SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello everybody...

So today is day 40 and we have more bad days than good obviously but the hope for me is we still have GOOD days. I see glimpses of what could be if I do my part to help him heal. I've been in IC and I absolutely love it. I am so excited about the person I'm striving to become. I've had to confront some horrible childhood/adolescent trauma. It's hard,emotional,painful but realizing I didn't have it under control like I thought I did is an liberating and humbling realization. I allowed what I thought I had "gotten over" to fester,bleed and blow up into my marriage. The issues I have I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. This being said i am doing ALL OF IT. Everything that is required, we talk constantly and there is no question off limits, I express my love everyday through various ways, I apologize profusely and not just "I'm sorry" but "I am so sorry for..." , of course he has constant access to everything of mine and if he asks it is immediately handed over. He's going to schedule a polygraph in November and I am anxious but more than willing to take it and finally prove to him he knows everything. To see his relief is what I hope to see after that. NC was never an issue. OM dropped me like a hot potato. The questions bothering him now is if he hadn't caught me "it would still be going on" and even though I tell him,yall tell him, the books tell him, he still blames himself and it's these sorta things is what I have some trouble with. Also he his dead set if OM tried to contact me "I would go running back" I tell him the truth about the affair. I say yes it would still be going on but that I am so happy it's finally over that I can see it was just a path of "self destruction" (I was drinking every single night of the entire affair) I see how broken I am to need validation from somebody like OM and as for the "running back" I can say it til I'm blue that I hate OM, actually I don't even mean that I'm just indifferent and feel disgust for what I did, all of it, it is a source of intense shame for me. So HELL NO, of course I wouldn't go back, that's why I'm in IC to fix what made me go to him over and over again. This is affair is the lowest part of my life, even after all the abuse I had taken because it didn't just hurt me, it traumatized the one person I love most in this world. I still don't know if he will choose reconciliation (hopefully after the poly) but whatever he chooses I will still work my ass off even if he chooses to D me. It's not over til we're dead IMO. Let's talk about empathy. Yes I've been showing it, he sees it but last night was off the scales and it scared me.

The dream: I had bought us a completely furnished apartment as a place just for us to get away from the kids. We had walked in and straight to the bed to make love. Afterwards he was sad, I asked what was wrong and he said he got his producer pregnant and he was going to have to pay child support. My heart sped up and I felt like I was having a heart attack, my stomach dropped to the floor and I felt like my insides where obliterated. That feeling of total devastation was all consuming in my dream. But I also felt like I deserved it so I picked myself up and told him it would be ok, we would refinance the car, work tons of OT, and sell the apartment, that we would be ok. After that he left for work and as I looked around the headboard of the bed cracked in half, the dresser was crushed under some invisible force, the television had a hole punched in it and trash just started piling up everywhere and I was panicking because the apartment had no trash cans. My friends and people I hadn't thought of in years came over and would just hang out and I wanted to scream "get out!" But I was scared of being rude. What I remember most before I woke up was that my husband just had a baby girl with another woman...(we only have boys and all I wanted was 1 girl)

So upon waking I was disoriented, had tears on my face and haven't told my husband yet since we are at work. I realize at least I get to wake up from this...he has to live this every single second of everyday. That thought alone,it's a miracle. And I know that I will do whatever it takes to see him happy again and I just wanted to share and hopefully get more ideas on anything else I can be doing to help him, and making sure I'm doing all I can. Any advice is wanted and helpful! Thanks! (P.S I accidentally put a stop sign on here and don't know how to change it)

This was edited for additional thoughts!

[This message edited by JulieMarie at 7:35 PM, October 23rd (Monday)]

I removed the Stop Sign for you JulieMarie

Lol!! Thank you! I'll get the hang of it eventually!

JulieMarie,

Since I don't really see an ask... How are things going? What is your BH saying about all of this? I read your profile so...

As a BH myself, I will be honest. The main challenge you are facing is that he is looking at your newfound motivation and wondering what is different about this time. There is also a lot of anger, sadness and frustration there too. Why didn't he see through your bullshit. Why did he waste his time giving you another chance. The truth (to him, if not objectively so) is that you WOULD still be in the affair had you not been caught. You WOULD likely go back to him if he was available (you proved that once already).

So what's different now? What is it about JulieMarie after affair 2 that is different from JulieMarie after affair 1?

What happened last night?

Hello xhz,

To answer your 1st question things are hard and it's going to be like at for a very long time. I know he feels trapped with us working together and a child with special needs. I hope he's staying a little because he loves me but I'm not assuming anything. One day he wants to talk, the next not, his emotions are everywhere and he can't trust them. I know he thinks our marriage is over and I think he's waiting for the 3 month mark to make a "level-headed" decision. My husband also says,I did it once,twice, so you'll do it again. The difference between the 1st time and this time was the 1st time I made him think it was his fault, our marriage was in a bad place. He took me back after a couple of days and we never had any kind of counseling either individual or together. I did the "if you forgave me then quit bringing it up" line. To put it mildly we did the exact opposite of what SI says to do. The complete freakin opposite. It's incredible how down pact they have this. My BS has been a member of this place since my 1st affair however I did not know. I found this site specifically because he told me about it. Once I started researching I realized what we did was "rugsweep" I also learned that I cheated not because of anything he did but because something was deficient in myself. People on here were like "You need to dig deep" So I did and I did not like what I found. Fast forward a few weeks and I've been in IC, I've read "Not Just Friends" and "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" TWICE. I have 2 other books on the way. This time I am changing myself. Working on all my demons that allowed me to do this to him. I've also told him EVERYTHING, even things he would not have ever known. He's scheduled a poly and I am ready for it. See we never did any of this the 1st time, none of it. I know I can change but he is incredibly hurt especially because this affair lasted 1yr and 4months which is a year more than the 1st one (with the same guy) and so I made thousands of decisions and each one was disrespecting to him and our marriage and he is having a hard time with that. I can only pray I'm going above and beyond for him everyday regardless of what he chooses. To answer your question about last night was nothing out of the ordinary happened I was exhausted from late night discussions about my affair from the previous night and decided to go to bed about 7 o'clock. So work,dishes,dinner,shower and bedtime.

Edited for additional thoughts

[This message edited by JulieMarie at 4:21 PM, October 19th (Thursday)]

It seems like you have good information. I hope that you put it to good use.

It seems like lately that we have a lot of W's come in very well well coached. THIS TIME they know exactly what went wrong, how to fix it, it'll never happen again FOR SURE! We sure do have it down pat here, but the bad side of that is a W looking to manipulate better gets a pretty good script to do so. Don't be one of them. Your actions will likely dictate how you move forward at this time.

A lot of people, myself included, would likely advise your BH to leave you immediately. Two affairs is two too many, and one more than should be forgiven. I would argue that even if you say you didn't know that it was something in you that led to the affair, you should have.

One thing that I don't see much of, that you will need to reconcile, is that there isn't really an admission that you knowingly engaged in something that you knew was wrong. There is a lot of effort on your part to separate yourself now from your past behavior.

The truth is that you engaged in an affair that you knew was wrong when you engaged in it, because it suited you, regardless of any damage to your BH or fallout. You got caught, refined your affair skills, and went on to continue the affair that you knew was wrong while you were having it, because you wanted to, regardless of any consequences.

Do you have any idea what it was in you that you allowed yourself to do that?

It would be interesting to get your husband's take on this situation. Does he post here?

Yes I did see a lot of people advising him to leave. It broke my heart. Just like I deserve. I have absolute no intention of coming in here and just learning how manipulate. I've been manipulated my whole young life and would never do it to my enemy much less the man who is my world. It also helps that I hate myself, I'm disgusting, without moral or boundaries. Who wants to be like that and know it? Not me and I hope not anybody. I did know the affair was incredibly wrong, I'm sorry I just thought that was assumed. Everything you said is 100 percent correct. I did it (knowing it was wrong), got caught, stopped the affair, my husband did the impossible and made himself into a better man for me, we were incredibly happy for 4 years then I see this OM 4 years later who I engaged again, knowing that this time it would be worse, and would end my marriage and did not care of the consequences at the time. I have said all this to him, I've owned it. The part that I honestly will stick to is I swear I had no idea something was wrong with me. My husband was verbally abusive over the years and that is what he changed because he loves and cherishes me. I have been physically,verbally,sexually abused throughout my life. I have severe abandonment issues. I have grown up with a dad (until 4) who cheated on my stepmom with my mom multiple times,my mom abandoned me multiple times the longest was 7 years then pretended to not know us when she was found by my sister (she is currently out of my life), my grandparents after that until they died at 10, and then found out my grandfather had a whole another family, I lived with my aunt and uncle and was told multiple times it was the $$ they were getting for that they kept us, plus they cheated on each other on and off for 35 years and ARE STILL MARRIED til this day. I was in a relationship from 14-21 with a man who he and I cheated on each other multiple times each time trying to make the revenge affair worse. This is so so sick. On top of all the fidelity issues there's lots of abuse that I won't go into but it has scarred me. I met my husband at 22 and I thought he healed me. He was wholesome. From a great family and i craved that. I've never had therapy, never even crossed my mind. I shut that part of me down, or so I thought...so lots of low self-esteem, practically nonexistent. Always the fat friend,ditsy,acne. Just never good enough. Anyways I'm sorry it's so long, it's just I have ALOT of issues. It'll take awhile to become a new person but I have to, regardless, I'm done with this broken girl who destroys herself and others.

[This message edited by JulieMarie at 5:34 PM, October 19th (Thursday)]

Hi WhiteRabbit,

Yes he does his user ID is Imstunned

JM- sorry you are here... and I’m exponentially more sorry for your BH. To put it bluntly I know both sides of this equation...I was the BH first then a mad hatter before our D. If there is one thing I know is eating him alive is the fact that you are a repeat offender, and whats worse, with the same guy. I don’t know your story all that well, but there is something I hope you should consider... is there any possibility you are going to extra mile now because you want to save your marriage for all the wrong reasons? I mean the question he is asking himself is how this same guy never left you mind, even 4 years apart. If you can’t honestly say (to yourself, not us) that you don’t love this other guy, you need to do your H the favor and set him free. It will be the best thing for him and you, just don’t take him to the cleaners if you D. However, if you know undoubtedly that the OM was nothing more than a marital crutch in all the wrong ways, and your H is gracious and frankly strong enough to try and stick it out...you will need to prove to him every single day for the rest of Time that he is number one to you. Hands down. But also, be aware that sometimes it’s not enough, and it wouldn’t be his fault. In my case my exww tried everything, even bowed to forgive my subsequent affairs after hers, but in the end I knew I had to pull the plug... because more than just my pain and anger, I knew I could never treat her like a loved wife should be treated after that.

Also, don’t repeatedly put yourself down to him, eg im horrible you deserve better, etc etc. these are things he already knows, and really only serve to alleviate your guilt in his eyes. You should however explicitly apologize about specifics, show him that you take the time to really think about what you’re sorry for, because that demonstrates empathy, he may see that you’re finally “getting it” regarding how he feels

Wishing you luck.

I remember your H and I really think he needs to come back here. Dealing with a year and a half betrayal on top of it being the second time around with the same guy, with no support system that can truly empathize...that's horrible.

Of course he feels like you'd choose your OM over him if you had the chance. You choosing the OM over was the norm for so long. And you had no choice in the breakup. I know you say otherwise, but I don't think you can say 100% that if OM called you today and said, "I left my wife, I love you. Come be with me forever", that you wouldn't go to him.

You have a lot of work to do.

I feel sorry for him.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 3:30 AM, October 20th (Friday)]

As a former WS, I advise all BS to leave their partners. Not on here, but to friends/BS IRL. I've changed. I think I'm at a point where I am less likely to cheat than before if put in the exact same situation. But us WS will always be at a higher rate of betraying than the general population.

Well I did ask. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Is there anybody optimistic on this site at all? I have always been a very optimistic and highly loving person (it's probably why my H still loves me). With that being said thank y'all, if this does anything it hardens my resolve on succeeding in becoming a new person, a safe person for me and for him. I try not to speak to much on OM just because I feel like I've given him to much time in my mind as it is. I am speaking now to get more honest opinions. So here goes... OM doesn't even compare to my H. My husband is a good man, gentlemanly, sexy, fun, the most attentive lover (sorry if tmi), just perfection and he is incredibly intelligent to boot (genius level,really) and that is sexy as hell to me. He is truly in a league of his own and nobody will ever compare to him. I am truly,deeply regretful that I picked this trogolodyte over my husband multiple times. The shame knows no bounds, it is really unfathomable. Once it was over....I was literally like, what the f&$! did I just do?

Of course he feels like you'd choose your OM over him if you had the chance. You choosing the OM over was the norm for so long. And you had no choice in the breakup. I know you say otherwise, but I don't think you can say 100% that if OM called you today and said, "I left my wife, I love you. Come be with me forever", that you wouldn't go to him.

I'm sorry I know it's not meant to be funny but it is so absurd to me. Not only because of the backstory with OM (before I was married) but because of all the things I'm realizing about myself. OM and I were never a romantic couple. I knew from the start at the age of 17 it was just sex (and he was married at the time to the same person today) It's always been just that. But you know 17 year old girls are always confusing love and sex. Then I met my husband and fell madly in love with him at 22. That crush was over. The 1st and 2nd time OM pursued me, he was always the persuer. It really doesn't matter just thought I'd throw that out there. Each affair was nothing more than a addict getting a fix. I mean that in every sense of the word. A long time ago OM called me after I started dating my husband and asked if I ever thought about him...The short answer was no. He proceeded to tell me he thought about me all the time because I was his drug. I didn't really know what that meant then but I sure do now and as sweet as that sounded to that young lady years ago it sounds pathetic to me now. In addition to all that OM is a serial cheater (yes I see the irony) and has lower self esteem than I do and that's saying something. So no I am very confident that I will never pick that person over anybody including myself ever again.

However, if you know undoubtedly that the OM was nothing more than a marital crutch in all the wrong ways, and your H is gracious and frankly strong enough to try and stick it out...you will need to prove to him every single day for the rest of Time that he is number one to you.

Oh nicenomore I know beyond a doubt he is what I want. He is all I've ever wanted and I really hate it took all this to make me see it. I will wake up with both feet hitting the ground and running to prove it to him that he is my number one. I will love him with my whole being day in and day out, go above and beyond. (This man is worth it) Also I hope I can come back here in 5-10 years with a positive story from a repeat offender. I would really like to prove to myself and to others in my position people really do change if they put their heart and soul into it. Also I don't put down myself to him,at least, because it sounds fake and like I'm just trying to get sympathy,I can hear that. Plus it's counterproductive to my therapy. Something therapy is making me think about is my need for validation. I came to the realization I was trying to get OM to fall in love with me as the ultimate validation of myself, as the ultimate self-esteem and confidence booster. I used to do this all the time as a teen and it made sense...make them love me then leave them. It's what was done to me as a child by everybody (mom,dad,grandparents,aunt) and as horrendous as it sounds,writing this out, it was the ultimate high doing that to people. I did that, then went back to my boyfriend of 8 years as that's who I really loved at the time. OM was the only person to not fall for it...and that was the ultimate prize, the ultimate payback, if I could get him to love me then I would be beautiful,irresistible in every way and his hold over me would be over. Trust me I see how sick this is. I know and that's why I'm getting help. The fact that I can see that and admit that in itself is very therapeutic. I recognize it and right now I can't forgive myself for it but I'm working on it. And if you're wondering,yes, his hold over me is gone, because I can see what drove me to it, and I understand now that the ultimate prize has always been my husbands unconditional love for a broken girl, truly unreserved, whole-hearted, unconditional love and support for me. That my friends,is worth more than all the riches and validation from all the men in world. He loved me and stayed with me when nobody in my life ever has...there is a God and I thank him every single day for this man that he made for me.

Edited to highlight quotes! Still learning!

[This message edited by JulieMarie at 11:34 AM, October 20th (Friday)]

I'm an exceedingly optimistic person. I try to be honest about the challenges that you are facing. I am a 42 year BH posting here for only one reason, so that you don't make the same mistakes that my STBXWW did.

I will try to explain my point.

The first time you were caught, you begged him for a second chance, you were sure that you weren't going to do this again.

Now you got caught again, you are begging for another chance, and you are sure that you aren't going to do it again.

Do you see the similarities? Knowing that you handled it wrong before doesn't mean ANYTHING when it comes to not doing it again.

The thing that tripped you up after the first time you got caught were the things that you didn't know. I am trying to warn you there are still a lot of things that you don't know.

You aren't affair-proof, not by a long shot. You need to work on rebuilding yourself from the ground up. There will be another time that the OM reaches out again. What will you do? Will you agree to meet him "just for coffee" because you are emboldened to do so by your new boundaries? Will you chat with him on the phone because you know that there is no change of you sleeping with him again? Approach him at the bar "for closure"?

You need to look at me, and people like me as the best insurance that you will ever buy. It's the insurance against finding yourself in this position again. My dad gave me one sentence of advice on relationships, ever. If she's interested in you at 10, don't wait around to see if she's interested in you at 1. I will translate that for you. Don't put yourself into a position to make this kind of mistake.

So, when I say it seems like you are trying to divorce your personality from your past behavior, I might not be right, but it is something you should probably look into. Your challenge is to rebuild yourself, and integrate these abusive behaviors into your self image. When you look into the mirror, you should see every bit of who you are. Then, you should put everything you've got into making that person someone who is worthy of love (your own, and others').

I'm optimistic, sure, but practical as well.

Thank you so much xhz, I am currently am in the process of rebuilding myself and I have such a long way to go. It is my number one goal now, along with healing my husband. I absolutely loved your advice and I will work on myself non-stop, I want to be this "affair-proof" you talk about. I want that so much. If OM ever contacts me again I want to hang up with nothing said, no emotions present, like he's somebody I never knew (and of course immediately tell my H) I'm surprised at the integrating part but it does make a lot of sense, I have been told time again I need to rebuild, reinvent and I just assumed it meant getting rid of the bad parts. The reason I've been journaling is for the simple reason that I never want to forget the soul-crushing pain I put my husband through. He asks don't you remember the 1st time, my honest answer was "yes,but I don't remember it being this hard". This needs to stay with me and all of ya'lls stories, so I will never do this again.

Let me clear up what I said a bit.

Who you are today is simply who you are. Integrating the "bad" things is a very incomplete understanding of what I am saying. Who you are isn't bad. It doesn't work that way.

I am a person that LOVES Coke (the soda). I love the bubbles, I love the way it tastes, I love the Mexican kind the best. It's cinnamon-y and great.

I am also a person that has kidney disease and high blood pressure. I shouldn't drink Coke. Like ever. The high-fructose corn syrup is bad for me, the sodium is bad for me, the caffeine is bad for me, the phosphorous is bad for me.

Now, I am what I am. I am not going to ever _not_ love Coke. The flavor won't change. It's delicious! But, I can choose to not have a Coke despite who I am. More importantly, I integrate my behaviors into who I am. I am a person that despite it being bad for me will occasionally have a Coke because I enjoy it.

If you do get to a place where the OM calls you and you have no emotion at all, that's great. Realistically, it;s going to be a long time. Your challenge right now is to hang up the phone despite what you feel. Then you get into IC and try to figure out what issues you have that undermined your ability to stop this in the first place.

When I say actions matter, this is what I mean. You can't change your spots, but you can change your behavior.

And, as always this advice. If there is ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING that you haven't told your BH, tell him now. When I say this to most people, they usually respond by telling me that the truth is all out. In my experience, it rarely is. Anything that is still in the dark is still a lie, and dishonesty will kill your chances for R dead.

Good luck to you.

I get ya now. I won't tell you it's all out then I'll just let y'all know when I pass my poly!

Have you or H advised OBS?

Yes OBS does know and they have compared timelines and exchanged info to verify facts. She actually called me and was extremely under control given the circumstances.

I haven't read all of your posts yet - they are long bandits early where I am but just wants to chime in on "isn't anybody optimistic" --- or however it was you wrote that.

Dial in and read a little if you're unsure at all or can't see it --- this is one of the most hopeful group of people you will ever meet virtual or otherwise.

You (and I can say it cause I did it too) committed very likely one of the most horrible violent offenses against the person you made a vow to that is still semi-legal eg you could murder, steal, sexually abuse - but you'd be prosecuted legally for that.

If you have kids you abused and violated their trust in the world that everything is good and right.

I don't know all of your detail but it sounds like you had a physical affair and went back to the same guy four years later - guess what - you have to wait at least four years from this d-day making sure you have a pristine record before you even get to be considered safe again.

But you know what? We all think you can do it.....

Thats about as friggen optimistic and boarder line crazy as it gets.

Please read a little more in JFO to understand what you created by cheating on your spouse - this isn't some oh I put the wrong spices in the soup (where'd that come from?)

People kill over this shit - they commit suicide - lives go in to a downward spiral w booze and drugs. This is the worst of the worst where you aren't convinced of a crime.

And sometimes for WWs who get it - we wish we could be cause then we would have at least paid our time.

I'm triggering here a bit cause you seem like you do not get the magnitude of what you've done. And I'm a wayward - four years - bad shit myself.

Keep reading and posting. It's good you're here - try to get your H back on here so he can see how much shit he needs to give you to prove yourself. And he shud give you shit because you seem like you have s good heart and can stand up to it.

But girl - you have work to do. Roll up your sleeves.

Editing to add I won't be editing.