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Based off the Clue thread, I'm wondering what you did when you found clues. Especially all those things you saw before The Big Clues. All those little things we were gaslighted on and backed down because they made us feel paranoid and jealous and told us it was nothing.

Could or should we have done something different?

Before the real DDAY in first marriage I found a special card from OW, she felt the need to give him her own card separate from the company card everyone else signed. I found it in his coat. It said things about him 'always being there' for her and she gushed about how great he was.

I confronted him, he told me I was jealous, and I went along knowing something was off, but really having nothing to go on. In hindsight now, that card was a glaring red flag. But what do you do at the time??

When you see a phone call or something, but have little else, but a feeling. What do you do?

We all know so much in hindsight, we call ourselves "naïve" and "were so stupid" ... but what is the appropriate action on those pre-DDAY signals?

Hi, Yes I know what you mean. One of my first clues was her gushing about him the one and only time I met her. Then there was a phone call, with her asking him'can't you talk?'. I did act and asked questions but was told I was being unreasonable and there was nothing going on!!

I think I didn't push it because I was scared in case I was wrong - you know, all the what if questions you ask yourself along the way?

I have come to believe that I am and was too nice a person to actually say what I truly believe or feel and because he was so 'ill with guilt', I didn't think he would cope. I wish now I had handled it differently, I was right all along and they had both lied to me, knowing the pain and anguish I was going through. Now I feel trapped - D day 9 months ago and am still in the same house, not trusting him and he is even still going to places where she will be - and yes I am a fool for putting up with it. My mask is quickly slipping and I am reaching boiling point.!! He acts as if it never happened.

One of my first clues was her gushing about him the one and only time I met her. Then there was a phone call, with her asking him'can't you talk?'.

Yes these are kind of common things. The gushing over him thing is very common! What is the best response when someone does that and you just FEEL it's inappropriate??

my biggest weakness is usually not knowing what to say at the moment!! Later, I get mad at myself for not responding, but at the time, I'm mad but have no idea what to do about it and I don't want to appear like I'm overreacting in front of other people.

Maybe someone with some guts and good at quick responses can chime in! I want to learn....lol

Another situation with current marriage: howorker stood around him right in front of me when he left the job, asking too many questions about where was he gonna work, what about his children, etc. I was mad, but didn't know what to say!!! I felt it was none of her business and it made me suspicious that they had crossed boundaries at least talking. But what could I have said at the time that wouldn't have made me sound like a controlling bitter bitch??? I truly am curious. Of course I told him HE should have been the one to shut her off! But, a part of me wishes I would have had some witchy, cool little response that made her look stupid but not made me look jealous and bitter to everyone else around!

Oh so many things that I knew were fishy but nothing I could hold in my hand. He would say I was insecure and taking it out on him, and I believed him. He told me I was crazy, believed that too. I spent hours of time going over phone bills and documenting time against his check stubs. He was really good and covered his tracks well. I knew it but kept telling myself, he wouldn't do that to me, would he.

I have to be perfectly honest. My husband knew EVERYONE, and the women LOVED him. I guess I was either extremely trusting, naive, blind etc... but I never saw it coming. Yes, I had a few times of be jealous of his behaviour with a female, but I addressed it with him and he played the "innocent" so well I thought he WAS that naive. yeah....

Even after I was contacted I didn't believe it. It wasn't until the last contact and his behaviour that I knew it was true.

So I guess my take is don't beat yourself up for not seeing or knowing what was going on, I mean, we honored our vows why would we suspect them of doing otherwise? I would have never married the man if I hadn't trusted and believed him.. Right? I am happy for BS's that move on and find new love, but for myself, I can't see me trusting or believing another man. That is the life lesson I got out of this tragedy!

Special K, my h is just as you described your h. Every woman's best friend. The sympathetic ear, the shoulder to cry on. I never saw it coming. Never had a reason to look because he never gave me reason to worry. In hindsight, I could have checked phone records or commandeered his phone, but I had no reason to do so.

Problem with this is, I have no faith in my ability to catch it were it to ever happen again.

I struggled with this...I was aware of the clues..I kept asking questions..I had no proof of anything..You dont want it to be true...So maybe you accept their stories too easily...You have to realize they are planning, hiding, lying, as if their life depended on it..Because it does.. Your mind is empty of deceit...ITs full of questions...They are plotting, sneaking, arranging...Its no wonder we feel stupid..Its very one sided. I have told H during that time, that he treats me worse then anybody he knows....

It left me feeling like an idiot, I beat myself up about it..Along with other self esteem symtoms... Now, I have learned...He has issues that have nothing to do with me.... Read Read Read What I know now, compared to what I knew then is what helps with the pain...They are broken and self serving....and lying.

I also went thru the stage of being scared to get too angry or crazy, afraid I could be wrong about A. What if I accused him of all these things, and was completely wrong? What damage does that cause? ANd I knew to lay low and collect evidence...There was never any proof.. These are my stages...ANd it left me feeling out smarted ..Now Iknow I am not.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 8:55 AM, August 22nd (Friday)]

found a message on his phone that was entirely too personal. confronted and he said nothing was going on, just a friendly client.

Took the day off work the next day and gathered everything about this woman, figured out how to read deleted texts on blackberry's. Confronted again the next day and he denied. I said hand me your phone. Saw what I needed to see and right hooked him with it.

Affair over within 24 hours of first clue.

I was a former WW. Knew the signs and that lying was always involved and it's always deeper and more involved than you think.

We all worked together. I walked in and they were talking way too close for comfort. When I walked in my husband jumped and was startled. Right then and there I accused them of an inappropriate relationship. They in turn convinced me I was crazy. The next clue I got was when she started a fight between us. I heard him tell her to lay off me. I was that minute that I knew he was having an affair with her. An hour later I was pouring over the phone records. Two hours later was D-Day.

3 DD's over 17 years. The first two I had to be told. I had no idea either time. The first one I probably should have known. He was on a bowling league and didn't come home till after midnight every time. I knew he was going out for drinks after and didn't think there was anything going on because we had JUST started living together and our relationship was very normal otherwise. OW was calling his ex-wife and she told me. The next time OW told me in a letter to my work. This time, I found pictures of naked breasts on his laptop. I immediately put on a keystroke logger and got the password to his gmail account they were using and got the whole sordid story laid out. Same OW, again.

How do you fight it when the OW is willing to have a long term relationship with a man who won't tell her where he lives, won't tell her his home phone or cell phone number. The only contact is either through work phone or work email both of which are extremely limited by his employer, and who is willing to only have sex at lunch hour or an hour he can break away from work. He was never gone at night or on weekends. Her comment to me is that he loves her, you can tell by how he looks at her, and is only afraid of me. Now, mind you, they never discussed me at all. Even she verified they had no conversations about me or his current living situation. So he wasn't telling her anything about me. She has no other long term relationship with any other man that I can see. She just waits around to be available to my WSO? She said, "he chose me twice" (she doesn't even know about the first time I guess...??? Honey, he only chose you for sex, if he wanted you for anything else, he wouldn't be with me right now.

But the answer to the point of your question....keystroke logger. Invaluable tool.

I have to admit I swept them under the rug for months. I couldn't check the phone bill, it's a work phone. I grew up in a home with a serial cheater for a father. Our house was always in chaos because of his behavior and my mother's inability to leave. When I finally woke up, I kept my mouth shut until I found evidence that could not be denied. Another lesson learned growing up.

One of my first clues was her gushing about him the one and only time I met her. Then there was a phone call, with her asking him'can't you talk?'.

I used to ignore that clue, but never again.

Why would some women feel the need to gush about how wonderful your husband is to the wife.

An intelligent person knows that no one really knows what goes on in a marriage behind closed doors.

So why would some strange women be telling you how wonderful your spouse is.

I remember after Dday, My husband belonged to a health club alone. After dday, I insisted on joining because the OW worked out there.

He signed me up, And, when I go in the next day to get my membership card validated, one of the women in charge of sign up started gushing about how wonderful and nice my husband is.

I just looked at her coldly and said "oh is he?"

Where upon the other women in the room started laughing and said something like "I told you so".

The gushing lady said......uhm, I mean he is very polite.

And, I said, well that's true. He is polite.

But really unless someone asks you what you think of their spouse, why gush about someone else's spouse.

IMO, that's inappropriate and in the future that gushing will always raise my suspicions.

"You don't want it to be true so you except their stories to easily".. This was comment from someone in thread and isn't it so true..

I found out four weeks into it. We were having sex and WH commented on how firm my butt is. Uhhmmm, dude same firmness as always. I knew right then. When we got home from vacation I started counting Viagra. He actually tried to tell me you had to take it everyday! What an idiot.

Sorry fingers aren't working on my phone well. The anger was my clue. Looking back he may have only done this once, but went to extremes to move forward and cover it up.

[This message edited by deena04 at 5:20 PM, August 22nd (Friday)]

"trying22" is EXACTLY RIGHT. We don't want to believe the clues so we kind of let them silde until the clues or red flags become so numerous and right in our faces that we HAVE to do something then.

I can say that I actually knew early on but I didn't act on it because I was SO SURE h would or could never ever be so hurtful. I think the biggest clue is when the ws brings up the name of their op into every converstaion during the day. H couldn't say the name Aracely enough during the day. It was actually more like Whore-a-cellly.

In hindsight I now wish I had gone to ow's house (2 down from me) and waited in a room with a camera. It would have been quite a sight seeing the two of them trying to put their clothes on while trying to catch me running out the door with the evidence.

[This message edited by TICKED OFF at 5:27 PM, August 22nd (Friday)]

Could or should we have done something different?

I would not beat yourself up over this. I am one who confronted without any physical proof whatsoever. I came across a text wh sent to the wrong person that would seem entirely innocuous to almost anyone. Except me! My gut knew it was off. I spent 3 days in investigative mode (though not an effective one I hadn't found SI yet) and I confronted. He lied. I KNEW he was lying because his story didn't make sense.

So, I am someone who jumped ALL over it immediately, and you know what that got me? It got me a wh who was now on high alert, a wh who gas lighted me obviously much easier to do when the majority of my proof was gut and behavior changes that I noticed.

I actually wish I would have kept my mouth shut and waited and installed key loggers and VARs. He was very good at not leaving a trail but they all mess up eventually. I missed my window of opportunity. Had I either kept quiet or dismissed my gut feeling as me being paranoid, I think I would have been further along in my detachment process by now

What I found strange was that the morning after Valentine's Day, around 11am or so, I came back home from running errands to find this woman from his social club sitting in my family room. H was not expecting her ( I believed him because he would have showered and shaved had he knew we'd have company)and he told me that she wanted to surprise him for his birthday. Granted, it was a card and a $5 or $10 gift card. I found strange that anybody, esp. a woman would, be so bold as to come to a married man's house unannounced and uninvited to give him a card. Especially when she could have mailed it or given it to him the next day at a meeting.

I found this gesture very bold and daring and intended to cause trouble between the spouses. I did not hide my displeasure and right there and then I should have accessed his emails, but I did not. I told H my feelings and he did not say much.

But right after this incident, I started watching and eventually they were both caught because of this very behavior: boldness.

A friend who knows both H and the OW told me much later that the OW would have eventually moved in my house. I do believe it; anyone who acted the way she did right from the onset of an EA, there is no telling what she would have done as time went by.