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It's a question on my mind currently as I have a family member and a friend dealing with bereavement. I also know someone who is experiencing betrayal in her current relationship after losing her husband and the father of her son a few years ago.

In IC they seem to relate the two grieving processes as very similar.

The person I know who has experienced both bereavement and beyrayal stated that the current situation was harder to deal with than the death.

I wonder if this is because in bereavement the person has no choice in leaving you.

Why should betrayal hurt more because the person did have a choice in the betrayal or because we can't cope with rejection?

I'm sure there are studies on this but wondered what the thoughts of our members were.

I can't speak for everybody, but I know that my wife's affair is much harder to grieve than any death I've dealt with (which has unfortunately been a lot). For me, it was the fact that there were so many lies to uncover, and every time I uncovered one, it was DDay all over again. Every time she would TT, it was DDay all over again.

I believe that when someone dies, we can accept it because as you said, they had no choice to leave us, and we know that at some point everyone will die. With a betrayal, at some point (or many points), they made a conscience decision to personally betray us to fulfill some selfish desire.

Also, when dealing with death, unless it's a suicide, we generally know "why" or "how" it happened. With an affair, it is much harder to figure out the "why" or "how", unless they're willing or even able to tell us, which seems to be pretty rare, so we are stuck trying desperately to figure out why, to finally get some closure.

[This message edited by joecardinals at 5:28 AM, April 26th (Friday)]

I think grief is grief and is very much the same no matter what painful truth you are grieving, but while bereavement is loss, betrayal is loss + rejection. And that is more devastation to handle.

I don't see a similarity. I lost my Dad unexpectedly in 1995. I lost my Mother a few years ago. I did the eulogies for both. I come from a close large family. Dad's passing was probably toughest because it was so sudden. Mom had cancer and it was expected so different but still a painful loss. I still think about Dad in ways like "I wonder what Dad would think about that". I've never lost a child.

The passing of both my parents together cannot even come close to the devastation of DDay. I didn't get PTSD from my parents passing. I did from her adultery and the following multiple DDays, TT, defensiveness, aggressive attacking, etc.

There have been people here on SI that I can't name or refer to threads who have lost children, been raped and who claim the betrayal by there spouse was worse. I do remember one (and there are probably more) though who said the loss of their child was worse. One of the ladies who said the betrayal was worse found her 17 year old son who had committed suicide.

To me the betrayal was exponentially worse than any bereavement I've experienced.

I've been thinking about this a whole lot lately.

My best friend, we have been very close since we were very young, about 10. He is more like my brother but more. We have been there for each other all through our lives. He is the one person that was really there for me in real life that helped me through all the fallout from the x. He went above and beyond. Well, he is dying from brain cancer now. He only has a few weeks left. I am in a constant state of grief. It feels familiar but different.

How I am experiencing the difference is that there is no conflict in the grief. I will miss him. I hurt because he is hurting. I want him to remain in my life. I want to ease his suffering. I want to spend time with him. It is all so straight forward. It hurts like hell but I am not conflicted. He is not making a choice to do something that causes me pain. I love him and who he is and I know he loves me.

With the x, it just made my brain spin. I was grieving but it felt like grieving for a ghost, for someone that never existed. I was grieving for what I imagined he was. He was a Jekyll and Hyde type, unpredictable. Kind and then abusive, most likely deeply disturbed. That is being kind. I did not want him in my life but at the same time I missed him, well who I imagined he was.

It was so confusing. I felt ashamed for missing someone that would treat me that way. I felt that I had to put on a front so that others could not see how hurt I was.

With my friend it is accepted by everyone that I am grieving. I have support. There is no conflict about how I "should" feel.

I don't know that I could say that it is easier, just different. Somehow the word pure comes to mind. Perhaps what I mean is honest.

Just my early morning rambling. Awake with an aching heart. It feels familiar but different.

"I can't speak for everybody, but I know that my wife's affair is much harder to grieve than any death I've dealt with"

completely agree, and people are so judgmental about this. people die right in front of us, there are no secrets and the ground we walk on doesn't shake. but with betrayal, it does.

Five years ago my Dad died from an aggressive cancer only 52 days after we found out. It was sudden, unexpected, and it shocked me.

With cancer I knew what I was fighting. My mind was on automatic, doing this and that, finding that medicine, talking to this doctor and this doctor every day/hour, buying him things, talking to him, taking care of him at the hospital and then at home. Even in the worst moments, I was trying to cheer him up, and he always had a smile for me. Everything that came from his mouth when he could talk clearly was positive.

Yes, it caused pain, during the process and after. I cried. A lot. But sometime after his death came a sense of closure and calm knowing all of us (even him) are now in a state of peace.

This pain (the betrayal) is totally different.

D-Day was horrible. The correct comparison is one that I learned here on SI: it's a nuclear bomb.

It shocked me, in more ways than cancer. It blocked me. Couldn't eat/sleep (still today can't sleep well). It stopped my life. (Yes, Dad cancer changed my routine and had to take a leave of absence at work to be there for him, but again, I was on automatic mode). My mind is a mess, fighting not with external factors (doctors, labs, treatments), but with insecurities, ambivalence, lies. Each day, I yearn for that peaceful smile for my Dad, instead, sadness, sometimes indifference, and confusion it's what I get.

And instead of getting support from a great network of friends who were there during and after cancer... Now I have to limit that support to IC, because (again, it's a nuclear bomb) the friends network has become a victim of the A. (I have to add that in my case, the A was going on thru this time, so, now, there's no loving support from the person who I trusted most and cried with, WW, and obviously, no support from the person who I also trusted (and my Dad also did until his death) since kids, POSOM.

So, yes, they are totally different. Totally.

Yes, it's worse than grieving any death. Except your own children, that I cannot judge.

I don't wish my ex dead. I do wish I had never met her. She never loved me, and only married me so she could have children on her timetable. I can't forgive that.

I agree it is so different. Our WS have caused so much damage I doubt they will ever understand the depth of the pain.

For me, betrayal has been worse and has had more negative lasting effects in my life. I did lose a child many years ago and it was/still is terribly painful. But as others said, except in the case of suicide, no one chooses to die and leave you. Someone dying doesn't make you question if you can trust anyone. It doesn't make you question yourself, your judgment. Being cheated on is lonely. No one is showing up with casseroles and beautiful poetry. It scares many people. People want to blame you and think you must've done something for it to happen, just so they can feel that they have some control over it happening to them.

The deaths I’ve experience in my life haven’t come close to the pain I felt from the affair. I’ve been sexually assaulted and that didn’t come close. I have a ton more, but don’t want to make this too identifying. Let’s just say it’s extensive.

Nothing I’ve experienced compares. This was by far the worst thing I’ve ever experienced in my life. To be betrayed in such a manner by the one person who is supposed to have your back is just too much for the mind to accept. I couldn’t deal with it for a long time. I do the steps are the same for the grieving process, you just have to go backwards and repeat them a lot.

I do remember one (and there are probably more) though who said the loss of their child was worse.

I am one of those people.

I have experienced a great deal of trauma in my life, including abuse, rape and infidelity, all of which resulted in PTSD. My DD's sudden death has resulted in a level of PTSD, pain and heartache beyond what I had experienced with all of the other traumas combined. It has profoundly altered and impacted my life.

Also, when dealing with death, unless it's a suicide, we generally know "why" or "how" it happened.

I know "how" my DD was killed, the police and medical examiner's reports made it very clear and in very graphic detail. I saw and felt the damage done to her body. And, all of that still haunts me.

I know why she died (IOW, I know what the fatal injuries were), but I don't know why she was killed. I may never know, or understand, what was going through the mind of the accused. The case is still before the courts, and aside from pleading not guilty we have heard nothing from the accused, and the fact is, we may never get answers.

This has been my own personal experience and in no way is meant to diminish the experiences of others.

[This message edited by onlytime at 3:27 PM, April 26th (Friday)]

onlytime - I'm so very sorry.

I think OwningItNow said it best:

I think grief is grief and is very much the same no matter what painful truth you are grieving, but while bereavement is loss, betrayal is loss + rejection. And that is more devastation to handle.

In my opinion betrayal is much more devastating.

In accordance with what onlytime stated, I’ve seen a number of posts here that the only thing worse than infidelity is the loss of a child.

I'm so very sorry Onlytime - I lost my youngest daughter to a brain tumor but as hard as it was, by the time the end was near, it was expected and mercifully peaceful. I have good memories of her that are true ... with betrayal it's not just the now - it's also losing what you thought was your past.

My WS's betrayal has been the worst thing that has happened to me so far. I have lost relatives and it hasn't come close to this grief.

I can't imagine losing a child and my heart goes out to any of you who have...I think that would be the worst.

I have also been molested, gang raped, and beaten up by an ex-boyfriend and none of those things caused me the type of pain my WS has. My life has been irreparably changed by my WS's and the False R he put me through.

I was married 40 years when my H had a six month affair with an old girlfriend, it was devastating for sure. I was one of the lucky BS’s because he did everything right to make it up to me. We worked very hard and had lots of ups and down as anyone reconciling can attest to. The affair woke us both up and although it was difficult it also brought us closer. We became one again. It is coming up to my three year DD anniversary. My husband died suddenly three months ago. My grief is unbearable. An affair brings up feelings of loss, betrayal, anger. His death brings loss and grief. There are no decisions to be made, stay, leave, work, give up. There is only only loss . My heart is broken like never before.

Pugglebull - I am so sorry for your loss. Losing a loved one suddenly is so hard. My Dad died suddenly of a heart attack 30 years ago and I still grieve that I never got to tell him goodbye.

I think there are too many variables to compare bereavement and betrayal.

Although I have never lost a child - several years ago our son had to have emergency open heart surgery. He had an undiagnosed heart tumor (a myxoma) that has broken apart and pieces had hit several of his organs including his aorta and was blocking the blood flow to his legs. A cardiac specialist was called in and we were told he needed surgery immediately. First they would do surgery to unblock the aorta to get the blood flowing or he would lose his legs. They would allow him to rest for a few hours and then do the open heart surgery.

He had a four hour surgery to unblock the aorta and bought him to cardiac ICU to rest before the open heart surgery. They kept him sedated - he was hooked up to so many machines - heart monitor, catheter, breathing machine, ekg - he was in such critical shape they waived the 15 minute visiting limit for ICU and allowed us to stay in his room the entire night.

As I sat there that night I felt so helpless - there was nothing I could do - the outcome was beyond my control. The next morning they took him to surgery and the doctor told us it would take a minimum of 8 hours. Those hours were endless - my child was fighting for his life and I couldn't even be with him - his life was in the hands of people I didn't even know -- all I could do was pray - the feeling of helplessness was horrible.

As devastating as Dday was - the hurt, the shock, the devastation - I knew I had choices. Yes, he made the choice to cheat - but I had control of the outcome - I could set boundaries - I could decide on R or D - I had some power - I couldn't control him - but I could and did set my boundaries and told him I would settle for nothing less.

My son's surgeries and my H's A have changed me - any traumatic experience will change a person. If I could go back in time and keep one of those from happening - I would chose that my son's surgeries didn't have to happen. That feeling of helpless - watching everything he went through - to this day I still feel the helplessness when I think about it.

FOr me betrayal is worse....death happens...its over...its hard...its part of life cycle...unexpected death is much harder....childs death even harder....it is final...

betrayal is being betrayed...its choices...its done on purpose...its chosen...the pain is huge...knowing its chosen, makes it worse...then there are the lies, the TT's, gaslighting, all ,also chosen...stretching out the pain...discovering new pain...on going pain....not to mention any repeats of all the above....it is not a cycle of life...it shouldn't be...its shock...its not suppose to happen...and then it does....accepting is hard. All by the one you love and trust most...again, betrayed...

its a terrible scar...and you are expected to live , move forward , like it never happened...hoping it doesn't happen again. It hoovers..its not over...its never over...its death of a relationship, over and over. ..living the huge loss.. Its not final.

FOr me it felt like ground hogs day....there was no end...all by WH choices. All on purpose.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 5:45 PM, April 26th (Friday)]