men friends were just as shocked to hear of his affair as I was.

I have struggled with this question since dday. But yes, I do think he is a good person who made terrible, selfish choices. We have a 20 year history together. I've always known that he has a dark, selfish side to his personality. But I have a selfish side too. That doesn't define either of us because we are both also very giving and kind to others. It does scare me that as much as I thought I knew him inside and out, there was obviously a side I didn't know.

Yes. He is a good man who made very bad choices that hurt me deeply.

Yes, a good person with really bad coping skills.

Absolutely. Actually by most metrics she's a better person than me. I have developed some very manipulative behaviors (FOO) and they still get in my way sometimes.

Yeh, she cheated but it started out by her playing KISA to her APs. As a good person, she really was being a friend to a friend in need, but as an flawed person didn't have any boundries.

Right after dday I really questioned this. The man my husband had become really scared me!! Over the next few months I discovered some of the awful things he had done. He fundamentally was a good person to everyone probably except for ME- the person he should be protecting most. Ugh! He has made a ton of changes over the past few months and I know that I am number one priority with him now. That he would protect me above all else. He now sees all of his bad boundaries and how being a nice guy really isn't always a good thing. I can now say that my WS is a good person. But he made some very bad decisions and that I will not forget.

At first I believed he was a good guy who got caught up in making horrible, ridiculous choices. After months and months, years really, of TT, I had to face he was not a nice guy. He was a selfish, immature person who thought of himself first while professing to be remorseful and loving me. He did not love me "enough" to quit protecting himself, the OW, and his A.

Now? I still do not know. TT kills your ability to know anything for sure. No matter what he says now, I know he continued his lying past the A. Everything about an A is about lying during the A, I accepted that. My extra level of pain comes because he continued lying outside of the A, outside of the fog, outside of the sneaking around, outside of the need to protect their liaisons. He lied after the A because he loves himself, not me.

Is he a good person? I do not know anymore. I hate that.

Yes. Absolutely.

Yeah, I really do. I believed it on dday and it's why I tried to reconcile. I thought this was an aberration. I'm glad he hasn't proven me wrong. (knock wood)

Yes. Noble even.