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I found out the tactics of the hard 180 a day after I had a discussion with my wife, where I may have revealed a bit too much of my heart. D-day was a week ago, so I'm still nowhere near getting my bearings.

Just looking for some advice out there. The 180 says to be detached, but not cruel. We're living in the same house now for the foreseeable future, and I can't even bear to look at her in the face. But we do need to talk about the kids' schedules in a civil manner. Ditto the inevitable separation.

I know these are trifling details, but...

-do I say good-bye when I leave the house?

-do I say hi to her when I enter the house?

-do I acknowledge her when we're in the same room?

The other day she warmed up a pie for me to take to a potluck. I said "thank you," and wondered if I should've even said that. (Yes, this is the second-guessing I'm doing to myself now. This is crazy.)

Army15, other people may have different opinions on this. For me, I chose to ignore as much as possible. Again, not in a rude way, just as a matter of choice. So in your examples, if someone says hello to you, it is rude to ignore that, so I would respond "hello". That's it. No "how are you?" or anything else.

The "thank you" for the pie was appropriate. For me, I would have explained that I don't want you doing things like this in the future or next time I will take care of it. I don't want your help. Again, not in a rude way, it's just the new reality. I believe that it helps to make those things clear.

Waywards have a tendency to "pretend" everything is ok. It helped me to make things clear that they are NOT ok. That's for you to decide on the details.

You basically detach,and treat her like a roommate. An annoying roommate.

No, you don't say goodbye,or hello.

If she walks into a room,you walk out.

Move her stuff out of the bedroom,and set it up as your domain. When home, spend most of your time in there, watching TV,reading,etc

Don't discuss future plans. Don't discuss the affair,or your feelings.

Don't ask questions.

Keep your conversations strictly about kids and finances. If she tries to get you to talk about anything else,walk away.

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:34 PM, October 11th (Wednesday)]

Please read below ....

This is a post by SerJr......I hope it helps

The Simplified 180

It's been a few years since I've read through the 180 bullet list, despite understanding the basic fundamental point to detach from a hurtful situation and focus on moving forward independently. Looking through the thirty-odd points in the list... I can see how it gets confusing and possibly even contradictory if taken out of context. The following is what I believe a distilled version of the 180 looks like with just a few simple guiding principles to keep in mind.

Principle #1 Don’t reward their behaviour.

A common game that the betrayed spouse will play is the “pick me” game where they try to win back the wayward spouse. When terrible things happen, it’s natural to want to feel a sense of control and if we can find fault with ourselves, then one could reasonably assume that you could fix things by just trying harder. The problem with this codependent thinking is that you didn’t cause your partner to cheat and you can’t control the choices that they make. Cheating is fuelled by a sense of entitlement and when you try to compete you just reinforce that entitlement. If you refuse to live with infidelity in your marriage, then don’t reward your partner for their cheating or try to manipulate them into staying with you. You deserve better.

Principle #2 Don’t shield them from consequences.

Don’t feel that you have to passively endure the mistreatment of your wayward partner’s infidelity. Doing nothing grants passive approval and gives up your own power to take charge and make your own choices. If a situation isn’t changing, then action is required to make it change. You have a right and a responsibility to protect what is important to you. Be clear with these boundaries and let your wayward spouse know if you would prefer to work on your relationship, but that without a doubt you will not accept staying in a relationship if their behaviour continues. Don’t sugar-coat it for them, call it as it is. If their behaviour is continuing, take the necessary steps to protect yourself such as consulting an attorney to educate yourself on options and separating resources and finances. It is not up to you to bear the burden for your wayward partner’s selfish choices. Take action and take charge.

Principle #3 Let go of the emotional strings.

Oftentimes, the wayward spouse will go on the offensive – arguing, blame-shifting, minimising or justifying their actions, projecting untruths, lying, making threats, and so forth. Engaging in these arguments serves to meet their negative emotional needs and further entrench their delusion. By changing how you behave or interact you can remove yourself from a manipulative situation and detach to preserve your emotional wellbeing. By practising control over your feelings, thoughts, and actions you can maintain a calm and steady centre of being and speak truthfully and directly with quiet assertiveness. If your wayward partner tries to pull your emotional strings, you simply let them go in order to avoid being dragged back down into the mire. You regain control of your life by refusing to be played for a puppet – you are the one who is in control of yourself.

Principle #4 Take care of yourself and get involved in your life.

Whatever happens and whatever path you walk, you need to be at your best. Pay attention to your mental, emotional, and physical health. Don’t deny yourself the right to feel your emotions, but at the same time create that picture of who you ultimately want to be and keep that end-goal in mind. Focus on your personal self improvement. Take some time to think about what your emotional needs are, how to simplify the clutter in your life, and how to surround yourself with healthy and enriching relationships and get involved in activities that you enjoy.

Principle #5 Stay true to yourself.

Above all, you need to keep faith in yourself and be authentic with yourself. You deserve your self-respect and you have to be willing to stand up for it. You put the focus on your choices and empowerment to nurture yourself to grow and evolve and live out your values to create a healthier and more balanced life for you and those you care about. You live your life understanding that you can navigate through change and adversity to create that brighter future for yourself.

The Spectrum of the 180

It's important to realise too, that the 180 isn't an all or nothing endeavour, but that it exists within a spectrum. It's important to understand the position that you are in, and to adapt the particulars to best meet the situation.

The Soft 180 creates some space to help you find clarity and perspective. It is a reminder to focus on yourself, your peace of mind, your choices, and letting go of things that are inhibiting your emotional health. You focus on reinforcing your independence over codependence through healthy, but not dismissive, detachment while still allowing your needs to be met by your partner. It’s about realising that it is okay to think about and identify what you need in and want from life, and to express those things to your partner. It is okay to allow others to be responsible for themselves (actually it's even in their best interest) and to let go of situations and outcomes that you can't control. In fact, it’s healthy because you let go of the unnecessary stress and allow yourself to move forward unencumbered by it. You make it clear that there are limits to what conduct you will accept in your relationship, but you don't have to feel guilty about things that aren't your issue. When someone violates your boundaries, you still have a responsibility to yourself to challenge it or else you are the one to compromise your own values. The soft 180 is still very productive if you’re both all in and working to reconcile, because you gain some objective distance to help reset and focus on behaviour in the relationship and decide what you are willing and not willing to accept. It’s about understanding the past, living in the present, and building for the future.

The Hard 180 is a cold dose of reality for everyone involved, but most especially for you, when you are in a situation in which you are continuing to be actively or passively hurt. In effect, you are saying "I am hurt by this behaviour and if/as it continues I will evaluate all of my options to take care of myself". You must be willing to uphold your boundaries and step away from the situation to move forward on your own when that is the only thing that you are able to change and control. Not only that, but you put up protective walls to cut off emotional ties to toxic relationships. You recognise that the healthiest choice, for everyone involved, is to leave others to be responsible for their actions and for the consequences of the choices they are making. It’s about standing up for yourself to make a decision. It doesn’t mean that you can’t change your mind in the future if the situation changes, but it does mean you refuse to be a part of the current situation and you refuse to live with it. You want to focus on the critical aspects of the situation to deal with reality, while letting go of the emotional ballast that weighs you down. You have to stay smart and think rationally without being controlled by anger or thoughts of revenge – it’s a focus on eliminating problems, not on creating them. The priority is protecting your emotional, mental, and physical health by protecting what is important to you and setting yourself free so that you can move forward unimpeded.

[This message edited by SerJR at 8:25 PM, January 18th (Wednesday)]

Me: BH - Happily remarried.

No having her do your laundry, make you dinner, etc. I had to tell my WW to stop doing all of those things. I got to the point where I just told her to GTFO, I despised even seeing her face.

No telling her where you are going, or what your plans are. It's none of her business at this point.

WOAH, let's have a squad meeting here...

Have you made up your mind to leave her or are you undecided?

I agree with many aspects of 180 BUT how it is applied can vary.

She is still a human and still your wife. You treat her like SH@# and it will validate all the lies in her own head of who you are... a dirtbag.

If you read my bio, you'll see I went through what others described as one of the worst they've seen. Just because my wife hurts me, doesn't give me the right to do the same back. Because she's not doing her part gives me to not do mine? That's not love, that's a barter. That's what you do with a whore, I'll give you this if you do that for me.

I continued to love my wife and worked on being a better husband because it was my duty. We are now in full reconciliation and it is very real. I know she's not cheating and not talking with other men. I know because of her countenance and the look in her eyes towards me. Yes I'm still working on forgiveness and the trust with it but my gut and mind are aligned knowing she's done. I'm glad I didn't try to ignore her or treat her less than human or that of my wife. You can do that and still stick to your guns about not cheating.

You can't control her cheating but you can control how you react to it and I decided I was going to continue to love my wife even when she didn't love me back. After all isn't that what for better for worse meant?

I know that this may be a controversial post but it worked for my wife and I AND our four children.

How to treat your wife is not a quick easy answer. You'd treat her differently if she's actively cheating, vs in the fog, vs came clean, vs in reconciliation etc... She needs to know and hear that you love her frequently... no not as the pick me but as the man who made a wedding vow.

Please just be careful how you respond to her. Keep loving her till either reconciliation or the dotted line is signed.

H3LL0: just had to say thank you for that. Certainly lots of different opinions (as with any forum) but I agree that it is important to adjust behaviors depending on where in the process your WS is.

If you have children the 180 is different. I was always kind and nice to my H in front of my kids.

But I did not fix him dinner unless it was for the whole family. No doing his laundry. No errands for him. I did the 180 in a way no to be mean or vindictive but to close me off from any further drama. Until I figured out what we were doing.

Because if we R (and we did) I did not want to add fuel to the fire. I did not want to be mean and disrespectful or cruel. But I needed to stand my ground and be firm.

And not disrupt the family.

You will figure out what is best for you.

Army15,

To me, the 180 has always been synonymous with the word "indifference". The 180 is not a punishment technique. It's not supposed to be used to punish your WW. Rather, it is a technique used to disengage from infidelity.

You want her to feel as though you are moving on with your life. Make your own plans, do your own thing. If you feel like going out, go. Don't tell her or ask permission. You are your own man. She doesn't need to know where you are. Clearly you didn't know where she was when you were being cheated on. She didn't ask your permission.

Get a hobby. Mine has always been the gym, and playing and coaching. It's what I've always loved, and something I can immerse myself in. I don't have to think about anything else while I'm in it. You may have something you really like doing, so go do it!

Go work out, go for walks to clear your head, go for a drive. Lift weights if your not already. It's great stress relief. The marriage as you know it is dead. It died when she cheated. She will have to win you back.

Usually the 180 is best when divorce papers are served. It shows her your serious and you will move on, regardless of what happens. Then you are using the 180 to train yourself to be happy with yourself, with or without HER.

I've found that being nice has a better effect than being cold. It shows her you are happy, positive and confident. Now, you have to be cordial, not overly nice. But not available for her. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but sometimes if your just mean, the CS will think you're just done and it may have the opposite reaction you're looking for.

When I did my 180, I learned to love all the stuff I gave up for her, all over again. I did all of these cool things before her, why shouldn't I continue? She told me later that it actually scared her and she thought "OMG he's moving on without me" and it made her snap out of her BS immediately. She was begging me to work things out. "Love bombing" the hell out of me.

Again, be cordial, not nice. Don't do ANYTHING for her at all. If she makes you food, say thanks and eat. If she does your laundry, say thanks and then leave. Show her that it has ZERO effect on you whatsoever. If you hit her with the D papers while you're doing this, you will have a very good chance of snapping her out of the fog she's probably in.

To me, the 180 has always been synonymous with the word "indifference".

Absolutely the best synonym is indifference. My WW was immediately remorseful and apologetic, came clean with most of the truth within days.

If I thought she has any hesitation, I would have been long gone anyway.

It wasn't a complete 180 on my part, and as H3LLO said, it depends on what you are going for here.

I needed that indifference for quite a while just to cope with all the issues I was working through.

So it does matter if she is wanting to save the marriage, or wants out and is not willing to put in the work.

I found the really hard part, assuming you two try to put the wheels back on at some point and actually fix things, is turning off that indifference and trying to reconnect. It is a wall that is built, that then must be torn down. There's no easy way to do that.

Treat her like the annoying co-worker that has the long boring stories to tell. Say hi, bye, etc. Be polite. But be prepared to cut that shit off a the pass.

She says hi, you say hi. She asks how your day was say 'great, thanks' and leave the room. Not a drama queen stomp out but like you have something else to do and are getting to it. Just like with that co-worker.

I struggle with this too. With four kids we have to interact a lot to juggle schedules. I should probably start relying less on him. I say hi and bye but I'm on DDay2, so not sure I'm the best advice