SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello all,

I’ve posted here before about my WW emotional affair (4 years ago) and another inappropriate friendship (2 years ago) here: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=619320&HL=63014

Well on 1/1 the S**t hit the fan again. But this time its 10 times worse. I’m overwhelmed with pain, sadness, anger and hopelessness. I discovered (through text messages) that she had a multi-month physical affair with a friend from AA (she’s been trying to control her drinking there). I had always told her she was in a high-risk situation in AA. She wasn’t following the rules (drinking socially) and she had lots of emotional issues along with drinking. She is beautiful and vulnerable. And in that situation, AA is a breeding ground for affairs. Men approached her constantly, asking to talk about her business. She didn’t want to, was too naïve to, or incapably of warding them all off. One man got her attention. A month of coffee meetings, and a lunch later, they took it to the next level. There was a couple of hotel rendezvous and other less physical meetings over the course of 3 months. All this was happening while I was being a perfect husband. I was unaware of any marital problems. I thought we were beyond the emotional affair from 4 years ago. She was flirtatious with me. We had an active sex life. We planned and went on vacations including a 10-year anniversary trip. I supported her in every way and told her I loved her daily. She was literally living a double life. I’m 9 days after dday and I still feel like this is impossible. The affair stopped on its own in September, but the pain is as if it happened today. I would have bet $1,000,000 she was not capable of this. The immorality. The poor judgement. The lack of respect. The lack of awareness of the potential consequences is simply unreal. It feels like insanity.

Now I’m guessing many reactions will be. She’s a selfish you know what – you don’t need her – move on. Well I agree on many levels but its never that simple – is it? She is now broken, embarrassed, self-hating, depressed. I’m equally broken and devastated. She’s begging me to give her 30 days at a minimum to show her remorse and show she can change. I’ve been through a divorce previously and I know it’s a wrecking ball (finances, friends, kids, work – all get hurt). Staying won’t be a picnic either since I will endure some level of lifelong pain and history shows she’s capable of hurting me again. We have a beautiful 5-year-old boy who I’m not willing to see less than I do today. So that’s factor number 1. Through my first divorce, I kept the house and kept majority custody of my boys (now 22 and 24). But even that was not ideal. They were still influenced by their mother in bad ways and they struggled mightily through their teens. I don’t want that to happen with my 5-year-old son. If working this out means I take the harder road and I take the majority of the pain, I may be willing to do that….if there is a path to happiness at some point.

So, I’m searching for optimism in an ocean of hopelessness. For some reason, I still love my wife. She’s had a troubled past (childhood) with a ton of emotional pain. I feel like she is often not capable of making good decisions. She is self-destructive. She seems completely surprised by consequences of incredibly bad decisions. She acted completely selfishly with no regard for me, our son, our family, our friends, our marriage vows. Literally she threw away everything for a romp with a regular guy she had no intention of being with long term. It feels unforgivable to me now. But I want to try to survive long enough to see if there’s hope. I can always choose to file for divorce later. There is so much at stake. Not just a happy life for my son but our entire life that we’ve built is hanging in the balance. She carelessly destroyed it.

Again, can anyone share a sign of hope that someone who is capable of this much selfish destruction is capable of drastic and speedy permanent change? Is there hope that I will be able to be intimate with this person again? Is there hope that this won’t haunt me every hour for the rest of my life? Is there a path to happiness one way or another? It doesn’t feel like there is right now.

[This message edited by DividedWeFall at 8:14 PM, January 10th (Thursday)]

All this was happening while I was being a perfect husband. I was unaware of any marital problems. I thought we were beyond the emotional affair from 4 years ago. She was flirtatious with me. We had an active sex life. We planned and went on vacations including a 10-year anniversary trip. I supported her in every way and told her I loved her daily.

I'm not trying to be callous, (and I haven't read your previous thread yet) but it sounds like you tried doing the "pick me dance," which never works. You can be the perfect spouse and still get cheated on, because affairs have nothing to do with your marriage/relationship and entirely to do with your WW's brokenness, selfishness, entitlement and lack of boundaries.

Again, can anyone share a sign of hope that someone who is capable of this much selfish destruction is capable of drastic and speedy permanent change? Is there hope that I will be able to be intimate with this person again?

What consequences has she faced for her actions? If she was your child, and this was her third DUI, would you still give her the keys to your car? If she was an employee, and this was the third time she was caught stealing for you, and you hadn't pressed charges the last two times, would you still trust her to work the cash register?

What consequences has she faced for her cheating? Have you asked for a separation? A post-nup? A favorable divorce (for you) with the possibility of remarriage on the table? What incentive does she have to change, when she's already done this twice before and you two are still married?

Two things to keep in mind: we cannot control our spouses, and therefore we cannot make them change; only they can truly decide to do that.

And, we show people how we want to be treated. If you don't want a d-day #4, my advice is to take a HARD line now.

Divided, I see a lot of excuses for your WW. If you want a chance at R, you need to drop the excuses. At A #3, there's no such thing as this:

She didn’t want to, was too naïve to, or incapably of warding them all off.

She had 2 other As to know exactly what she was doing. She did it because she wanted to and she knew she wasn't really risking much if your response before was to take some of the blame and not show her any consequences. It's pretty easy to risk the marriage if you don't believe your spouse will leave and you have a history of two other As to back it up.

So what's going to be different this time? Do you have full transparency - access to her phone, email, social media, etc.? Is she in IC to figure out her brokenness and learn boundaries? Will she read "Not Just Friends" with you?

In my opinion, and that is all it is, my opinion.

If you are seriously considering R, don't tell her. She needs to be scared, scared that she is losing everything. I would use the 180, let her think she is losing everything. Then see if she truly tried to win you back. It's easy to pretend for 30 days, get you off your guard, then go back to old habits.

She needs to seek some serious counseling and needs to figure out how to fix her brokenness. Dig to the root of things and that is an emotionally painful process. SHe needs to go through the pain to heal. Like a friend of mine told me, "change is death" the old habits need to die so the new ones can live. She needs to understand the consequences, she needs to believe that if she so much as thinks about another man, your gone. You will have to sell this belief to her. She needs to believe you are gone unless she works her a$$ off to prove she is truly making changes. You will have to let her cry without comfort from you. You will have to sell it hard. She needs to believe that you are willing to walk and need to be convinced that there is a reason to stay. You have to be willing to be tough, resist the urge to "win her back" and put her in a position that she knows she has to do the work or lose it all. She needs to fight to keep you. After all you are still there for now and that is more than she honestly deserves.

That's what you need to do if you want true R, anything less you'll have more false R and a DDay 4 on your horizon...

Personally. I would cut my losses and run. But, it is your life, and I respect that you can make your own choices and you are willing to live with the crap until she is able to succeed or fail. I get that too.

^^^ This

If you are seriously considering R, don't tell her. She needs to be scared, scared that she is losing everything. I would use the 180, let her think she is losing everything. Then see if she truly tried to win you back. It's easy to pretend for 30 days, get you off your guard, then go back to old habits.

As a WW this is the only thing that got me off my ass to do the work during my 15+ YEARS of rugsweeping. Something would happen to trigger my BS and most of the time I would be sitting with him when it happened but I would not open my mouth. I would selfishly act like nothing occurred and then days would go by where the sadness and frustration in my husband would boil over and he would stop his daily routine. It was this stop action that put me INTO action.

We would carry on like this for those 15+ years until I finally woke up to the fact that I did not want to be this person any more. I wanted to heal him for HIM, not for me. He deserves a wife that actively gives a shit about him and about herself to WANT to be a better human being.

You have to disrupt her world to get her attention.

Other WWs on this site did not have to waste their BS youth as I have done while getting their shit together and I hope she does not take as long as I did to come to this realization.

I am so sorry for your pain and wishing you strength and energy to face what's to come.

Thank you all for the quick responses above. I appreciate them and wanted to address a couple of the comments.

As far as the pick me dance. I understand it and I see how that could be perceived. But the truth is I’ve always been this way. I’ve always worked to make her happy. I’ve always enjoyed making her happy. I’ve always felt like I treated her perfectly. I didn’t change behavior after the emotional affair. Its just who I am. And I know the affair has nothing to do with my behavior but its nearly impossible to separate how I treated her versus how she treated me.

What consequences has she faced from previous bad behavior? If I’m being honest with myself – almost nothing. In hindsight, her behavior (lack of change) after the first emotional affair is probably what doomed the marriage. Our counseling wasn’t good. I didn’t know that until now. There was no direction from the counselor about boundaries or me laying out my safety zone to stay in the marriage. I had a 1 year old baby and I thought I was doing the right thing for everyone by trusting her and moving on. I was certain she was sorry and devastated and would protect herself and us from this happening again. I was wrong. However, there are consequences this time. She knows this is likely the end of our marriage. She’s told friends she’s going to lose everything that matters. I’m prepared to divorce as long as I get a favorable custody agreement. The burden is on her to change and prove she can change. But I’m certainly kicking myself for not playing hardball 4 years ago. I’m a trusting person who continues to get burned.

Excuses for her behavior. When I said, “She didn’t want to, was too naïve to, or incapable of warding them all off.”, I don’t think that’s an excuse. I’ve come to terms that she didn’t want to ward them of. She did this as a conscious act because it made her feel good. I’ve also come to terms that she is an addict. Addicts live lies to get what they want. Her drinking problem is just one thing. She’s had a history of drug use (before me) and shows addictive behaviors in many other things. This is the root of the double life, lying, and making choices without regards to consequences. It makes reconciliation that much harder. Because I’m not dealing with someone with the full capacity to change.

I understand the 180 and I’m trying to work on that now. It’s still so fresh (day 10) that my pain, insecurity, anger, sadness and hopelessness are evident. This morning I stayed strong. She was very upset and frazzled getting ready for work and I pretty much ignored it. I smiled and wished her a good day. I do know that the more I mope around and feel sorry for myself, the harder it is for her to realize what she is about to lose. So, I will continue working on this. Thanks for the feedback.

And yes, we are both in IC and CC currently. In fact, we will have had 5 sessions this week after tomorrow.

[This message edited by DividedWeFall at 8:33 AM, January 10th (Thursday)]

Reading your posts, the one thing that screams out at me is that you are a codependent type, a guy who finds his relationships via trying to fix broken women. To be a hero.

That is a self-defeating approach to women. Believe me, I've been there. You can try to save a woman, or a friend, but you do it for them. It will NOT make them love you more (or at all), nor will it even make them respect you.

I used to do this. The response of people like us is to try to do even more, be even more of a hero, in an effort to prove our "worth" and win them back. It's a cousin of the "pick-me dance", but a way more dysfunctional cousin. It is doomed to fail. If you keep doing what you're doing, you'll keep getting what you're getting. If you do more of what you're doing, you'll get more of what you're getting.

I'm not telling you to leave her. I'm telling you that you need to change the fundamental nature of your entire relationship dynamic. If you don't, this type of issue will be with you forever.

@Butforthegrace: I agree with you. Our therapist essentially said the same thing - that I am a codependent. My first marriage was very similar. The question is what do I do about it on a day to day basis. They truth is, my wife is broken. Do I just ignore that? I know I can't "fix" her. But I have to still care about her and support her if we want this to work. Seems like a gray area. I can't suddenly turn into a callous and uncaring person. I am who I am. Any specific guidance?

Are you going to Al-Anon? Have you read anything by Melody Beattie?

I'm married to a recovering sex addict.

Of course I love him and care about him.

His addiction and repairing our marriage...that's his to fix not mine. I'm not the addict.

I would not accept that your wife can change in 30 days.

I would request years...two, maybe 3.

Your wife destroyed your life because she's an active addict. It's a hard pill to swallow, when you realize that your wife's first love, is not you. It's her addiction.

You know, they also have Ala-Teen, too, for kids, for a reason.

Addiction is a family disease.

You do you. Figure out your boundaries. See if your wife is willing to put the work in to recover. Then go from there.

There is no such thing as drastic and speedy permanent change. Your wife needs to experience consequences.

Right now your focus should be you and your son. Not your wife. I think you need IC. Figure out why you do what you do. I think you rug swept the previous incident. Are you certain that it wasn't a PA? See an attorney. Not saying you must divorce, but you need to prepare for divorce. Evict her from your bedroom. 30 days will prove nothing.

The brokenness is in her. And she has to figure it out. Take care of yourself.

You will continue to feel hopeless and experience many more DDays if you continue to do the pick me dance & view your wife as a victim. She is many things (serial cheater being #1), but a naive victim is certainly one thing that she’s not. It is evident that you are willing and ready to rugsweep, so I’m just going to wish you good luck with that.

I'd only echo what's already been said

she's an addict and a SERIAL CHEATER that has not had to face consequences for her CHOSEN actions

do a 180

Do a postnup

List the requirements to even stick around while she figures out her end of the street

you do you - focus on you

I'm so sorry you are here having a third dday....

Let me second the codependent thing. You really need to look at that and how it is very toxic with the wrong person. IC keep going. CC can wait. AT this point is there really a M to try to save ? Does your W really want to stay M'd to you ? Why? Is it for the "right" reasons ? Or is it because you both are afraid of the unknown ? Or because you both settled into a very dysfunctional dynamic and neither knows any different ?

You are a giver and she is taker. The problem with a person with a personality like hers is that at some point there is nothing left to take. She needs more to take. So she find an additional supply. She is a validation vampire. She no longer gets the same benefit from your validation. She bigger and bigger doses just to feel normal. She's got issues that no non-professional can solve in a short time. Group therapy ? No. She needs individual counseling with a p-doc as I suspect there is more mentally there than she alludes to.

Her troubled past and addictions explain why she ended up where she is, but it doesn't excuse it.

I will be honest with you. A three time adulterer is a pattern. She did not "mess up," this is a serial pattern with cheating.

CC is pointless unless you use it to create more of your own oneness in the relationship. IC for her and you. You are going to naturally get to work more from your CODA tendencies without her in the room.

I read your posts and the only word that comes to mind is, "martyr." In the purest definition Martyr's have to die to be recognized for their sacrifices. Of course this is a methaphor and not literal. Hopefully you see my point. Martyr's are looking to the next life not the one they are currently in. Martyr's received no benefit in the present for their deeds and likely aren't around to enjoy them either.

A life of martyrdom ensures that you will not enjoy the rest of your life.

Before you think I am being hard on you, please listen. You are where I was 7 years ago. I sacrificed, did not bring up things when they went wrong and tried to keep the peace. You know what that got me ? A guy who really hated himself, his life and resented my wife to the point that I could barely look at her. Is that what you want ? My guess is no.

We can talk about the nobility of sacrifice all we want, but when dealing with someone as selfish as your W it crosses a line from noble to naive.

Look I get it. I get the rationale better than most. I've lived it myself and I have to tell you it is not any way to live. I spent so much time trying to make my family happy that I invested too much in it. When things went south it left me emotionally bankrupt. You do not need a relationship or family to define you. I am sure you are one heck of a guy just by yourself. Why is that not enough ?

You talk about this as it relates to her, but this is really about you. What do you really want? Notice I did not say what you think you should do or what was best for everyone. What do you want in the future ?

If this is where you want to be for next x number of years, fine. You already have that. I hear you saying you want something else. You need to look for what that is and go in that direction 100%.

Not making any sudden choices is wise, but it seems like you settled in that spot from before and never really left. Familiar is not the same as "safe." different doesn't mean "worse," it just means different.

Your W has her own journey and needs to figure her crap out. You have to admit her actions don't line up with her words. What would you call that if it wasn't your W ? Your love is blinding you from her very real and big faults. She knows that and literally expects you will be upset for awhile, but ultimately are too scared of the unknown to do anything about it. She has now called that bluff three times. You have a tell and she always wins those hands.

You need to draw a very thin and immovable line in the sand. If that line is crossed it is the end of your M. You've given her more chances than she has given you, right ?

Again, this is about you and what is in your control. What parts of your life give it meaning and what looks like it does, but in reality doesn't hold up under cross examination.

You need to diversify your life so that your W and child aren't the only things that define you. When you invest all your money in one stock and that company goes chapter 11 you lose everything. Think about it. I suspect that is why you are feeling this way. You made your wife and son you're whole world. That is why it feels like the world is ending for you.

FWIW I am happily reconciled after 7 years so I know what I am talking about and I really do believe people can change as I've seen my W do that. However your W cannot change "speedily," and giving her that time could lead to DDay #4. You need to ask yourself how long and how many more As can you endure? This is not healthy for you or even your son. Where do you make a stand ? She might be able to change or she may not be able to. I know that with any addict tough love is just about the only thing that really works. They need to want to change too. Your W doesn't seem like she wants to do so. You don't control your drinking by going to AA. You go to AA to stop drinking realizing that you are an addict. You can't be "kind of sober," there is sober and there is a drunk. There is not a third option.

Addicts are too good at lying and manipulating peoples trust to get what they want, even if what they want is very harmful to them. Some people don't want to be saved. That might be hard to hear, but it is the truth.

Being noble isn't the same as being an enabler. Please look up Alanon is your area. I really think you need their help. Denial got you here. You need to look at everything with your eyes wide open from now on. No filters, no mental gymnastics to excuse anything on her behalf.

I know I sound harsh, but I see so much of where I was a long time ago and it pains me to hear that people are living that way when they don't have to. It takes strength, courage and doing what is uncomfortable more than standing still, but it is so, so worth it. You have to accept that might mean your M may not survive, but it also means that you will.

R can/does work, but it doesn't without being brutally honesty with yourself first.

ETA: I agree with N&D.

You seem to see your W as a Victim here, but she started on an abstinence program (AA) with a goal of not being abstinent ('controlling her drinking'). That's not being a Victim; that's screwing up intentionally.

We would carry on like this (i.e. rug sweeping) for those 15+ years until I finally woke up to the fact that I did not want to be this person any more.

That's what both you and your W need to do.

You need to decide to be authentic and autonomous. She needs to do the same, and to stop drinking, and to change from cheater to good partner.

I know that's a scary prospect. Change always is. I know these are difficult tasks, much easier to say than to do.

But both of you can do your work successfully. You both have the strength you need.

BTW, IMO, R requires 3 healings: 1) BS heals BS; 2) WS heals WS; 3) together you create a new M that serves both of you.

That means you can heal without your W. She can heal without you.

But it all starts with one of you waking up and deciding to change yourself.

[This message edited by sisoon at 3:32 PM, January 10th (Thursday)]

The truth is, my wife is broken. Do I just ignore that? I know I can't "fix" her. But I have to still care about her and support her if we want this to work. Seems like a gray area. I can't suddenly turn into a callous and uncaring person. I am who I am. Any specific guidance?

I was exactly you. Still am to some extent. But in my really bad codependent relationship, my xWGF dumped me for her AP and solved the problem for me. She's still a broken person, by the way, 30 years later.

What you have to realize is that you can't help her unless she asks for and wants your help. If she's not seeking your help, then everything you're doing to "help" her is meaningless. It's like trying to hand money to a poor person, but unwittingly putting the money in a fire where it's burning away. The poor person stays poor and does not appreciate your effort, whilst you work your ass off and sacrifice yourself shoveling your money. Stop doing it. That's not being callous. That is being realistic about the dynamic.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 6:07 PM, January 10th (Thursday)]

Ok, Thanks all. I think I’ve had enough of the “positive” advice in the reconciliation forum. My gosh. The first few posts were very helpful and then just a bunch of judgment and short-sighted advice was given.

-

You are a martyr and a life of martyrdom ensures you won’t enjoy the rest of your life.

Wow @numb&dumb – thanks for that positive guidance when I’m at my lowest.

- @numb&dumb – you may think we are similar but we are not. I’m an incredibly happy and positive person. I don’t regret putting my family and my WW first. If I cannot get over the resentment, I will move on – trust me. But I’m not there yet.

- @numb&dumb -

You need to diversify your life so that your W and child aren't the only things that define you.

More judgement, You don’t know me. Back off. I’m not defined by my wife and child.

- @sisoon – where did I make my wife the victim? Re-read the post.

“She acted completely selfishly with no regard for me, our son, our family, our friends, our marriage vows. Literally she threw away everything for a romp with a regular guy she had no intention of being with long term. It feels unforgivable to me now.”

I know my WW did a horrible thing. She behaved horribly. She did this consciously. She had no regard for me or our 12 years together. I get that. But I know she is not a horrible person. She just made horrible choices. There’s a difference. I only wrote about her bad behavior in a few paragraphs. If I wrote about all the joy we’ve had for 12 years and all the wonderful things she’s done with and for me, it would be a few hundred paragraphs. I posted here for encouragement on a very difficult journey I am going to attempt. I don’t need you telling me that I can be happiest if I dump this serial cheater. I’ve been through a divorce. There are no guarantees that path forward is any brighter than one with a truly changed WW. I’m trying to see if that change can occur. She is devastated and remorseful. I can see that this episode is completely different that what happened with the emotional affair 4 years ago. Its night and day. We are talking several times a day. We've had 5 therapy sessions this week. She knows she destroyed everything. She is feeling the pain. I’m going to see where it goes from here without calling a divorce lawyer just yet. I can do that at anytime in the future. I’m not going to hand out a life sentence to my WW, my 3 sons, my family, my friends and myself just yet either. But thanks for the advice. I will leave now.

[This message edited by DividedWeFall at 8:21 PM, January 10th (Thursday)]

I know my WW did a horrible thing. She behaved horribly. She did this consciously. She had no regard for me or our 12 years together. I get that. But I know she is not a horrible person. She just made horrible choices. There’s a difference. I only wrote about her bad behavior in a few paragraphs. If I wrote about all the joy we’ve had for 12 years and all the wonderful things she’s done with and for me, it would be a few hundred paragraphs. I posted here for encouragement on a very difficult journey I am going to attempt. I don’t need you telling me that I can be happiest if I dump this serial cheater. I’ve been through a divorce. There are no guarantees that path forward is any brighter than one with a truly changed WW. I’m trying to see if that change can occur. She is devastated and remorseful. I can see that this episode is completely different that what happened with the emotional affair 4 years ago. Its night and day. We are talking several times a day. We've had 5 therapy sessions this week. She knows she destroyed everything. She is feeling the pain. I’m going to see where it goes from here without calling a divorce lawyer just yet. I can do that at anytime in the future. I’m not going to hand out a life sentence to my WW, my 3 sons, my family, my friends and myself just yet either. But thanks for the advice. I will leave now.

Your WW is a horrible person (at least in my book and I bet you I'm not alone), she made those "horrible choices" willingly, intentionally and knowing it would hurt you and put the stability of her family at risk, more over she's done this several times, she is a SERIAL CHEATER, see here on SI we typically don't tell you necessarily what you want to hear but rather what we think you need to hear, you've tried it your way a couple of times and basically rugswept everything with no major consequences. You seem hellbent on R, your WW seems to have major issues with alcohol and infidelity, R is hard enough with a totally remorseful WW who cheated one time, to successfully R with a SERIAL CHEATER who's also an alcoholic makes it not impossible but that much more difficult, btw at least right now you seem hellbent on R so how many more times would she have to cheat for you to file for D ? I ask this because some of the reasons you gave for staying are pretty standard and won't change for a long time (your child, the life you've built), you need to ask yourself when enough is enough, she's had plenty of chances and she has blown them up.

Successful R without a remorseful WS is simply not possible, your WW is NOT remorseful, way too soon for that, she just regrets getting caught, she did not confess. The collective wisdom of SI says "You have to be willing to end your M in order to save it", she killed the M, I suggest you file for D, it takes a long time and can always be stopped before it's final, if she comes around, shows true remorse, agrees to full on demand access to all her electronic devices and passwords, apologizes to both your families for her huge betrayal, agrees to sign a post-nuptial agreement in your favor in case you later realized this was/is a deal-breaker for you or she cheats again and commits to doing the heavy lifting for years to restore the M, then and only then should you just CONSIDER giving her the gift of R yet again, or NOT !!! either way you get out of infidelity.

I know my WW did a horrible thing. She behaved horribly. She did this consciously. She had no regard for me or our 12 years together. I get that. But I know she is not a horrible person. She just made horrible choices.

It's amazing to me that infidelity is the only situation in the world where you can destroy someone emotionally, give them a condition that frequently involves depression, PTSD, etc that takes 2 - 5 years to heal with therapy and it's okay because at least you're not really a bad person who grievously harmed another person. I can't think of a single situation where someone physically beat another person to the point where they had PTSD and required 2 - 5 years to fully heal where it wasn't illegal, deserving of considerable prison time, and widely recognized as a thing that says a lot about the offender's moral compass. Some how because there's no bruising or damage that you can see, it's much better to abuse your spouse with infidelity than it is to beat them. Doesn't matter that the psychological damage and the pain is basically the same.

Your WW has the potential for redemption. She may have been a good person before the cheated the first time and she could become a good person again after this 3rd time. But while she was cheating and in between 3 As, she was not a good person. Good people simply don't cause grievous harm to their spouses, the ones they vow to honor and cherish, like that just like good people don't beat their spouse. They especially don't do it after seeing the pain and suffering their spouse goes through the first and second time. If your WW hit you physically, we would tell you she was an abuser who was escalating and tell you to get out before she kills you and we would have all of the statistics to back that up. That may not be exactly what's happening but the point is you have to take a hard line with her and start focusing more on yourself this time around.

The 180 is not to punish her. It's not the be cold and unattached. In fact, if you look up things like the Gray Rock technique (very similar) then you will see how it's easy to be polite and cordial without getting bogged down by someone else's emotions and issues. In your case, it's to prevent you from rushing in as the KISA and doing everything for her, saving her from the emotional fall out that she needs to face, excusing the consequences of her actions, etc. She NEEDS to face the destruction. She NEEDS to take accountability which includes that she was a bad person when she made these horrible choices and account for why she made hundreds or thousands of choices that hurt you especially when she knew they would. If she doesn't do this, you have zero hope at R and you can't do it for her.

Consequences and boundaries are not a bad thing, they help children learn right from wrong, grow their moral compass. This continues into adulthood, knowing there are consequences helps people make decisions in business, relationships, hell even how much to spend on those shoes you really really like!

WS have weak boundaries, you can't nice them back into the marriage and be certain it'll stay safe for you. It's almost like going back to when your children were young and you stated teaching them their actions had consequences.

You don't have to be mean or harsh, you can still be supportive but you do have to set consequences and be consistent!

Dividedwefall- I posted that knowing that I might get a similar response to the one you gave me. It hit a nerve I 100% understand why. The things that get the biggest reactions are the very same things we need to consider the most. It is your life and I have literally zero vested interest in whatever you decide. It is your life and your call on what you are going to do. I can only offer things that worked for me or other BS I have talked to. Maybe they will work for you, maybe they won't. I have no idea because I am not you and it impossible to come up with a catch all for every situation because they are all so different.

Look, I am not judging you at all. Doing so would judging myself at the same time. I see codependency in spades with you and that is why this hurts so deep. Even without co-dependency infidelity is hardest thing most of us will ever endure in our lives. I am not going to give you easy answers or tell you what you want to hear. That doesn't help you.

Anyone who gives you easy or quick fixes cares more about their own enrichment that your healing. There are plenty of those, sold for $ 39.95 plus shipping and handling. This is a marathon not a sprint and most experts agree that healing from infidelity takes 2-5 years.

As I said in my post I am happily reconciled 7 years out. I,like you, was at this point in my life and I know what worked for me. You can take it or leave it. Again, your life, not mine.

Sticking it out for kids or finances? That is very common reason for BS to stay in a M that has experienced infidelity. It was for me too. It provides you strength at time when you feel like you have none. JMHO that is not wrong in the short term. It has move beyond that if you really want to be free from infidelity.

My point stands that either D or R the trauma is already there and it is something that you need to work through. No one can do it for you. You deal with it or it will deal with you in many ways for the rest of your life. Infidelity is traumatic, it changes you and your life can't go back to the way that it was. It doesn't mean it has to be bad. You can use this opportunity (probably doesn't feel like one now) to create a dividedwefall 2.0. That is something no one can ever take away from you.

IC is really good place to start that journey. I am not telling you have to do this. I don't know you from Adam and whatever you do decide I think we would both agree that where you are today is not a place you want to stay. You have choices, lots of them. As a matter of fact you have the same choices today that you have had since the day you were M'd. You will have those same choices tomorrow.

Your Ws choices are not yours to own. You bear no responsibility for her A. However it happened, it can't be changed and you do have to deal with it. That is the cruelest injustice in being a betrayed spouse. As you see the first sentence in this paragraph as truth that injustice gets much easier to reconcile in your head.