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My situation is a fairly convoluted one, but here's the short version: WBF had his A with my younger brother's long-term GF. Thanks to their open relationship, my brother was only hurt because his GF lied to him & pursued an "off-limits" person(my WBF). Other than that, there was no betrayal on their end, and as far as he's concerned, their relationship is fine(despite the fact that she is rather transparently looking to leave him, originally with my WBF but she's now looking at other avenues).

Now, the A between WBF and my brother's GF(Who I will refer to now simply as OW, for ease of reading/writing) was both a PA and an EA. She had wanted WBF since day one, and never made any secret of it. When the A finally happened, "they were both feeling like they weren't getting enough of the kind of attention they wanted/needed." She pursued him(coming around whenever she could, using my brother's car to do so), but I believe that my WBF was the one to initiate the first kiss(ouch ouch fucking ouch--I'm actually shaking now just from typing those words). What happened from there was more of an EA on her part than on his, by all accounts... She encouraged him to leave me, saying she'd leave her BF if he did so, she told him she loved him(he reciprocated--ouch again), she talked about running away, getting married, etc etc etc.

OW came from a bad childhood, and has never really been "wanted" anywhere for very long. She's not an easy person to deal with for a variety of reasons, and eventually people just kind of get sick of trying. When discussing her recently, I summed it up with the words, "[OW] is the kind of person who's just got a hole inside of them. She's never gonna be able to buy enough, screw enough, eat enough, do enough, to fill it up. But that's not my problem anymore." I tried to be nice to her before, but I'm sorry, I just can't anymore.

I keep being told by my mother(who knows everything about the A that I know, and probably more since OW confides in her much more than I do) that I'm being too unsympathetic to her, and that she was hurt by this just as badly as I was because WBF "led her on." That the A is just as much the fault of my brother and myself, because we didn't give our WSOs what they needed. I've owned up to the fact that I was responsible for 50% of the trouble in our relationship, but that's as far as it makes sense to me to go. I didn't "make" anybody have sex. I didn't make anybody "fall in love."

I can't bring myself to sympathize with her, and I'm not sure if I should or not. Is this likely to screw with my healing process, I guess is what I'm really asking here-- Because it might be monstrous of me, but I'm more concerned with mine than with hers. Thoughts from either side of the coin would be more than welcome. Thanks in advance...

I keep being told by my mother(who knows everything about the A that I know, and probably more since OW confides in her much more than I do) that I'm being too unsympathetic to her, and that she was hurt by this just as badly as I was because WBF "led her on." That the A is just as much the fault of my brother and myself, because we didn't give our WSOs what they needed. I've owned up to the fact that I was responsible for 50% of the trouble in our relationship, but that's as far as it makes sense to me to go. I didn't "make" anybody have sex. I didn't make anybody "fall in love."

Wow - your mother is so, so wrong!! If OW was 'led on' by a married man, then any pain she feels is her own damned problem. Also, if your WH was unhappy, then he should have said something, not screwed his (basically) SIL.

Has your mother always been a cold, uncaring person? Why is she blaming her own children for what her two in-laws did (which, btw, is disgusting!!) Her own kids are hurt, lied to, etc, and she blames THEM?

There are people that have very little relationship with their parents because their parents are judgmental, cruel and bring misery. I think, and I'm not being sarcastic, that you should be one of those people. If my mother EVER said that my husband's A was my fault, or that I should feel badly for OW, it would be a while before I spoke with her again.

I'm sorry your mother is this way. I'm sorry anyone is this way, but your mother? Wow. Just wow.

Wow.

First of all, your mom (no offense) is dead friggin wrong. As you said, the marital problems may be 50/50, but the A was 100% your WSs doing. Did you seek solace in the arms of another man because your marriage was having problems? No, of course not, because you honored your vows. Shame on your mom. She should be in your court!

OW came from a bad childhood, and has never really been "wanted" anywhere for very long. She's not an easy person to deal with for a variety of reasons, and eventually people just kind of get sick of trying. When discussing her recently, I summed it up with the words, "[OW] is the kind of person who's just got a hole inside of them. She's never gonna be able to buy enough, screw enough, eat enough, do enough, to fill it up. But that's not my problem anymore." I tried to be nice to her before, but I'm sorry, I just can't anymore.

My god, this sounds like my FWH's xOW (who was also my "friend") - and since she was my friend, I too tried to be sympathetic to her issues and went above and beyond to help. She took, took, and took some more...it was all about her, all the time. I realized even before NC went into place because of their EA that I was not happy with the friendship anymore because of just that. But it turns out she was never my friend, she was using me to keep up the EA with FWH.

IMHO, I think your sole focus on your healing should be on your WBF, not the OW. He is the one with whom you are trying to R, yes? You made no vows or promises to OW. You owe her nothing. And he made promises to you...and he broke them...he needs to be accountable.

Is WBF doing the right things to help you heal or his he still blaming you? Also sounds like you're blaming yourself a little for his A and you need to stop that (see 1st paragraph).

Hugs...

First let me say I'm so sorry you are facing this double betrayal... And welcome.

Do not feel sorry for this sick broken individual. She doesn't deserve it. From what I get she knows you and your family and is probably feeding off of this.

I have a huge problem with where you mother's loyalties lie... If my son's GF cheated on him with my daughter's BF that girl and boy would never step foot in my house again.

What is your WBF saying during all of this?

Is the OW still coming around you?

Your mom is your mom not hers she needs to back off and let you process this and decide how you want to heal from this betrayal...

(((((SS))))))

As a mother to young adults, I'm completely baffled by your mother. OW should be out if her life. She should protect her children's feelings at all costs. MY "mother" allowed an attempted ow (on her part) to move into her house with my brother!! Our relationship has been pretty non existent since and she wasn't even a true ow! Sometimes I think family forgets what family is supposed to mean. I also have brothers who make my life a bit challenging. We do not have the same morals and I've distanced myself both physically and emotionàlly from them. I'm sorry you're dealing with this stuff. IMHO I would work on you and hope they all grow up. I decided sometimes distance is a good thing.

Early on after DDay, I started a thread with the exact same title.

She told him she was constantly treated badly. She told him she was raped.

I've been through a lot of terrible things in my life too. I didn't use that as an excuse to cheat on my spouse.

This was intentional on both their parts. I no longer have any sympathy for the OW.

So if you were raped, would that be 50% your fault too? Would you be expected to have sympathy for the rapist's painful past and low self esteem?

No. Your WBF and the OW made a choice to meet their needs in a selfish hurtful way. No way are you responsible for their choices because they had options they chose not to pursue. If they were unhappy there is communication, counseling and finally breaking up. They chose to cheat, that's 100% on them.

Wait who is your mother's daughter, you or the OW? Does your mother hate you or simething? WTF?????That's messed up. I'm so sorry now you have to deal with your mother's f'd up thinking. That's another large betrayal.

Sympathy for the OW? Maybe if she was lied to and didn't know he was married. And even then, maybe. That's certainly not your situation.

Can you find some idiot asshole to hook the whore up to so she leaves your brother? I'd have to tell my mother off if she pulled shit like that. Seriously messed up.

I'm so sorry. You don't owe that whore anything. She's lucky you still let her breathe.

Pull back from your mom and your brother. Their priorities are way off and you will further hurt by them.

(((Sparrowsoul)))

Absolutely waste no energy on feeling sympathy for the ow.

She knew full well what she was doing, she is certainly not hurting as you are. Many of us have difficult childhoods, not all of choose to lie, cheat and rob. Its just wrong and how we grew up does not negate that.

FH, kick her ass out of your life. I would limit contact with her as much as possible.

It sounds like it may be a good idea to put some space or distance between yourself and your mother. The way she is handling the betrayal to her children must be very painful to you. I'm so sorry.

Sending you hugs Sparrow,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Sympathy for the OW...you're kiddin' me right?

For all of her issues, she desperately needs counseling...

And unless something has changed, counseling does not mean screwing your boyfriend.....

I can't even begin to imagine a mother saying that to her daughter...

Mine would have been the first one to toss her out of the house the moment she found out....

Your mother is wrong wrong wrong! Jeez!! What is wrong with her? In any affair the bs is not to blame but when it's your own children you should be behind them all the way!! Sorry your mother is so uncaring xx

Tell her she can find sympathy in the dictionary...somewhere between shit and syphilis.

Holy cats... Thank you everybody for the show of support! I had really been beginning to question if there was something wrong with me, if I was just being vindictive or if I was just some sort of monster or what.

For what it's worth, my mother and I usually have more of a friendship than what most might consider a "normal" mother/daughter relationship. She and I are pretty close, but she is one of those types that adopts every stray person, and then plays mother to them all... OW included, in this case.

My mom had said that she would stay out of all of this mess unless asked for help, and I hadn't asked-- First of all, she has a lot of her own(very, very major) problems lately. Secondly, I'm not really the type to ask. I'm usually always the rock, the one other people lean on/come to for advice or help. I pride myself on being independent and self-sufficient, and in this case it seems to have worked to my detriment. OW was crying to my mother day in and day out about how wronged she was, in keeping with her usual "poor me" MO, and all the while I was silent and distant. Oops... Lesson learned, I guess.

To answer Lalagirl's question, WBF has been nothing but supportive as far as my healing goes... He balked a little bit when I demanded total transparency & access to his accounts, but only for a night or so. Other than that, he's been as helpful as I think anybody could ask for, and certainly more than willing to NC with the OW. He'd actually broken things off months before D-Day, so agreeing to NC was sort of a relief for him.

To answer Imstillwaiting, oh hell to the no, that sack of trash doesn't still come around me. I told her, the night of D-Day, that she was no longer welcome in my life. I don't care if my brother still wants her polluting his or not, but I never want to see her again. The job that I got for her got yanked back out from under her pretty quickly(not even my doing, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't feel good to see it happen), and after that happened she and I had no further reason to associate with one another, thank goodness. She's called/texted me since then, but it hasn't led to anything and I hope she's finished trying now.

HFSSC - Not even gonna lie, I laughed. And will probably use that quote if ever she tries to contact me again, haha!!

HFSSC - Not even gonna lie, I laughed. And will probably use that quote if ever she tries to contact me again, haha!!

I'm glad. I was hoping you'd laugh. Sometimes in the middle of this crapstorm, we just have to laugh. That quote is something my Daddy used to always say and it's one of my favorites.

WBF has been nothing but supportive as far as my healing goes... He balked a little bit when I demanded total transparency & access to his accounts, but only for a night or so. Other than that, he's been as helpful as I think anybody could ask for, and certainly more than willing to NC with the OW. He'd actually broken things off months before D-Day, so agreeing to NC was sort of a relief for him.

Good. How about IC? IMO, he needs to get to the root of why he strayed to begin with.

You're defending your mom by saying you didn't ask for help. Gently...that should not have mattered. She knew the sitch, yes (or did I misunderstand?). It seems that the roles are a bit reversed between you and your mom - almost like you mother her, which is not healthy for you. Perhaps some IC would benefit you and your mom?

Hugs...

I think you should say something to your mother. If she brings it up again, you might try something along the lines of:

I would appreciate it if you would remember that you're my mother, and not hers, and that feeling badly for her because she allowed herself to be used by my BF is not only wrong, but hurtful to me. She slept with my BF - she and he are the wrong ones here, not me and not (brother). Try a little perspective here - and remember which ones are actually your children.

I was raised by a woman cut out of the same cloth as your mother, in fact, mine probably said something similar.

That stupid statement of my mom's comes from the broken place inside herself that tells her she can control the world. "If I behave like X, Y will happen". It is garbage a whole lot of the time. That thinking serves to give the control freak in her some peace, rather than chaos. And she focuses much more on manipulating people to do what she wants, rather than being honest, vulnerable and respectful by simply asking people.

Lalagirl - I absolutely concur that he needs to get to the root of his problem... We've had a few long talks about that, actually. He has more than his fair share of FOO issues that I'm sure factor in. He, my mother, and I could all benefit from IC(and MC in his/my case, I think) for sure, but my mother's unwilling and none of us have that kind of money. It stinks.

Painfulpast - That's really well-worded, thank you. She's going to be gone for the next two weeks and I doubt I'll hear a peep from her until she's back, but I think I'll definitely be using some variant on those words the next time this garbage comes up in conversation.

JustWow - I think you have hit the nail on its head. My mom is a survivor of infidelity in a couple of different senses(Her dad was a real tomcat, and I'm about 99.9% certain there have been issues in my parents' marriage as well), so her perception of things is a little bit skewed by that. I think she's convinced that if she repeats something enough or alters perspectives enough, she can change the nature of what something really is.

Maybe I should just stick up for myself with her, and damn the consequences. She's been supportive, but not wholly, and I guess I just didn't want to be demanding by pointing that out-- But I think maybe I need to. I'm not a doormat, dammit.

OW has obviously had a difficult life and is messed up. She deserves sympathy ansd support. But not, NOT from you. Or, in my view, from your mother, whose opinion is difficult to comprehend.

My mother often takes my husband's part when we are at odds. (On one such occasion, she told my husband that I was admittedly difficult to live with - a comment which, needless to say, has served him well in many a fight since then. ) But I have never told her about my husband's EA, because I know that she would never, ever, forgive him.

On reflection, I wonder whether the difference is that, from what you say, your mother has always lived with infidelity. So her views on it are skewed and to her it is less of a big deal than it is to most people. It's not so much that she is failing to take your side, as that she can't quite understand why you won't forgive and forget, as she has had to learn to do. For her, OW's completely unacceptable betrayal of both you and your brother is not that awful. (It is, of course.)

Another comparison occurs to me. My mother went unwillingly through a painful divorce and she sees a marriage break-up as the end of the world. When my sister's marriage almost failed, my mother was heartbroken and tried desperately - and soemtimes almsot irrationally - to persuade her to stay in the marriage. Perhaps your mother is afraid that you will leave your husband and end up on your own, which she views as a fate worse than death. And despite her sometimes horrible behavior, she does love you. So her urging of you to forgive is really a desperate and clumsy attempt to persuade you to accept the infidelity and stay married. Because to her, even an unhappy marriage is better than being alone. In the distant past, that may have been true. But thankfully, nowadays, your mother is, of course, completely wrong.

[This message edited by Cally60 at 1:23 PM, August 1st (Friday)]

Cally60 - I think that for the most part, you might be right about the way my mother views infidelity and the minefield of issues that surrounds it. In her mind, well... I should by all accounts be able to handle this better. I keep hearing some variation on the following;

"It's bad, sure, but you're an adult, can't you forgive and forget? She's your brother's girlfriend, and even though I don't think that what they have is good or healthy for either of them, she's who he's chosen, just like WBF is who you've chosen."

I know she would never pressure me to stay in the relationship just for the sake of preserving it at my own expense, though. I can at least say that much! I've never been the type who "had" to be in a relationship, or who couldn't stand to be single. On the contrary, I quite enjoyed my time as a single woman! I had a happy life and for the most part, took excellent care of it/myself.

That's something I keep focusing on in the wake of all this A nonsense... I know that I can be a whole and content person on my own. I like the single life, and I can take care of myself. If our R doesn't work out(though don't get me wrong, I am of course hoping that it will), I'm gonna be just fine without WBF in the long run. Self-reliance is a blessing.