SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

A little background: the H and I have been together only 2 years, married for 1 and 1/2.

I'm soon to be 50, widowed from my 1st husband, and he's 45 and twice divorced.

It was a whirlwind romance and I was so happy that I allowed myself to get carried away and married too soon, before real trust had built.

My family expressed some doubts about the relationship, mainly because I'm better off financially and they were concerned that he had ulterior motives.

After we married I started to panic a bit and wonder if I'd made a mistake...there were a couple of red flags while we were dating: unpaid taxes and child support...and a tendency to get really loud and shout when angry. However, I didn't have any fears that he would be unfaithful. He even said that he didn't think I'd ever divorce him..unless he cheated on me and he claimed he would never do that.

One day I decided to snoop in his phone...with no actual suspicion, just curiosity and a nagging doubt that wouldn't go away. I looked at his web browser and found one page open: a site called Cityxguide (now shut down), that was advertising what appeared to be escorts and happy ending massage parlors. I was upset by this, so I admitted to him that I looked and asked him about it. This was his story: he and his friend would kill time at work trying to guess which of the adverts were real people and which were web cams or as he called them "bots". Whoever guessed correctly was treated to lunch. Sounds kind of stupid, right? But it sounded just dumb enough to be true to me. He said they'd been playing this game for years and he'd never hired an escort. He also said that he realized it looked bad and he promised to not go on the site ever again because as a married man it wasn't right.

Fast forward to a little more than a year later, April of 2020. I'm working from home, he's not working at that time, but doing home projects and hanging out at home. One day he tells me he's going out to his property, an hour and a half away to pick up the rent from his tenant (also the friend he played that game with).

H is a very casual dresser...but he comes to kiss me goodbye and he has on his nice jeans and a sweater..this is dinner attire for him. I asked him where he was going all gussied up and we joked that he was going to go be socially non-distant with someone. We laughed about that and he left.

Around 1pm I saw that I missed a call from him so I called him back....and he sounded really strange...annoyed with me and almost angry...he made some excuse about traffic or something. He ran some errands and got home before I was off work. He didn't kiss me hello...I had to ask him and that's unusual. Later that night when he took a shower I snooped in his phone again...I felt that something wasn't right. I found texts from around 12:30 that afternoon to a random number asking for the rates for a "nuru massage" (google it- this isn't a typical legit massage offering). Rates were given and an address...and H said he was 5 minutes away. (You can guess where he got the phone number from)

I confronted him and he said that he was in a bad place and made the appointment spur of the moment...but when he got to the motel to meet this person, he sat in the car for 15 min thinking about how he was messing up..and then I called him and he took that as a sign and left. He did try to place blame on me...he even said that he should've done it...at least it would've been worth his "persecution". His attitude and lack of remorse caused me to ask him to leave.

After much arguing, he agreed to couples counseling and solo counseling for himself.

In counseling, he apologized and said he'd do anything to gain my trust back. The counselor suggested I try to trust and not obsess about what he's doing all day (he's back to work now). She also talked about being transparent and the difference between privacy and secrecy. H said more than once that he can't tell me everything because I would "use it against him".

Despite his promises and my promise not to snoop (he's very adamantly against me snooping and would never voluntarily give me access to his phone)...I snooped again about a month ago and found a photo of a woman, an intimate photo, not exactly X rated, but not a pic that a woman would send to just anyone.

I asked him who she was...first he said he didn't know, but then he admitted that she's someone he's known for 30 years and she's his "best friend" ...news to me since he never mentioned her once in the time we've been together. He said he was having a bad day and he was chatting with his BFF on Snapchat and she sent him the photo to "snap him out of his bad mood". And he didn't intend to save the photo...

Later I learned that she lives 3,000 miles away, they dated briefly in high school, he hasn't seen her in person for 20yrs, but they chatted on Facebook and Snapchat regularly. He said they are just friends but when they're both single...the conversations would get sexual and they would exchange photos...sometimes nude.

Also, he admitted that when the April thing happened,he changed her name in his phone so I wouldn't get mad. Sketchy.

I think this situation hurts more than the escort thing.

I do believe that my husband loves me, but I have so many doubts about his character and ability to be faithful for the long haul.

I know I'm not blameless. I've snooped and invaded his privacy many times.

He tries to reassure me during the day and I think he's trying to win back my trust. But he will never again give me access to his phone...he says I'll misconstrue things and make a big deal about nothing.

My mind just goes in circles and I feel anxious all the time. It really sucks.

Am I a crazy, jealous, controlling woman as H would have me believe or do I have legitimate fears?

I try to see his side of things...but he doesn't understand why I feel betrayed.

He wants to move forward...and not talk about it at all.

I want to stay married...I love him very much, but I just don't know.

Do you think he'd be okay with you having "privacy" on your phone and gadgets if you were sending nudes to other guys or checking out posts online for NSA sex? Of course not.

Around 1pm I saw that I missed a call from him so I called him back....and he sounded really strange...annoyed with me and almost angry...he made some excuse about traffic or something. He ran some errands and got home before I was off work. He didn't kiss me hello...I had to ask him and that's unusual. Later that night when he took a shower I snooped in his phone again...I felt that something wasn't right. I found texts from around 12:30 that afternoon to a random number asking for the rates for a "nuru massage" (google it- this isn't a typical legit massage offering). Rates were given and an address...and H said he was 5 minutes away. (You can guess where he got the phone number from)

I confronted him and he said that he was in a bad place and made the appointment spur of the moment...but when he got to the motel to meet this person, he sat in the car for 15 min thinking about how he was messing up..and then I called him and he took that as a sign and left.

His story above doesn't sound credible. He's five minutes away at 12:30. You call him at 1:00 and he's snarling at you. That's 25 minutes after he would have arrived. But allegedly, he's sitting in his car like a choir boy, contemplating evil but deciding against it. Which does NOT explain the weird greeting when you got home. I'm thinking if I had chalked my spouse's phone call up to providence and decided not to do something awful, I'd be thrilled to see said spouse when they got home. Instead, he didn't offer the usual greeting kiss and you had to ask him for it. There was something enough off about this whole story that you searched his phone. I think your gut was telling you something. And honestly, I think if you insisted on a polygraph, his story would crumble.

This guy has been divorced twice. Did he cheat in those marriages? Do you feel comfortable enough with his ex-wives to ask them? Two years isn't really very long to know somebody. It's possible that this guy has a cheating history as long as your arm, and cheating is ALWAYS about the cheater. We don't MAKE them cheat, and we can't STOP them from cheating. There's a hole in a cheater's character which is capable of saying "yes" to perfidy.

I dunno. I'd love to be able to tell you that everything will work out. But your WH is secretive, his story is less than credible, and he's struck out with two wives already. If you do decide to stay, lock down your finances. Check with an attorney and/or a financial planner and make sure he can't ruin you.

((big hugs))

You have legitimate fears.

What you share doesn’t really make me see this man as a keeper. I’m going to be honest and frank up-front about that. That makes me worry about another aspect than his possible infidelity – his financials.

How about the taxes owed? Has that been paid?

What about the child-support?

Keep in mind CS is money that goes to the CHILDREN. Yes – the other parent is it’s guardian and is entrusted to use that money, but its purpose is to feed and clothe the minors. I don’t take owing CS lightly. I can sympathise with someone that get’s behind on CS, but I would expect any honorable father to do his best to ensure his kids have what they need. I personally would never pay for sex, but it’s definite that if he has money for an escort that cash could (and should) have gone towards his debt.

Are the taxes and the debts being handled? Are you in on that?

Are you clear on the legal and financial aspects of the debts and assets?

Often when people marry at an “older” age they do a pre-nup to protect or retain assets or debts you bring along with you. Please tell me you two did that…

What I would absolutely hate to happen is this: If your late husband was a careful man and left you with even the smallest insurance policy that set you up with an acceptable nest-egg then I would hate to see that become part of marital assets with a man who already is twice divorced, has a dubious financial background and is already cheating after such a short marriage. I would hate to see the IRS or some collection agency come knock at your door that – due to your state’s law – might be half his.

Please look into the financial and legal entwinement marriage might have gotten you into and seek legal advice on how and if you can unwind that. A family attorney could clarify that picture in a single session – letting you know if you need more time or what.

Hello, and I am very sorry you have to be here. Your post triggered all kinds of alarm bells for me. This kind of dishonesty coming from your husband typically means only one thing.

I know I'm not blameless. I've snooped and invaded his privacy many times.

This thinking needs to stop. Your gut is telling you something is wrong. Your husband has been less than forthcoming when he should be doing everything he can to make you feel secure. It feels like gaslighting to me. I am so sorry.

BentandBroken is absolutely correct. You were not wrong for snooping. Your WH is a liar and a cheat. You can't trust him so you needed to verify and you found evidence that he was lying an cheating! Don't fall for the "you invaded my privacy?!" garbage.

but I have so many doubts about his character and ability to be faithful for the long haul.

You've been married 1.5 years and your WH has already been unfaithful. I would say your doubts are justified.

In counseling, he apologized and said he'd do anything to gain my trust back.

Of course he did. But he's a proven liar, so do you believe him?

The counselor suggested I try to trust and not obsess about what he's doing all day (he's back to work now).

Fire your MC. NOW. Why should you try to trust a known liar? Shouldn't your WH have to change his behaviors FIRST, show you he is trustworthy before you trust him? That's like telling someone, "you're junkie relative says their not doing drugs, so you should trust them" without any evidence. It is a stupid statement. Your MC is actually encouraging you to rugsweep the A for the M.

He tries to reassure me during the day and I think he's trying to win back my trust.

His actions and behaviors have shown you that as soon as he believes that you trust him, he will step outside the M for attention.

He wants to move forward...and not talk about it at all.

Sure, just rugsweep, pretend it didn't happen and do the same thing the next time it happens. I mean, last time you caught him cheating it was no big deal, so why does this time matter?

I want to stay married...I love him very much, but I just don't know.

You love a lying cheater? I doubt that. You love the man he pretended to be while wooing you. You need to recognize that. YOU should be in IC. And please dump the MC.

In some aspects the MC is correct: If you want to remain married you do need to rebuild some trust. It’s not healthy for you to go through all days and all absences from him wondering what he’s doing and if he’s planning an affair. But where the MC fails is providing you both with a) the understanding that it’s to be expected trust has gone and b) the tools for BOTH of you to rebuild trust.

If your MC implied that you single-hand have to rebuild trust because your lack of trust was YOUR problem… not a good MC.

It’s good that WH reassures you all day and it’s good that he tries to win back trust. However – he counters that and shows a serious limit to what he’s willing to do by limiting your access to whatever you need.

I am so sorry you have to be here. You are being gaslighted and not seeing him completely clearly. Of course he is adametly against snooping! Read Biggers first response again. I am worried about your finances more than your heart right now. This is a short marriage still and even if you decide to stay married for now, you need to protect your finances.

I would recommend pretending like you trust him and stop telling him when you find things. Every time you do this you are teaching him to hide things better next time. And then watch very carefully.

Talk to a lawyer, and find out how you can protect your savings and home if you own them in your situation. He shouldn't be told you are doing this until you have a plan.

Snooping is NOT wrong when you have a reason for it! You snooped because he was LYING and you felt it. Your counselor is awful for telling you to back off.

Maybe read some of the other stories here on how nice cheaters are until they aren't and prepare for this possibility.

Take care.

[This message edited by Anna123 at 7:47 AM, August 11th (Tuesday)]

Welcome, Thisisthesea.

Cheaters follow patterns of behavior, and I see these clearly in your post:

but when he got to the motel to meet this person, he sat in the car for 15 min thinking about how he was messing up..and then I called him and he took that as a sign and left.

This is common cheater bullshit. It is highly unlikely that your husband would do all the prep work and not go through with the deed, especially considering the additional evidence of his cheating mindset (or evidence of actual cheating) you found on his phone (Cityxguide). If he was not at LEAST considering infidelity, he would not have had this site open on his browser (and BTW, the "game" story sounds like complete BS). This is also evidence of his lack of respect or regard for you.

His attitude and lack of remorse caused me to ask him to leave.

Typical cheater behavior. He wants to keep his marriage and his prostitutes. Not a good sign for reconciliation. Not the actions of someone who wants to change or of someone who cares about your feelings. He has some giant balls, to give YOU an attitude when HE is the problem. You did the right thing by asking him to leave.

Despite his promises and my promise not to snoop

Cheaters lie. That is who they are. Do not believe anything he says. Watch his actions. In addition, his problems with your "snooping" and his refusal to give you the phone show that he is hiding something. If he was not, giving you his phone would not be a problem. You need access to all electronics and websites at all times. He has engaged in the dishonest behaviors that have made this necessary. This is not a negotiable. Your gut is telling you something is wrong. Believe it.

After much arguing, he agreed to couples counseling and solo counseling for himself.

Again, if the man was remorseful, he would not argue. He REGRETS getting caught. There is a big difference. He needs to be proving that he DESERVES being married to you.

In counseling, he apologized and said he'd do anything to gain my trust back.

His behavior makes this statement untrue. He is not willing to do ANYTHING or he would give you access to his electronics and engage willingly in counseling. Again, evidence of the cheater mindset.

Thisisthesea, you have uncovered multiple bright read flags. I would bet that this is the same behavior that got him divorced. He has given you nothing but bullshit excuses to answer for his behavior. He wants to sweep this under the rug and continue living his life the way that he wants to. If you allow him to do this, you will continue living in the misery and chaos of infidelity.

I know I'm not blameless. I've snooped and invaded his privacy many times.

He tries to reassure me during the day and I think he's trying to win back my trust. But he will never again give me access to his phone...he says I'll misconstrue things and make a big deal about nothing.

HIS behavior has given you the right to monitor his online presence. He lost the right to privacy when he: 1. went on a NSA website, for WHATEVER stupid reason, 2. Made plans and took the resultant actions to cheat at a massage parlor, 3. engages inappropriately with other women. If he is still bleating about his "privacy" after that, you can be damned sure there is content on his phone that he does not want you to see. "A big deal about nothing"? Such incredible bullshit. None of this crap is acceptable behavior in a marriage. Period.

Do not accept any blame for any of his behavior. HE made the decision to cheat. You had nothing to do with his shitty choices.

Not only is this man actively cheating or planning to cheat, he is not financially responsible. In addition, he is screwing his KIDS over if he is not paying child support. He has a spotty employment history. Not a guy with integrity, IMHO. In fact, not a guy I would hire to work for me, much less be in a relationship with.

1. Tell him he needs to take a polygraph if he wants to stay married. His reaction to this will tell you a LOT.

2. Get STD testing. Protect yourself. He needs it too if you are going to have sex with him.

3. Check his credit report for hidden accounts/credit cards and remove him from your bank accounts, credit cards, etc. You should not have to pay for his cheating and you need to protect yourself financially.

4. Consult a divorce attorney. Learn your rights. Knowledge is power.

5. Think long and hard about whether this guy is a worthy investment for a life partner. If he is a serial cheater, he is not likely to change. The evidence is pointing this way, and his behavior towards you says that he is not interested in becoming a safe partner for you. Talk to his exes if you can.

6. If you do choose, to stay married, he will need to make some serious changes. It is a LOT of work. You will need to see actions consistently and over time. Seriously, you have been married for 2 years and he has been cheating for much of that time. Not sure if this guy is worth your energy.

Please protect your finances and do not pay this man's debts. This may be what he is after. Also I would insist that he get an STD test and show you the result and I would get one myself. Lastly I would sit him down in front of a computer and have him bring up a service like credit karma and log in. Go through his credit history and make sure you know everything he owes and how much.

You want to believe him I can tell but from here it seems like you've married a liar and a cheat. I am sorry for that. His stories make no sense. And really even if true what he is saying is that without a phone call from you he would have gone into the hotel and slept with a prostitute. That is his best story and that alone would have me heading for the exit.

I know I'm not blameless. I've snooped and invaded his privacy many times.

This right here, He has manipulated your mind to get you to believe this. My SO can look at anything of mine anytime she wants. If he wants trust then he should allow you to see anything of his at any time without delay.

Love how cheaters equate Lying, cheating, naked massages to snooping. ROLFOL

Like your snooping is somehow just as bad for the relationship as his desire to get fucked by someone else.

[This message edited by Ichthus at 9:54 AM, August 11th (Tuesday)]

Thanks for all the insightful responses....I really appreciate it.

As far as the finances go: H's back taxes were paid because his employer garnished his wages. He also paid the back child support when his ex wife threatened to take him to court. After he paid her, I took over the monthly duty of paying CS for him...with his money, not mine. His daughter is 18 now so no more CS. He was resentful of having to pay CS because he claimed his ex made a lot more money than him and she didn't need it. He said that he paid for the ex to get her masters degree and he felt slighted when she divorced him shortly afterward.

Otherwise he's kind of frugal with his money actually, but he can sure rationalize when he doesn't want to pay something. However, he has no savings to speak of and no retirement fund. He lost a lot when his business went under. He has been trying to get me to buy rental properties for him to fix up and rent out...to accumulate money for "our" retirement. I won't be getting any more financially entangled with him for the foreseeable future.

I did actually consult with an attorney after this last separation. She looked at the prenuptial agreement and wasn't impressed. She said that she wouldn't even bring it to court...so that was a waste.

Funny story: when H and I were living together before we got married, he suggested that I might want to get a prenup to protect my assets...he said he got one before his 2nd marriage to protect his business. However, when I had a prenup drawn up, he acted offended. He did sign it though..reluctantly.

Before we got married I asked him if he ever cheated on anyone before..in a relationship. He told me that he had once..on his 1st wife. He said they weren't getting along and she refused to have sex with him...she said she didn't want him and no one else would either. So to prove her wrong...he went and picked up a willing woman, had sex with her..and called his wife during to let her know that she was wrong and someone did want him! I was stunned that he did that, but I rationalized that he wasn't sneaking around..he was all out front with it.

From the beginning he would over share a lot of info on his past relationships...I wish I didn't know most of it...but he was so forthcoming that I interpreted that as someone who would tell me the truth and be open and honest.

One last bit and I need some advice regarding couples counseling:

The counselor that we had said that she was "neutral" and that our relationship was her client, not either of us. She had H acknowledge that he hurt me, apologize...but not go into any detail about what he did. Then I was advised that I needed to do my best to trust him and learn to cope with my anxiety when he's away from home.

It's like all the responsibility is on me to move past it...forgive..and trust, while he was never instructed on how to win back my trust..or even to own his actions that caused our problems in the first place.

I suggested in our last session that we make our phones accessible to each other...because if there's nothing to hide then why is he so against it. I knew H wouldn't go for it...but the counselor acted disappointed that I would even suggest it as H values his privacy so much!

Needless to say...I'm done with that counselor. And I paid for all this valuable counseling too...

Any tips on finding a more effective counselor..or tips you learned for gaining back trust after infidelity?

I am so sorry, sister, he just isn't demonstrating the qualities of a successful rebuilder. He should be crawling on broken glass to regain your trust. He is still defensive and trying to keep secrets. I am not saying he won't get there, but he is not there yet. You need to hold his ass to the line or he is just going to do it again. Remember, you can start the divorce process and stop it at any time if he decides to make the necessary changes to become a safe partner.

Fire your MC. He needs IC. And any MC should specialize in infidelity.

Your MC is doing what ours did, ie focus on what he is doing now. The problem with that is it didn’t really deal with his lying and now I will never know what is truly real.

that our relationship was her client, not either of us.

Well at least your counselor was honest with you. She was working to keep the relationship alive so she could continue to have a client. You need a counselor that specializes in Infidelity if you are going to use one at all. My opinion is that this is a waste of time as he is not being truthful to you about any of this and is not going to be truthful to a counselor either. There are many folks on here that have been in MC with a Wayward Spouse and discover it was all a waste of time because their partner was lying to the counselor the whole time.

You need to have clarity around what has been going on. I think you know but let's be honest. Your WH frequents prostitutes. That story about betting his friend is a lie. The "spur of the moment" story is a lie. This is a way of life. I'd save the counseling money and perhaps ask for a polygraph. Spend the money there to get the truth.

Also this has been asked I think but I'll ask again. Have you both had an STD test? Have you seen his result? Again, your WH sees prostitutes, he is endangering your health. Stop having sex with him until you both get tested and you have the truth about what he does.

ThisIs,

First off get a divorce he will not improve. He's an old player, likely a serial cheater, and it's just what he does. Secure your finances immediately. How nice to have a wife pay the bills so he can run around like a dog eating garbage.

The guy sounds like a non-stop liar who is practiced at gaslighting his victims, his demand for privacy is a form of concealment. Those with nothing to hide hide nothing.

Ask yourself how believable his stories about his prior two divorces are. Is he ever at fault in any of his stories about his past?

If you can speak with his ex Wives I suggest you do their fate is now your fate. I can almost her the sigh on their part when you first start to talk with them.

I would not be surprised if you thought he was the greatest most humane and decent person in the world at one time, it's an illusion these kinds of men cultivate they also move fast.

Also when you break up expect him to.....

Say he has a serious health condition he never told you about

Confess to childhood abuse which causes him to stray

Threaten suicide.....not your problem

Declare his undying and eternal love for you.

Anything to manipulate you.

Gain back trust after infidelity?

Trust but verify. That verification facilitated by the WS understanding he’s rebuilding trust, and is therefore always open about his whereabouts, his phone, computer, finances…

If your WH tells you that on Thursdays after work he plays tennis with his friends and then has dinner and a beer then he confirms that. You confirm it. Even if you know that last Thursday and the one before that and the one before that he really did play tennis. You check his bag, go over his receipts… whatever. With time your need to do this will decrease. After maybe 2-3 years of your husband always playing tennis on a Thursday you can safely assume that’s what he’s doing. You might still verify every now and then though.

I’m not clear after your last post if the financial separation is in place or not? If the last attorney dismissed the prenup I have to ask why? Who did the prenup? Isn’t that attorney liable for it’s validity?

Please – Won’t get more financially entangled with him… As a couple YOU ARE ENTANGLED. It’s IMHO more a question of clarifying things BEFORE the entanglements become knots.

Sound the sound of it Thisisthesea, this man is riding your financial coat tail. He was gas lighting you and blame shifting. How can you be the cause of his infidelity.

Tell you what, wanna see if he is remorseful and truly loves you? Ask for a Post Nuptial agreement. Not after the next time he cheats. Right NOW. That will tell you all you need to know about his motives. If he balks, you have your answer. Since its only been 1.5 yrs, consider yourself lucky. Get out, and if he changes his tunes, you can always remain together, without being married. Him going out with the intent to cheat is enough to Divorce him, and than let him if you wish try again. I think what you're going to find is that your family was probably right all along. Sometimes, when people fall in love, they do so with Rose Tinted glasses, and you throw caution to the wind. Its okay, NOW you get a do over. If you don't heed the advice here, you're setting yourself up to be used financially.

It was a whirlwind romance and I was so happy

Exactly what he was counting on. Sweep you off your feet before his real “true” self shows through.

He’s divorced twice. Hmmmmmmm I wonder why. Not the story he gave you but the truth. Did he cheat on his former wives?

Now the child support. Only a lowlife allows his child to suffer. I don’t care WHO has more $ he was ordered to pay so he pays. Except for him as he thought the laws don’t apply to him. So his XW got what was owed to her however she could.

In my line of work you can’t get contracts if company owner owes child support. So he is morally questionable.

I agree with the post nup. I told my H on dday2 after months of false Reconciliation that I wanted a post nup to even consider reconciliation. He willingly signed it.

If your H refuses to sign one - that should be a big 🚩🚩🚩

Proceed with both eyes open.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 9:47 PM, August 11th (Tuesday)]

but the counselor acted disappointed that I would even suggest it as H values his privacy so much!

Did you tell the counselor you valued a faithful husband who honored his vows over privacy? that is such a ridiculous statement by the counselor, I probably would have walked out.