SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I've been posting back and forth in this forum and the general... I don't think we are in R, lots of D talk lately and separating but I'm curious about the perspective people in R have on this request.

My WS doesn't have many friends. He, like me, has a best friend but that is mostly it. My best friend came into town last week and I stayed with her over the weekend, got to spend a lot of time with her talking and whatnot. His best friend also lives out of state, 2 hours from my best friend, and he is dealing with a family death and is not available to my WS to talk much over the phone. My WS had turned to a young girl at his job for venting, something when he admitted I said absolutely cannot happen anymore. So now he has no one to talk to.

As I said we've been having a lot of talk about D lately because my WS hasn't shown the most remorse and has A LOT of boundary issues, he needs a lot of therapy to help him. There is no trust right now whatsoever. This whole question of his may be a moot point if we D soon anyway.

A little background also, most of our vacations have centered around seeing this friend of his, we have stayed at his house many times and everyone gets along great. Every trip has also included a lot of drinking and bar hopping, like every trip is nothing but that and maybe a tourist attraction one day. He never goes without me on these trips.

To preface, when he asked me, he said I could say no and was trying to be receptive and calm and not being reactive. I am the one who got more upset when I could tell he was hardening after I said no. I hate that look he gets and I know he was kind of resenting me but I know he was trying to just communicate to me and h e is trying to figure out boundaries. Him calmly asking me is a big improvement.

Today we talked and he asked me how I would feel if he took a trip out of town to see his friend for a few days without me. Says he is feeling so guilty and its so hard to be around me due to all the pain I am feeling that he caused and how I have been reacting lately, that he has no one to talk to and really misses and needs to go see his friend. He needs to get away for a bit.

I said I am not comfortable with that at all. We go together and I can go spend part of the time with my best friend and leave him with his friend but him going alone and him going out doing heavy drinking without me is not ok right now.

I feel like I really need him to show me he loves me, to not do anymore rejection. We have been spending almost all our time apart lately and with him still hung up on OW the rejection is killing me. He is still infatuated with the OW to the point he can't have normal feelings for me. If he really needs to just get away from me instead of trying to fix it it seems like D is inevitable. No way I could take a weekend sitting at home knowing he is off in another state getting drunk with his friend. I trust his friend 100% but when both drinking and my husbands unstable state I will have anxiety through the roof. I don't think he will have any kind of PA but he has drinking issues and on top of our current trust problems it just seems like it would ruin us completely. I don't feel that because he hurt me by having an EA with one of my friends and can't handle the guilt and being around me that its fair for him to cause me that kind of anxiety to make himself feel better.

But then again maybe he needs to see his friend and its controlling of me to say no. I just don't see that if its imperative for him to go see his friend soon why we can't plan a joint trip where we travel together and then split up for part of the trip and where no one is out getting drunk without the other.

Perspective here?

[This message edited by gottabeabiggirl at 5:12 PM, July 30th (Wednesday)]

So now he has no one to talk to.

Gently, doesn't he have YOU to talk with?

You JUST found out a lot of unpleasant things about your WS. He shouldn't be "asking" to go anywhere on his own for a very long while, ESPECIALLY when you know there will likely be bar-hopping and tons of alcohol involved.

He still doesn't get it.

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 5:25 PM, July 30th (Wednesday)]

nope. and I say that as a wayward who will never go on an alone trip.

Says he is feeling so guilty and its so hard to be around me due to all the pain I am feeling that he caused and how I have been reacting lately, that he has no one to talk to and really misses and needs to go see his friend. He needs to get away for a bit.

still all about him.

Yes he does have me to talk to. However lately I have been blowing up at him as more TT comes out and I keep finding out about more boundary issues. When he treats it like he is the victim (he has even said "when you are being mean and attack me I do become the victim" I get pissed.

I tried for 2.5 months to not do that, was nice to him, did everything I could to make him feel better, took his feelings into account over my own even when he cheated, not me. But I have since lost patience. I have 0 tolerance for his bullcrap right now and every time he pulls something new I don't react well.

I really really need to work on that, it doesn't teach him how to communicate and make him feel he can be honest with me. But he also needs to not act like his cheating is so hard on him my feelings come second. As he puts it, I have no middle ground. I am either nice to him or I have lost my temper and am quite frankly a bitch.

I am trying to work on that and have him talk to me more, hence why he actually asked me today about going out of town, something in the past he would have probably known the answer to and stewed on and held resentment instead of communicating his needs to me. So he is trying and so am I but I feel his request is not reasonable right now.

rachelc,

Yes it does seem he is still making this about him, which is why I said absolutely not. His guilt does not come before me right now, that is the consequences of him having an EA. I am also trying to take into account he has feelings and this is hard for him too but I think he is taking that too far.

I don't think its reasonable right now.

If he feels the need for a trip, why can't he plan something for the two of you so that you can try to reconnect?

THAT would be reasonable, IMHO.

Having a "boys night out" type of trip? Not so much...

Thats what I have been telling him for months... I need to get away, lets do a couples trip. I literally have said that to him nearly every week, lets go away together, for months pretty much and he has yet to plan anything. It really hurts me he would rather just take off to escape my hurt than to plan a trip with me to help rebuild. He is afraid we will fight the whole time and thats not what will make him feel better.

I did suggest that over the solo trip today and he was receptive, said ok fine lets plan that. He didnt seem happy about it though so I suggested a joint trip in order to compromise. I am hoping during part of that trip we can take two days to ourselves away from friends as well.

I am trying to compromise and take his feelings into account instead of just what I need, which would be a couples trip, and wish he would feel the same.

[This message edited by gottabeabiggirl at 5:33 PM, July 30th (Wednesday)]

It isn't unreasonable to ask (my WW asked), but I think it mght be silly to say yes. There will come a time when I will trust WW enough to allow that, but not now.

Gottabe

As the person who is betrayed, the conditions you need to consider - let alone begin the journey of reconciliation are yours to establish, not the person who has betrayed you and your marriage.

Your reaction and boundaries are in NO way unreasonable.

It is in very early stages and his inability to put your immediate support and security needs first do not speak well as a demonstration of his 'remorse'.

He has at least acknowledged that he is overwhelmed by 'guilt' - but guilt is not remorse and is pretty self indulgent to be honest. It is about HIM feeling bad.

One thing in your earlier post that stuck out to me - was concern that your reactions to his poor behavior and more discovery 'don't teach him to communicate'. Honey - his communication is not your responsibility - you aren't here to teach him.

He is an adult and needs to be a man and not behave like an adolescent.

I understand you see that he makes a real effort to improve in that regard. But - you are still in discovery phase, you are still learning about the extent, depth of his betrayal and all the behaviours and thought processes he has indulged in that have enabled his choices.

Your reactions to these things are not a license to him to put further demands and requirements on you.

You are being reasonable, self-protective and healthy. good on you.

Meg.

I think you are justified in your concern at this stage. A trip "alone" is likely not a great idea. This is especially bad if it is with bars and alcohol. I would definitely say NO and my WW would never ask this. Friends have phones too for talking.

[This message edited by Hopefuldad468 at 6:59 AM, August 16th (Saturday)]

To preface, when he asked me, he said I could say no and was trying to be receptive and calm and not being reactive.

He said you could say no because he knows it is a BIG ask. He knows your relationship is fragile now and that a boys trip (and all that entails) is not a good idea.

He said you could say no, so say no. Show him where the boundries are and he may begin to respect you again.

I am sorry to sound harsh, but your partner took a dump on your relationship and is complaining about the smell. To young women at work.

Hold your head up, and stop trying to make compromises for him.

If he is still infatuated with the OW, what are you fighting for? You deserve to be the center of someone's infatuation. You deserve to be the woman that he can't stop thinking of. Not the woman he can't be around because your pain is so fresh.

And I do not see a night of drinking with you and his friend ending well. Sure in the past, pre affair, you guys could have a great time. But now, he will resent you for crashing his boys night. He will think he can do what ever he wants. He will 'innocently' flirt with the bartender. And you will lose your mind. Words will be said. Glass will be broken. Tears will be shed.

You H doesn't sound safe at this point -- sorry. Have the friend come to you - pay for his ticket.

But your WS needs a trip away to escape the guilt and pain he caused? Uh uh. He needs to man up.

I believe it's completely unreasonable to allow a unremorseful spouse to do go away without you.

He does NOT get it.

You mention that you attempted to put him and his needs first, that didn't work so well did it? No M was ever saved, and truly healed by the BS doing all the work.

If he needs to talk to someone, he needs to talk to you or his therapist. Anyone else is not qualified to help him heal his brokenness, and fix his shit.

He is the one that caused this shit storm. He needs to stop playing victim.

There's no trust and boundary issues? I guess it depends. If you're going to divorce then I'd say it's kind of reasonable to wander off your own ways.

If he thinks this a part of reconciliation after cheating then there's a lot of Wrong going on there. Part of establishing trust and boundaries is, at least early on, not doing things to call that into question - like, wandering off alone to get drunk with a party friend.

It's not controlling to state that you aren't comfortable with him doing that. It's pretty fucking ridiculous of him to even bring it up at the stage you are at.

eta:

The fact that he'd rather run away than go on a trip with you means he is in the exact same headspace as he was in the affair. It reeks of escapism and an unwillingness to do fuckall to even look at himself and his issues.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 12:59 PM, July 31st (Thursday)]

He is still infatuated with the OW to the point he can't have normal feelings for me.

on top of our current trust problems it just seems like it would ruin us completely.

Very gently - there is no us to ruin. He is spending his days fantasizing about another woman. Until that changes, you really shouldn't be contemplating a 'couples trip' or anything else with him.

I really don't know what you need to accept this. Your husband, in his head, wants desperately to be with someone else. As this is the case, why is he whining to you about anything? Why can't he be a man and let you go? If OW wanted him, he would be gone. Is that the husband you want?

Until he grows up and decides you are the ONLY woman you want, you are wasting your efforts. Worse, with each day you spend discussing this with him the more 'used to it' you become. It isn't normal, and it's damned sure not acceptable.

Why do you want a vacation with a man obsessed with one of your bridesmaids?

You're giving him attention despite the fact that he's not all in regarding the marriage. Until he faces real consequences, he will continue to want you around so he isn't alone, all the while wanting another woman.

I really wish you'd stop contemplating all of this. Until his head is firmly on you and the M, you shouldn't give him the time of day. It's really sad that you're spending any energy on him while his thinking is so very harmful.

Please think about this - you are worrying about your response to a man that would leave you tonight if your friend wanted him. You should really spend your energy on a man that wants only you.

{{{Gottabe}}}

Your H needs to grow up now. He has caused immeasurable harm and pain and now he needs to face it like a man, not run away like a little boy. His pain is irrelevant, he did this. IMHO, you could both benefit from IC to be able to make a decision on the D. Please do some reading in the Healing Library and share articles with WH. Some of the articles are very powerful and can put into words things that you are feeling but cant articulate. Purchase some books to read together. I found "Not Just Friends" and "After the Affair" helpful. Your H does not have time for a vaca right now, he has some very important work to do. Whether you R or D, he needs to fix himself or else he will again find himself in this same situation (and in pain). Good luck, you are stronger than you know! ( but its a shame its takes something like this to find that out.)

I believe I posted this on another of your threads a day or so ago:

If you do not walk away from this person right now, you will spend the rest of your life with him (however long that may be) in a constant state of anxiety, fear, doubt and self-loathing until he cheats on you again. You will never again have a moment's peace. If you walk away, you will get the chance to be happy again. If you stay with him, you may also get the chance to be happy but (1) it won't be with him and (2) it may be a hell of a long time down the road and the situation may be far more complicated.

Choose happiness and choose yourself. Walk away.

This guy (who, if memory serves, is also an alcoholic) wants to go on a boozing trip to see his buddy without you. He wants to leave you right where you are and go do whatever he wants by himself, for himself and without giving one single, solitary fuck about the damage he's caused.

And then come back to you until it's time for him to go away and do whatever he feels like doing again.

That right there is the rest of your life with this guy. If that's what you want, go for it. If that's not what you want....well, time to be a big girl.