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Wayward Side :
BS's....Fight Back!

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BrokenRoad ( member #15334) posted at 3:42 AM on Friday, June 11th, 2010

What pushed me off the fence and out of the fog was that my BS was willing to fight.

Good conversation, Florida.

And thankyou to WH5 for fighing for us.

{Him}FBH - 51 (WifeHad5){Me} FWW - 52 2 kids: 16 & 21 Reconciled :)*Learning is a gift. Even when pain is your teacher.*

posts: 12886   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2007   ·   location: Midwest
id 4633193
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lonely2009 ( member #26370) posted at 3:46 AM on Friday, June 11th, 2010

My husband thanked me for being the one to see through the bull and "fight" for what I wanted.

i am not pathetic or a loser.

I am a fabulous, wonderful, caring woman and he is damn luck to have me.

BS- Me -young at heart
FWH- AARP Eligible
M - Over a quarter of a century
DDay - 9-14-09
R - going full steam ahead

posts: 403   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2009   ·   location: West Coast
id 4633199
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SourCherryDrops ( member #25883) posted at 11:05 AM on Friday, June 11th, 2010

I'm not talking about situations where the A has already ended, the FWS wants to R and is making an honest effort to correct the wrongs he has inflicted on his BS. The core of my argument is that it is imho wrong to egg on the BS whose WS is still in the process of pursuing the OP, to take active steps to win the WS back.

Ah, then actually i agree in large part with what you are saying.

Personally I wouldnt call people that do do this pathetic, because when we hear the word pathetic the most common definition we associate with it is 'contemptibly inadequate' and less the alternative definition of 'deserving of pity'.

IMHO it IS a bad choice to chase after a WS that is still in an A, to try and compete with their AP, to become a doormat and allow them to continue their behaviour. I hope that i would allways encourage as best i could BS's that are in this position to stop, look at what they need, to concentrate on themselves, to set strong personal boundaries, and to follow through on them.

I would aslo counsel against becomiing entangled with the OP in some attempt to make their life miserable, I personally chose not to expose my FWW's A's to everyone, But we did expose it to some. My decision was bassed on the reason you gave, I didnt want people who havent BTDT giving me advice, making comments, or thinking that i am pathetic in some way... It is sad that people do this, and i know it shouldnt affect me, but although i do have hard skin, its not that hard.

suddenly people have decided that I said that everyone who chooses to R is pathetic. I NEVER said that. I've had that problem with assorted other threads on this board - I express an opinion about one specific aspect of something and it gets twisted into my being 100% for or against the whole thing.

Its an unfortunate fact of human nature that when we feel personally attacked, we either become defensive, or attack back, either way often the details, or the contingencies in the original message are overlooked.

I am sorry if I miss-understood what you were saying, I allways try to understand what someone is saying, i also try to read between the lines and identify the underlying belief that is central to the message. I definately did not believe that you felt that everyone who attempts R is pathetic, but i did think you felt that those that chassed after their WS even after the A's had ended were... I see by your calrification that that is not the case, and other than the use of the term pathetic i think we are actually mostly in agreement about what actions the BS should take.

I said before i dont like the term fighting for the M... I prefered championing for yourself... making yourself stronger, if eventually the WS wants to recommit to the M and the BS is willing to offer R, then a stronger more selfassured BS can only be good for the M, (a healthy M that is) that is whay i believe standing up for yourself, reataining your self dignity, can in a circumspect way be considered fighting for the M.

your use of the word sugar has helped me come up with a metaphor for th preference thing... That id like to share, perhapes give people a chance to pick holes on my metaphor

Id liken it to candy... now me, I prefer gumdrops, most of the time I choose to eat them. However ocasionally ill try out some toffee's, or some licorice, maybe even some hard boiled candy. But even if ive got a bag of licorice in my hand, if you ask me what type of candy i prefer id say gumdrops.... 'but your eating licorice' you say... to which i respond 'I was bored of gumdrops and just fancied a change'. Yes in that particular instance in time i didnt want gumdrops, i wanted something different and it was mostly just chance that i grabbed licorice, it could have just as easy been toffee or hard boiled sweets.

My mom, (now she had a real sweet tooth), Most of the time she liked peppermints, but she would get phases where she would stop eating them and just eat chocolates, or gumdrops, or toffee... she allways went back to peppermints when she got bored with her latest thing, but if you asked her what she prefered, she would answer with whatever she was currently into. Mostly the answer would be peppermints but sometime chocolates, or somthing else.

My grandfather, now he could never really sort himself out. he really only ever wanted to have licourice allsorts, or toffees, he didnt really eat any other sort of candy at all. If you asked him what sort of candy he prefered, he would have said licourice allsorts and toffee's ...if pressed to make an actual choice, he couldnt, he liked them both, equally.

Then there is my sister, she only ever eats salt licorice, occasionally someone will try to convince her to try one of their candies, ocasionally she will give in and try it, spit it out and say yuk... ask her what she prefers, and the answer is clear, salt licorice, even as she is putting the new sweet into her mouth she knows that she prefers salt licorice, she even knows that she probably wont like it and its a mistake to even try it... but ocasionally someone is convincing enough to make her try it.

I would liken me to the situation with me and my FWW, my Mom to where a WS, withdraws all sexual activity from their BS, and focuses on the AP, MY grandfather to those dealing with a LTA... and my sister to something like the situation that you described with your H.... there may be a fifth, where the WS leaves and starts a relationship with the AP... but ive already gone on for long enough about candy.... any more and ill need to head to the kiosk for some sugar therapy.

But that is how i define preference and how it relates to various different Infidelity scenarios, Perhapes we are arguing semantics on this, but i would think it is incredibly soul destroying to have to deal with believing that your WS really did prefer someone else, and those BS's in that situation have my deepest sympathy. And my absolute admiration if they are still able to offer the gift of R.

Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

posts: 1468   ·   registered: Oct. 19th, 2009   ·   location: Europe
id 4633523
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icbtih8 ( member #23797) posted at 1:43 PM on Friday, June 11th, 2010

But SCD, FM original post was to encourage BS to fight for their M and their foggy WS who is still in the A. That's why a couple of us have said "hell no." I thought FM's post was to encourage BS with foggy WS who want the M to not take abusive behaviors by the WS.

Personally, I don't think that once the WS defogs, there is a "fight" -maybe other than an internal fight. It should be more of a collaborative effort for the M.

Fight for yourself? I don't think any of us disserters are saying the BS should stay a blubbering puddle on the bathroom floor.

I agree with most everything said by skylers mom. I don't think a BS who fights for a foggy WS loses their self respect, though. I think there are situations where the BS feels it's beneficial to fight for a foggy WS. I just don't think my situation would have been one of those - had WH remained foggy.

[This message edited by icbtih8 at 7:50 AM, June 11th (Friday)]

D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue

posts: 5424   ·   registered: Apr. 29th, 2009
id 4633664
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SourCherryDrops ( member #25883) posted at 10:39 PM on Friday, June 11th, 2010

FM original post was to encourage BS to fight for their M and their foggy WS who is still in the A

I dont really want to get into defending FM's first post cause when i first read it my initial reaction was to disagree as well... it was only when i read his later calrifications that i think i understand what he was really trying to say.

I don't think any of us disserters are saying the BS should stay a blubbering puddle on the bathroom floor.

No i dont think that either, rather as i understand it the message is 'hell no im not going to fight to save my M.. instead im going to stand up for my self, im going to get strong, set boundaries, not let my WS gaslight me, Im going to keep my own dignity intact.'

actually if im not mistaken it sort of sounds like.

You must keep your composure or they will pull you into their fantasy and make it your reality also.

Do not beg or let them confuse you with their fog babble.

Do not bargain. Lay down your boundaries and if your boundaries are crossed, lay out and play out the consequence.

Do what it takes to heal yourself and move on as best you can.

I honestly believe that we are pretty much meaning the same thing with what we are saying, just that we are using different words.

Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

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StillGoing ( member #28571) posted at 12:26 AM on Saturday, June 12th, 2010

IMHO it IS a bad choice to chase after a WS that is still in an A, to try and compete with their AP, to become a doormat and allow them to continue their behaviour. I hope that i would allways encourage as best i could BS's that are in this position to stop, look at what they need, to concentrate on themselves, to set strong personal boundaries, and to follow through on them.

That is essentially what I read in the original post. To chase, scramble and fight like hell to win your WS back, knowingly engaging in conflict with the foggy WS and AP.

eta:

I don't mean to say that and dismiss the encouraging parts of the post. Kind words and thoughtful intent are always good. Nobody here is weak.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 6:40 PM, June 11th (Friday)]

Tempus Fuckit.

- Ricky

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id 4634938
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 floridaredman (original poster member #15122) posted at 1:27 AM on Saturday, June 12th, 2010

I didnt want people who havent BTDT giving me advice, making comments, or thinking that i am pathetic in some way... It is sad that people do this, and i know it shouldnt affect me, but although i do have hard skin, its not that hard.

Do not assume I haven't BTDT, I came here as a WS..but that doesn't mean I haven't been betrayed. And I'm not just talking about my profile either.

" floridaredman, it's good to have you here"...DeeplyScared
Sleep Peacefully

posts: 2906   ·   registered: Jun. 25th, 2007   ·   location: Florida
id 4635030
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lost_in_toronto ( member #25395) posted at 2:39 AM on Saturday, June 12th, 2010

FRD, I don't think SCD meant you at all when he wrote that. I think he was referring to the people in our lives who have never experienced infidelity or betrayal - from either side - who have strong opinions about what a BS or a WS should do after an A.

(((Floridaredman))) I think we all know that you had the very best of intentions when you started this thread. The discussion has gotten a little heated...and maybe a little off track. But thank you, again, for being here. I can only imagine how difficult that is as a FWS.

Me: BS/48
Him: WS/46
DDay: August 23, 2009
Together 23 years.
Reconciled.

posts: 1806   ·   registered: Sep. 2nd, 2009   ·   location: not toronto anymore
id 4635146
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 floridaredman (original poster member #15122) posted at 1:09 PM on Saturday, June 12th, 2010

Thank you lost_in_toronto,

My apologies for the misinterpretation SCD.

" floridaredman, it's good to have you here"...DeeplyScared
Sleep Peacefully

posts: 2906   ·   registered: Jun. 25th, 2007   ·   location: Florida
id 4635519
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Rise And Shine ( member #27513) posted at 3:44 PM on Saturday, June 12th, 2010

(((FloridaredMan)))

I think I get your OP and I think I agree with you.

There are so many stories of BS's who want to save their M...try to save their M, but have a hard time doing some of the things that needs to be done.

Of course, it's completely understandable.

It's like the BS was slipped a hit of acid and transformed into Alice and thrown into Wonderland. While in Wonderland, if they want to save their marriage, they have to become James Bond, the army, navy, air force and parole officer...while attending the Mad Hatter's tea party...

An A is a mind-altering drug not just for the WS. The enormity of the task at hand for a BS who can barely recognize up from down is profound...And yeah, there's a fair amount of humiliation a BS experiences so it's no wonder that there's some resistance to the original post.

But, a BS that wants to save their M has to fight back. I've been following the situation of an SI BS 'warrior' and I think that they're a very good example of what FM is talking about.

April 25, 2009

posts: 3263   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2010
id 4635633
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CookiesAZ ( member #20897) posted at 6:03 PM on Sunday, June 13th, 2010

I was talking to my BH about this post the other day. He said he wasn't fighting for me per say, he was fighting for me to wake up and smell the coffee. Like he said, if I wanted to go, go, if I wanted to stay, stay.

He couldn't/wouldn't stop me from leaving, but he did fight me on my feelings right after d-day. He said he cares about me and didn't want to see me make a HUGE mistake. So, yes, my BS did fight for me to start seeing things for what they really were.

me FWW-40's
him BS-41
M-8 yrs.(together 10 yrs.)
1 dog (my baby) no children
DDay-7-25-08
Came home after 7 weeks, and in R since-7-28-08.

posts: 1004   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2008   ·   location: Arizona
id 4637157
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