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We are 4 months out from DD On my part. I got told tonight after only ONE productive conversation about my affair, that he is waiting for me to “fuck up”. That I am going to do, whatever I am going to do. I haven’t done anything wrong.....haven’t done anything out of line, Nc was established from day one and abided by, without contest. At what point do you stand your ground and be able to affirm you’ve done nothing to constitute constant insults and mocking regarding for what you’ve done. Is there a point where you cannot do any more to show that you live transparently, you account for your movements and and actions, but it’s still not enough??? No conversation. No discussion, only judgement and assumptions. This is my life. I cannot get anything but. So at what point do you call it a draw and go tour separate ways!?!? How do you move forward without a mutual want to heal???

WS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:57 PM, January 9th (Wednesday)]

Gravycake,

I haven’t done anything wrong.....haven’t done anything out of line

Except for lying to him, betraying him, putting his health at risk, permanently affecting his ability to love or trust ANYONE ever again, hours and days and weeks and eventually years of emotional pain, anger, grief, sadness.... does any of that sound familiar? There is zero empathy and zero comprehension of the sheer amount of damage you've done to this man. This attitude alone is likely a reason why his responses to you are negative.

Is there a point where you cannot do any more to show that you live transparently, you account for your movements and and actions, but it’s still not enough???

A point where you cannot do any more? You've barely even started! You're transparent, so that's it? That's all you think he needs to feel better about what happened? He can never look at you now without seeing your lips on another man, your naked body pressed against someone else, words of love and giggles and probably talking about him in negative terms, the endless mind-movies. You don't get it. Understand that he trusted you. You are supposed to have his back, supposed to be the one person in this world he can trust. Instead, you pulled the rug right out from under him, and instead of having his back, you stabbed him in it. You kicked him to the curb, and now that you're outed, you treat it like it's HIS fault that there is all this tension and anger. It is 100% YOUR fault. Stop acting like the victim here.

No conversation. No discussion, only judgement and assumptions.

I'm curious, when you were deciding to go have sex with someone else, did you stop and have a meaningful conversation with him about it? When you were lying about where you were and what you were doing, weren't you relying on his assumptions that you were actually telling him the truth and being faithful? Are you saying you think it is unreasonable of him to be worried about your lack of honesty and credibility after you lied to and betrayed him? And with your complete lack of remorse? The only person you seem to feel sorry for is you, and you seem to think you are the victim here.

How do you move forward without a mutual want to heal???

Why does there need to be a mutual need to heal? Was there a mutual need for you to cheat? Nope. Yet you had no problems moving forward with that.

Seriously Gravycake, if you want to save your marriage then you need to understand your part in all of this. No matter what issues were/are being faced in the marriage, the infidelity is 100% on you. There is no justification for cheating, none. You could have left him. You could have asked him for an open marriage. You could asked to go see a marriage counselor. There are many options you had that would have left your dignity intact. None of those options were taken.

Transparency and NC are the BARE MINIMUM to be done, and those measures are only to help assure the BS that the affair itself is over. It does nothing to heal the relationship. This takes effort. It takes resolve. It takes humility. It takes empathy and understanding. It takes great remorse and self-examination and change. It takes vulnerability and authenticity.

If anything I said here upset you, imagine how upset you'd be if the person you loved and trusted cheated on you.

DaddyDom: Gravycake is a MH that never got to work through her husband’s A and is now in a very different place with him as the BS. The standard 2x4 will need to be adjusted accordingly.

Poppy - thank you for that info.

Gravy - sorry if I came off as harsh. I have no experience in how this works in a MH situation, and I'm sorry if you are still recovering from a BS perspective. Hopefully some MH's will chime in here.

At the end of the day, each of us is responsible for ourselves, who we are, and what we do. I'm not proud of the affair I had, and I'm not proud of the massive amounts of damage done to my wife and family. I do not want to be that kind of person and will never again allow myself to be such a thoughtless person. I need to be responsible for my actions regardless of others actions.

You came to the WS forum in the role of WS. To that end, I would suggest that you focus on yourself and what you can do to heal in that regard. Model for your husband how you want to be treated by showing him how you treat yourself (a little wisdom our MC gave us).

oops, didn't see the stop sign

[This message edited by squid at 2:01 PM, January 9th, 2019 (Wednesday)]

@dom, yes there’s clearly a lot of history that you were not familiar with at the time of your first post. I get that our situation confuses many who don’t know the back story. I get told every time I post that I’m I not remorseful, I’m unthinking and unfeeling....., I don’t correct anyone. I let the advise and judgement flow..... but frustratingly it’s inaccurate. To be gentle. We are a multi/dual betrayal situation, I lived in a a state of repeated rug swept infidelity, while remaining faithful for two decades. All I know about my own indiscretion, is that I want to give Jondoe every opportunity I didn’t get to receive full healing. Full disclosure and complete honesty. And I know full well that if we deal with this wrong, as we have in the past, it will be the end of us.

My frustration is in knowing we did everything wrong for 20 years. Communication is a key factor, yet between the two of us, we can’t talk. He will post here, but then not talk to me about his feelings. This seems to me to be the biggest block, and until we can overcome it, how do I proceed? It’s easy to tell someone what they need to do, but a willing and able partner is essential? No?

Gravy, when you come here to talk about your cheating, almost everytime there's something that is not consistent with what you have shared before. You didn't break NC? Not once? Not that time when you called AP while he was away and then you guys met up and took it further? Okay, I see. You mean after that broken NC, it was established from that starting point. Well that was a lot of damage caused there between the two NCs.

I actually saw nothing wrong with DDoms first post. Why do we need a back story anyway? You cheated, that's enough information here in the wayward forum, you posting from a wayward perspective. So, we shouldn't hold a WS accountable? I understand you are a BS too, that sucks and certainly complicates things, I can totally relate. I also didn't get to heal (in the beginning) with the help of my WH. Double fucking sucks, absolutely painful and heartbreaking. I am terribly sorry that it's been your experience as well. You may not agree but from what I've seen in your posts is that you've use it for an excuse to cheat yourself. You've called it a revenge affair, we all have our "reasons" to cheat, but this term conveniently places blame elsewhere, because it just drove you to it right? Completely without choice, 10 years later. You said it yourself you felt entitled to be happy, so I guess cheating was the trick to your happiness. Entitlement is the gateway to wayward thinking and actions. I guess with a back story of you being a BS somehow makes your cheating a little more okay? I don't get it.

I lived in a a state of repeated rug swept infidelity

You can't put this on your H and again from what you've posted it seems you want to. It is your responsibility to heal. And that means not allowing it to be swept under the rug. Of course a remorseless cheater will be more than happy to help you do that sweeping, but YOU allowed it. That's on you chick. It is up to you to survive infidelity, one can heal with or without the help of their spouse. Perhaps you didn't have the resources you needed to get through it or the willpower to leave a remorseless cheater, and I have a ton of sympathy for the situation you find yourself in as a BS. You have much healing to do there and it deserves your attention.

You seem to be in a hurry now, why? Not only in a hurry but now you are all of a sudden ready to clean up under the rug. The heat is on you this time for your cheating and you are deflecting. I'm not being insensitive to your pain, my heart breaks for you two because certain aspects hit so close to home. But why pick this time of all times to put the heat back on him and his cheating? I believe there is a time and place for for all of this and you might as well go there but the time isn't right and you are being insensitive to JD's pain. It probably feels as fresh as it did on dday. My H was just then entering his anger stage. And JD sounds angry, "waiting for a fuck up" maybe that has a little to do with your NC fuck up. Your actions then proved you are capable of fucking up, yeah he's angry about that and so much more. The insults, mockingn I know this isn't the best feeling and it does feel cruel, anger doesn't exactly present itself in the warmest way. Haven't you been angry and threw insults around? And don't you think he has a right to his anger? Anger is part of healing from this. Four months out, my H still didn't feel safe with me, and I feel like I was working hard to be a soft/safe landing for him. Still, the only feelings he felt safe sharing with me were his feelings of anger because at the moment it was probably his only safety net.

I agree communication is key, when the time comes. His safety cannot return just like that, just because you feel you are being safe enough. It doesn't matter unless he feels safe, kwim? You are trying to force something on him that he apparently isn't ready for and then blaming him for it. Transparency and accountability go a long way to restoring safety but it has to be coupled with so much more. There isn't really a clear one path fits all right way. But when something is wrong that is clear, and what you are doing here certainly doesn't help. And that is our goal as a WS, to help. Have you two addressed what does help him? That is a key conversation to have at this juncture. It might just be needing some space from the crazy want of yours to get past this part (recovering and stabilizing). It doesn't work that way unless you want him to rug sweep his pain too. I know you must get that.

Honestly, I'm so surprised that having been in his shoes you don't get it more. It obviously has no bearing on your empathy for his pain.

I've mentioned before (in this post and others) that you deserve the floor to work through your BS pain as well. It's okay to open that wound back up even years after. I just don't think the time is quite right. Why? He's still bleeding out. Maybe you can't understand that he could be so hurt seeing how he's cheated, and that's a reasonable conclusion to make. I often wonder how a BS can turn into a remorseless WS, knowing the fucked up pain.

Betrayal of this kind is painful and tragic, no matter one's past. And I personally believe that if you gave him some time to recover and heal just a little bit, enough to stop the bleeding you might see a change in him when and if you want the floor to work through your hurts.

This seems to me to be the biggest block, and until we can overcome it, how do I proceed?

 with patience and compassion. That is if you are able to wait out his recovery. I get the sense that you don't want to and it's okay. You are allowed to walk away.

You might be a MH but this never changes for anyone.

Is there a point where you cannot do any more to show that you live transparently, you account for your movements and and actions, but it’s still not enough??? No conversation. No discussion, only judgement and assumptions.

Everyone has a different level of tolerance when it comes to being cheated on. Maybe that would have been enough for you had he stuck through with what you are doing. Yet it isn't enough for him because he obviously had serious issues with himself before you cheated on him because he already was a cheater. You chose to cheat on someone that was already seriously broken. Did you really expect a different outcome or for it to be easier because you are doing the things he didn't do?

Let go of the outcome and focus on you. You can't make him do anything. Fix you. Learn how to cope and process pain and discomfort instead of running from it. Focus on you. You can't fix the marriage or him if you are still a wreck. If life moves forward without each other. You still need to move forward and live life for yourself. Learn from it and live the rest of it better. Plenty of posters have given you their opinion about the marriage. This decision is on you. You need to decide when enough is enough and figure out if you can heal and become better with a possible poison being dripped like an IV. I suggest you go and read in the New Beginnings forum.

That put aside, I am glad you are here because it is a cautionary example of what happens when both parties rug sweep and don't face the reality.

If you get a chance, you might want to post a little in your profile to help those of us who don't know the whole history.

that he is waiting for me to “fuck up”. That I am going to do, whatever I am going to do.

I think this is typical for anyone that as been betrayed (regardless if they are a MH or not). They want to trust - they want to believe but there is the nagging fear of the other shoe falling at some point. It is a defensed mechanism. Many in R reach a point where they are able to trust again but that is not an easy process even when both parties are on board and working tremendously hard towards successfully R'ing.

You have the additional handicap of struggling with communications between you.

[This message edited by EvenKeel at 11:34 AM, January 18th (Friday)]