SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Please share your infinite wisdom, some general signs to look for or that you found made reconciliation possible. Thank you!

We certainly can post signs but we have no way of knowing if they are truly signs of the desire to reconcile or if the cheater is just pretending to get the betrayed spouse off their back.

I lived both scenarios.

I can tell you after ddsy1 my H said he didn’t want a D. However he refused any counseling, he still blamed me for the affair and he would only do so much towards trying to make amends. At the time I kept telling myself “he is trying”.

After dday2 (and months of false reconciliation) there was a huge difference. I could see but I was not falling victim to his shenanigans again. So it took a solid year for me to really believe he wanted to R.

Second time around he blocked the OW. When she contacted him again he immediately showed me and he was shaking thinking I was going to show him the door. He did everything he could think of to show complete transparency. He would let me know exactly when he would be home (which he refused to do for 25 years). No more bars (where he met OW).

And it’s been almost 8 years since dday1 and he has not stopped doing all of these things. And he has no complaints.

So while the signs may be there - who knows if they are sincere. I will give you some pointers on red flags:

Refuses to give you passwords or access to electronic devices

Still is glued to the phone

Refuses any counseling for himself/herself (typical cheater behavior)

Blames you for the choice to cheat (you didn’t love him/her or support him/her blah blah blah)

Still pines for the AP - (affair partner) (and compares you two)

Tries to negotiate why he/she cannot remain “friends” with the AP

Still has “meetings” or unexplained absences

Things take 2X as long like a trip to the grocery store

Refuses to give you acces to phone bills or social media etc

I hope this helps you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:42 AM, May 17th (Monday)]

In 1964, Justice Stewart was trying to figure out how to legally define "obscenity" so that it could be accurately labeled in motion picture ratings. He famously said (paraphrasing) "I don't how to define it, but I know it when I see it". Trying to sort out the mess of misinformation in a WS's head and heart can be a little like that. As noted above, WS's will typically lie (to themselves before they even get to you) in order to protect themselves from feeling worse about themselves than they already do. Since words don't matter, actions are your best indicator.

I am a WS in year 5 of R. I don't think there is a way to tell if a WS is "ready" for R, but I think the appropriate question is if they are "capable" of R. In order to be capable of R, the WS is going to have to do a lot of hard work on themselves. They need to figure out why they allowed themselves to make the choices they did. They have to figure out what about themselves brought them to a point of lacking so much self-respect, integrity and empathy that they were willing to kick their spouse to the curb, throw their own dignity out the window, destroy the lives of those around them and how they devolved into the liars and betrayers they became. In short, they need to become "safer" people, safer to both their spouses and themselves. The general wisdom on SI says that it takes 2-5 years of work, both independently and together, to even get to a point where enough healing has been able to take place to where R can really begin. And that's assuming the work that needed to be done, was done in that time.

Here are a few things to watch for:

* Does your WS express empathy for you at all? Can they respond to your hurt feelings with care and understanding, or do they get defensive and selfish instead?

* Are they able to be sacrificial? That is, can they put your needs before/above their own? For example, if you ask for time apart, do they say, "Ok, whatever you need" or do they get angry and blame you for punishing them?

* Can they "own" who they are and what they did? When you bring up the affair, do they discuss it with you and ask about your feelings? Or do they devolve into shame, defiance and denial?

* Are they doing the work? Are they going to IC/MC, support groups, SI, anything at all? When they do, do you see changes, do they express revelations about their progress? Or do they refuse to make the effort to change?

* Are they genuine? Are they doing this work because they love you and respect themselves and want better in their lives? Or are they just scared of being alone or unable to live without praise from another?

It took me several years to get "out of the fog" and back to a point where empathy could return. During the first few years, I just couldn't get there. I remained defensive, pointed blame at my spouse instead, devolved into a shame spiral, and in general, made things worse for my wife simply by being incapable of seeing anyone else's pain or lives other than my own. To her, my wayward thinking made it feel as if the affair was still occurring emotionally. I could not "see her" and so she did not feel she mattered at all to me. We were "in R" but I wasn't really capable of it at the time. I was saying the right things, and even doing some right things, but at the end of the day, they still felt saccharine to her because I was doing them from a standpoint of my own desperation. I lacked the actual empathy and self-respect, and that, you cannot fake. When my wife started to see someone who could see themselves, and see her back, then things changed. She knew it when she saw it. Until that happened, she chose to "detach" and 180 and take care of herself, which is what she needed to do in order to protect herself while I figured my own shit out.

I am not a BS so I will not offer too much advice in that department other than this... you are early in this process. You don't have to make any R or D decisions right now (unless you want to). You can wait, and watch, and heal on your own time and terms, and see how things progress, for both of you. Who knows, your WS might do "everything right" and change to become the warmest, genuine and safe person ever... that still might not be enough to enable you to want to repair the relationship. You have to figure out what is right for you, what you need, what you want, and what you are willing to do, or not do, to get there. Rather than R or D, choose to just get through today intact, and then re-evaluate tomorrow. Rinse and repeat. So heal yourself first. Then worry about the relationship.

Reconciliation only became possible when I finally let go of the outcome and asked for D. I had been holding in a number of negative feelings, partially because my fWW would make me feel bad for bringing them up. This was a useless and painful cycle. When I gave up, I absolutely unloaded all of my negative feelings and I made my needs for R that she wasn't meeting perfectly clear. She had to do the heavy lifting and find a path back to R. She had to figure out how to rebuild trust and show remorse. Finally, she was putting in effort, and I was honestly telling her if it wasn't enough.

"I don't how to define it, but I know it when I see it".

DaddyDom speaks great truth here. I can give you my perspective on my wife, but every WS is unique.

It has taken my wife roughly 4 years to be at the point where she is "ready" to reconcile. There were times when I thought she was ready...but she wasn't. There were times when SHE thought she was ready...but she wasn't.

Ultimately, it took her hearing from me that I had no doubts that she would throw me and the kids away again if given the opportunity to actually Jumpstart her recognition that she needed to go back to IC. From there, it took about 6 months for her to say she was interested in being back in MC. In the 3 months or so of MC thus far, I have seen enough difference in her actions a majority of the time to say that she is ready to truly attempt the reconciliation path.

But notice all the qualifiers in those statements. Try. Attempt. Enough.

From my perspective, my wife is less quick to defend herself or to throw things back on me (yes, but you...). That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, it just happens infrequently rather than instinctively.

She still doesn't like to address things that are uncomfortable (such as double-standards, a clear lack of grace, starting with a "fighting spirit" rather than a partnership, etc.), but she is learning how to sit with the "I'm REALLY not perfect" aspects of her life. She is getting better.

She is far from a prototypical "reconcilable" WS. Ask any of the veterans here. They thought she was a lost cause and could read it in my posts. It took her being slapped with a reality that she didn't think existed (my belief in a future betrayal) to see that there really were issues in her life.

As it is said by many, this is a singular circumstance. Your mileage may vary when considering your specific partner in your specific relationship. It's unique for you just like it is for everyone else.

Perhaps it’s easier to describe the things that make them NOT reconciliation material.

Hands down, number one- DEFENSIVENESS AND EXCUSES/ blameshifting (“I did this because you did that”).

Thank you that was so helpful. My other question is the aftermath of full exposure. My family will not forgive him, his family is huge and they all know about his leaving me for another woman. All my neighbors know. All of our friends personal and mutual, his coworkers and mine. There is alot of judgement and it's easy for people to say they would never take someone back if that person cheated on them. You have to live through it to really get it. I just find the judgement of others who are still very angry with him and who are warning me not to take him back to be heavy to deal with. I am taking it really slow, will give it a year before I decide what to do. It's my life and its nobody's business but I wonder how others dealt with this and with announcing that you were working on reconciling. Did you keep it private.

If you have to ask, they're not ready to reconcile.

True remorse is obvious. It's self-directed. It's your WS putting an app on their phone to share their location with you, without you asking. It's reading the books (Not Just Friends, How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair, etc.) without you nagging them.

There's a glaring difference between a WS who is just trying to do the bare minimum to save their ass and placate their BS ("I bought that book you asked me to!") and a WS that recognizes you're in pain, they caused it, and they need to go above and beyond to make you feel safe again.

TNT. This is a very good question about reconciling with the cheater. The emotional pain that others witnessed doesn’t seem to dissipate quickly. People don’t forget.

Here is the issue. People will judge you. They will never understand your choice to Reconcile— especially if you don’t have children. Especially if they have not been a betrayed spouse.

So you need to understand that it takes time to heal. Some family members will accept your H back into the family as if nothing happened and others may merely be polite. You just have to accept it.

You have to be able to understand some people will never agree or understand your decision. And you may lose some people along the way (friends and family) who draw a hard line. Please know that it is on them to change — not you. They need to want to have or resume a relationship with either just you or with both of you.

Nothing more you can do.

You have to live through it to really get it. I just find the judgement of others who are still very angry with him and who are warning me not to take him back to be heavy to deal with. I am taking it really slow, will give it a year before I decide what to do.

It is hard to take the judgement of others on top of the pain of deciding to R or end it. It is like being blamed for being cheated on. As much as others input is likely fueled by their own projections and knee jerk judgement, please still take into consideration that the underlying reasons for the judgment is significantly based in reality. Hang around a while and you will see that most, not all, but most cheaters rarely come to R as honest, sincere, remorseful, empathetic, safe partners. Most, not all, cheaters are for some time filled with rugsweeping, blameshifting, pretend remorse, pushers for moving on, limited in empathy. These are unfortunate but very real truths and maybe some of those hard to hear criticisms project from their past experiences and a hope that you too will not suffer through the same trauma of trickle truths, false remorse, phony empathy, gaslighting etc.

So, take what others say with a grain of salt, while also accepting as fact that many, not all, cheaters take a very long time - if ever - to become a safe, honest, transparent, remorseful, empathetic partner. The good and positive thing is, you have decided to take your time in deciding the best course for you.

Sorry you had to find yourself here.

1) Truth/honesty - does your Ws tell the truth or does your WS shade it or just plain lie?

R requires honesty - any limit on honesty makes R impossible, IMO.

2) Is your WS committed to changing from cheater to good partner to benefit the WS, or is the WS changing in the expectation that the BS will choose R.

I'd want a WS who will do the work of changing whether I'm in or out of R.