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Hey all-

Is false reconciling only done when the wayward spouse isn’t really into reconciling or can it be both spouses that FR? I guess I’m most curious about the overall definition of FR here in the SI community.

If any BS or WS stay in the M bc of children and not necessarily being ‘in love’ is that FR? If so, is it possible to survive in the marriage truly for the kids but later fall back in love? Wondering for those that have gone through it.

Is FR that point when you(bs or we) still aren’t sure how it’s going to play out? And how long does/did the limbo in the marriage post d day last?

When does it actually become FR? Is any attempts of reconciling false if ultimately the couple ends the M?

I think most BSs consider it a false reconciliation when the A is still ongoing, but the WS has taken it underground. When the WS and AP are still in contact, but the WS hides it, denies it or makes the BS feel crazy for thinking they are. When the WS says to your face they love you and want to make it work..... while still texting the AP how much they love them.

But by that token, I suppose a BS could also tell a WS they love them and want to work on the marriage while actually getting their ducks in a row for a divorce?

I think that if both BS & WS are actually being open about their feelings and trying to make it work though, and it just isn't... I don't know if that's a false reconciliation, so much as a failed one.

Sometimes an affair is just something the BS, as much as they might want to, just can't get past. And maybe they give R a shot, but after some time goes by they realize they can't live like this, and then at that point they start making arrangements to separate or divorce.

Hey - good to see you I was wondering where you had gone.

Look, I am not sure you need a label for it. When we last heard from you there was a lot of struggle about your husbands indifference to the point you had wondered if he was having an affair. A relationship takes two people, he checked out prior to A and stayed that way. His behavior as you had described it was bizarre.

Has he given any further insight since we last heard from you?

I’ve asked some of these my questions myself and come to the conclusion that if you’ve made an honest attempt (stayed NC, examined your whys yada yada yada) there is nothing false about it if at the end of the day you just don’t want to remain married, not because of infidelity but because of incompatibility, and that’s ok. Some people are just plain not happy, healthy matches.

False R is EITHER party lying, sneaking, hiding money/making covert plans while telling their spouse they’re committed to the marriage. It’s being willfully deceptive for your own benefit. If you both know that you’re together for the kids and no one has any illusions of being in love or fixing the marriage, it’s not false, just sad.

Hey. Welcome back! I'm not sure that it is false R you are facing. I would classify false R as willfully lying about intentions to R from either spouse. If you are honest about wanting to R and for what reasons so that all parties can make an informed decision, then it is not false. It may not work out, but it was honest. If either the WS or the BS are hiding their true intentions and lying to each other, there is no R. Staying together for your children in not false R, if you are both aware of the intentions to do so.

Thank you for your insight ibonnie. That makes sense.

Hey hiking... life has been busy. My last comment in a post made me realize I needed to step back a bit so I’ve been around, just reading. I’ve been following your posts as well and am glad you’re still here posting and sharing.

To answer your question, no. We rarely talk about the A still. He has ceased requesting me to be with another woman and told me he now wants us to be only committed to each other. Mind you this was after he insisted I talk to other men as well.

He’s started really taking care of himself though. He’s lost 30 pounds, has started exercising and physically started grooming himself every where. He hasn’t done that since pre-children so I am happy to see him putting forth effort and taking care of himself in a healthy way. He’s also cut back on his drinking considerably. So i think he is really trying to better himself and commit to us. There is still an emotional disconnect and I am not sure I’m fully invested still. I feel as in limbo as I did months ago. Just kind of going through the motions.

I am taking care of myself as best I can. I graduated with my masters after completing my practicum this summer and started working again. My job is demanding and emotionally stressful at times so it’s been nice to come home and find solace in being around him and my kids. I set up automatic deposit into my own savings account and at first this bothered BS but then he came up with a budget for both of us and an account we can both transfer our money to so that it’s 50/50 and then we keep the rest. I told him it was important for me to do this not bc I was planning an escape but bc I never want to be dependent again. That if we stay in the marriage it will be bc we want to be here not bc we have to be or are too scared to move on.

All that said, he says he loves me, wants us to work but I still feel certain that it’s bc he’s comfortable and concerned financially what it would be like to part ways.

Are we in FR? I don’t know. AP is not in the picture and I think I finally see him for exactly what he is. My thoughts aren’t construed with him. I don’t feel love for him. But I am still very wayward in my thinking in other ways. Some days are better than others. I’m much further than ‘one day at a time’ as far as my overall life goes but as for my M, it’s still very much ‘one day at a time’.

Thanks poppy. Good to see you’re still around.

Barregirl! Heyyyyyy! Let’s go get Irish coffees and tattoos this morning! Haha. I am honest with BS in that I am not sure what will happen with our M. That I am trying my best. That I want what is best for our kids. But I am not sure if he is honest with me and I keep my walls up because of that. My counselor tells me it’s imperatuve to listen to my gut and that actions speak louder than words. So bc I’m still not sure, there are things I don’t divulge bc I don’t trust him enough still and i am trying to protect myself. Soooo... basically, things are still murky for me. I’m enjoying the good days and the bad days I dream of being in my own home.

But by that token, I suppose a BS could also tell a WS they love them and want to work on the marriage while actually getting their ducks in a row for a divorce?

IMO, this is fairly accurate (I’m a BS). It may not always be a false R, rather a conditional R, as we stay so long as our WS is being completely honest and doing the work. It probably transitions to a false R in the days leading up to filing or moving though, where we go into incognito mode to avoid our WS discovering our plans.

When I was approaching my breaking point, I started working on a plan B for leaving WH if there was another DDay. I refused to tell him ILY at that point, yet I did tell him that “I love you, but can’t say I’m in love with you now.” I did still love him, as my DS father & husband in name only, but I turned into the “roommate” he always portrayed me to be. No laundry, no cooking for him, no groceries for him, etc. I did talk about a future new house or a family vacay, because I did have the slightest glimmer of hope (<1%) that we may have a real R. I was going and getting things in order on my days off, and slowly removing my personal effects, donating stuff, etc. just in case.

This prepping only occurred after false R #1. Thank goodness I did, because I had things in the works prior to False R #2 (still lying & hiding info).

Is any attempts of reconciling false if ultimately the couple ends the M?

There's a difference between false reconciliation and failed reconciliation. If both people have tried to the best of their abilities to reconcile the marriage, but the damage is too great, then there's nothing false about that. Even though the marriage doesn't survive.

If there are continual lies, affairs going underground, disregard and disdain for the damage caused to the BS, failure to take responsibility for cheating, additional d-days - any or all while you're supposed to be in reconciliation - that would be false reconciliation.

Is FR that point when you(bs or we) still aren’t sure how it’s going to play out? And how long does/did the limbo in the marriage post d day last?

This is a question I still think about. I wouldn't say the first year was R in any sense of the word. More rage and anger on my part and never shy about expressing what I thought about her. And not is a positive way. I finally realized the pain I caused by my remarks, didnt give me any pleasure, but rather caused me pain of realizing I was a cruel bastard.

After that I don't know. I rarely brought it up, and neither did she. We kind of existed. She wanted to get back to where we were, but frankly I couldn't care less. In hindsight, I put zero effort into the marriage. She tried, but I was a brick wall that couldn't be moved. I still had so much rage that bubbled under the surface.

I had no plan about leaving, but I fantasized about it all the time. I stuck around thinking that forgiveness would somehow come to me, but knowing in the back of my mind it never would.

So I do think about your question if this was just a false R, or something that just did work out. I lived in that space another 4 years before finally realizing neither of us were getting what we wanted.

Congratulations on your Masters!!

I’d like to add one other component here: I think early on you are in neither false R or failed R or any kind of Reconciliation. At first you are in recovery. So the BS has one foot out for a while.. that **might** be during recovery and before R can truly begin.

Once the wounds have healed enough and the trust brought far enough along to really begin R, then over that time you will learn if you will have successful R, false R (A continues in ANY form), or failed R.

There is still an emotional disconnect and I am not sure I’m fully invested still. I feel as in limbo as I did months ago. Just kind of going through the motions.

Do you love him or not? Will you ever love him again the way a wife should love her husband?

Those are the core questions you need to be focusing on, because if you cannot see a way of reconnecting to him you are wasting his time.

I agree with BearlyBreathing.

I also think it's wise for the BS to not be all in for the first several months. I think the bs should sit back and watch the actions of their WS for awhile.

And any WS who stays because it's easier, or because they don't want to pay child support,or alimony, is putting their BS through false R. If you're not fully invested, then it's cruel to allow them to think you are. It's more abuse on top if the abuse you've already put them through.

Many BS stay for the kids, initially. But during that time, if the WS does the work, is open, honest,and remorse, the reason for staying often changes.

I hope you've told your husband you're not really invested. That's part of full transparency.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:35 PM, October 8th (Monday)]

So much food for thought. Thank you all for your input.

For those that have asked if I have told him I’m not fully invested, yes. He is aware. He says the same. The we just take it day to day. Meanwhile, some where in the conversation of divorce in the past year, we talked about doing projects around the house to prepare if we do ever want to quickly put her on the market. We’ve done something’s. I mean the list will probably never end bc I bought this house thinking it was my forever home and figured we’d have tears upon years to do the things we envisioned. But either way it’s good bc it’s time to bond and to compliment each other’s work as we do our projects. Or, the house will be prepared for market if we part and help to make things smoother. We both committed to ending it as mature as possible for our kids if /when we parted.

And all the while we try as hard as we’re willing, day pending, to make it try to work. Our kids deserve that and there still isn’t a better or more sensible thing to do right now.

Time will tell. It’s strange tho... D day first year anniversary is next month. I thought the first 6 months post d day were the longest of my life. That was tragically difficult for everyone in our home. The last 6 months tho have flown by and have really been life changing for me in a good way. I’m no longer dependent, I have somethings of my own that defines Foenix, pre children, pre-marriage. I am no longer just ‘mom... fixer of boo boo’s, butt wiper, item finder, house cleaner, launderer, lawn mower... you get the idea. So, whether we are still in limbo, we’ve both been working on ourselves in healthy ways. I am much happier than I have been in years and I think he is too. Mostly because we no longer feel doomed. We’ll be ok together or apart.

If there are continual lies, affairs going underground, disregard and disdain for the damage caused to the BS, failure to take responsibility for cheating, additional d-days - any or all while you're supposed to be in reconciliation - that would be false reconciliation.

Agree ^^^this is False R. False R doesn't happen the other way around that is failed R.

We’ll be ok together or apart.

Normally I think that's a great realization to have, I think it put a lot of balance into our work, for both my husband and I. In your situation, it sounds different.

Don't get me wrong - it sounds like both of you have made some positive changes - he's come out of his depression, lost some weight, cares about how he looks again, you have become more independent financially (and sounds like emotionally).

On the surface this is great. It sounds like a healthy foundation on which to build. It's the other parts of your posts...it sounds like there might not be the precipitating desire to do the re-building together on that foundation? I realize that a lot of people the precipitating desire is the kids and that's enough to bring both to a place that is reasonable for marriage.

I am really not sure what I am trying to say here...other than at some point if you really want to give it a go, you guys are going to have to get vulnerable with each other again and work towards getting a love/romance back under you. It sounds like you both have done some wonderful individual work and there is a wonderful opportunity for you two to get to know each other once again. At some point the fence sitting is not going to be comfortable long-term. Luke warm is not good for anyone.

Do you feel like you are waiting for him to sweep you off your feet? Do you feel like he's waiting for the same thing? Do you feel you are ready for MC? I know for us, that helped us bridge a gap in the emotional connection. It gave us tools to help us each make bids for that. It takes practice after being independent for so long.

Or maybe it could be as simple as making dating a priority again. Getting some shared experiences that involve just you and him. It's going to take some investing. Remembering why you love each other to begin with.

And realize, if it's not what you really want, that's okay too. I am not trying to push you in either direction...but if it's what you want you are going to need to let down some of the self protection and get vulnerable with him. It's the only way the emotional connection is going to return. Otherwise, you are both going to be in a perfectly cordial relationship waiting for it to die.

Just my .02 It doesn't sound like false R to me on the surface. It doesn't sound like you've chosen what path to take either. At a year out I did not know either.

FWIW It is hard for one of you to be trustworthy if other questions their sincerity. Even if the topic is avoided. KWIM ? What do his actions tell you about his intent ? If he is peaking to attorney then, well that is not the best sign. If he is investing in himself that tells you something about what he wants, for himself. The only way to ask him.

You are not going to get anything more than you put in. You are only going to get vulnerability to the point that you are willing to be vulnerable, etc.

I think if you are waiting for your BS to make that move first you will be disappointed. He was wounded by the A. He isn't going to be strong enough to make that move for a long time. He doesn't expect to have to be the one to take the first leap of faith. He trusted blindly and it burned him. If he does become strong enough and he still doubts your motivations and intents then . . .he might think about stopping trying altogether. Patience has it's limits.

Doubts are a normal part of R and any healthy M really. Bailing on the bad days ? THis tells me that you are willing to R only if you only have good days. You wanting to cut and run points to the fear is dictating your thoughts. Just like anger decision made with that in mind are rarely the "best" to obtain what we want out of life.

I have only one question. What are you afraid of that causes you to hold back ro to run away ?

Right now it sounds like you have agreed to "not D," that is not the same as R. You have agreed to continue the partnership as a financial and domestic arrangement. I have not seen many truly successful Rs where both people are not focused on the goal of building a new M.

It is a slow walk. The reasons I stayed in the M after D-day were very practical. It was not done out of love. Most days I did not think our M would survive either. It is a process. One that has vital steps that can't be accelerated or skipped over. It is not why I am M again today. If I or my W ran on "bad days" . . . we wouldn't be where we are today.

It comes back to fear. What are you afraid of? Is the fear of rejection, D or (insert other reason here) causing you more pain than the risk of being vulnerable is ? Living life in fear is not a good way to live.

JMHO. Your husband has recent examples to point to when he has these fears. It causes him to be guarded. The fear that you will repeat this behavior is very real to him. Any reasonable person would think that. Anyone who give him advice will likely highlight that point to him. He needs to rebuild himself without using you as a source of those feelings. I think him doing so creates a different kind of fear for him.

Again I think your fear is holding you back. I also think responsibility lies with the WS to be the one to take those first steps in order to provide enough safety that the BS can respond to in kind. The ownership lies with you to show that you are in this for the long haul.

Based on what you've shared here I don't see this as sustainable. Further I see you refusing to take risks when he already has taken some. What have you done to show that you really want the M ? Words aren't going to work here. What actions have you taken to show that your are trying to have a successful M ? Do you really want the M ? You can say you want it all day long, but do you really ? Nothing wrong with admitting that you don't.

There are probably things you have done, so please don't take offense to those statements. Sometimes to get what you want you have to take risks and be comfortable with them.

Separating finances. You have to admit as an objective observer no one, including your husband, would see this a step towards successful R. Further your actions are saying something different that your words. "I think we should separate things on paper, but I still want this M . . "

Do you see the inconsistency? Anyone that has a reason to doubt your motivations wouldn't see this as a step towards R would they ?

Take steps towards him. His reaction will tell you where his head is at. Further any time you want to "run" do the opposite. Engage. You will not resolve this M, D or limbo by doing that same thing that brought you here will it ?