SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

@SourCherryDrops: Infidelity and its dynamic is not like the dating he likes her she like the otherguy dynamic in HS Drama's... IMHO its a poor metaphor, because it doesnt provide any real insight into our situations.

@SkylersMom: I can see how with multiple OPs my HS drama metaphor doesn't really apply. It very much applied to mine and everyone else's whose WS is not a serial (mine never cheated on any previous GFs) and only had one OW.

I just wanted to chime in with agreement with SourCherryDrops on this one. I have been with my partner for nine years; he had a two month affair. Yes, he obviously did "prefer" the OW for that period, if you want to put it that way. I actually think if there was anything that he was putting ahead of me at that time it was himself, but I get what you're saying SkylersMom. He did actively choose to betray me, and with the OW, so in some sense he preferred her. However, likening it to a highschool drama really demeans and belittles the situation I think. In high school, relationship drama just doesn't have the same stakes (most of the time, anyway), and my relationship with my WS and the situation we have been in has far more depth than a high school drama. I just don't think the metaphor is very useful.

Yes, in many ways I fought for this relationship after dday. At the same time, I became my own "protaganist" (I love that, SCD!) and started grad school, went to therapy, etc...I'm glad I didn't have to deal directly with the OW, that NC was established fairly quickly after dday, and that I didn't need to expose the A to his family.

There were still some moments that I suppose an outsider would see as pathetic. But I am weighing my actions during this horrible experience against nine years of history with this man. Against an entire life that we built together. Not a high school romance.

In the end, I guess we can only do as much as we can do. I mean that there must always be some limit to what a BS will do when a WS is engaging in destructive behaviour. But I also think that like the definition of "fight" that so many here are having a problem with, "dignity" and "pathetic" are words that can only be defined by the person living inside a unique situation.

Floridaredman - I wanted to say that I appreciate the spirit in which you wrote this post. I get that as a FWS, who has sat in the middle of the fog, you were trying to put forth encouragement to BSs standing outside it.

i agree with broken. every situation is unique.

i read some BS say their WS were great for the first 20-odd years of marriage and they are not going to let a short period of f*cked up mentality to destroy the years of marriage. perhaps if that was my situation, i would feel fighting back was worth it.

or even if i felt i had a commitment to my vows, i would fight because i said for better or worse. WH cheated on me before marriage so i feel i said my vows under false pretenses - i believe (and my priest believes) my vows are voidable and i could get an annulment.

but for me, in my situation, i would feel that doing the things FM posted in his first post would be losing myself and my dignity.

100% agree

Floridaredman - I wanted to say that I appreciate the spirit in which you wrote this post. I get that as a FWS, who has sat in the middle of the fog, you were trying to put forth encouragement to BSs standing outside it.

100% agree

"dignity" and "pathetic" are words that can only be defined by the person living inside a unique situation.

"Sigh"

I really opened up a can of radioactive worms here.

I want to say that I was not trying to insult anyone or raise anyone's ire.

As a FWS I realize my position to some BS's and that I represent someone who stood in a position that caused pain.

Thank you to those who have posted and got something from what I was trying to relay. I am in a marriage too and I had to fight for it..as I should have because I was the one who did tremendous damage

For those insulted or offended I offer my apologies to you for what it's worth.

lost_in_toronto...thank you.

floridaman...

You don't need to apologize...you did nothing wrong and furthermore, this is your forum

We mods have been watching this thread and specifically didn't step in because it is a good conversation with some and calculating in how gracious *your* responses have been

Thank you Deeply Scared

As a FWS I realize my position to some BS's and that I represent someone who stood in a position that caused pain.

You're welcome, floridaredman. I think - precisely because of what you wrote above - that the encouragment you offered was really important. I think that FWSs that post on SI are really brave, especially when they address the BSs. It can't be easy, seeing the pain that we are in, and yet you come here and look it and yourself in the face. Brave. So thank you, because the advice of FWSs has been such an important part of my experience on SI.

floridaredman I'm a BS and I wish your post had been available to me when I first found out about my H's A. Actually, even before that. When I suspected but was too scared to know the truth. I was scared because I had no idea how I should react if it were true.

Your post would have given me strength and direction.

My H had a mlc A. We both knew what it was but not how to deal with it. He was deep in the fog on Dday and wouldn't agree to NC. In a fearfilled way I insisted he leave our home for as long as he chose to keep seeing her. I was terrified that I was sending him to her and possibly ending our marriage by doing so. If I had your words to read over and over I would have drawn a great deal of strength from them.

I would have chosen not to let him get away with so much disrespect and dishonesty in the months before Dday.

I would have taken heart in reading the words of someone who had been there and knew what he was talking about.

Speaking purely from my own experience as a BS I understand and applaud your post.

I was always a person who made it clear that infidelity would be a deal breaker however, we were in our 22nd year of marriage and I thought that was worth working for. I was torn between what I felt I wanted (to R) and what I thought I should do (D).

A post such as yours would have helped me give myself permission to fight for my marriage without the guilt I felt for supposedly betraying myself.

tts

I just want to add that I haven't read the entire thread before replying because I chose not to get caught up in the posts of others but wanted to respond from my own point of view.

Are you saying that those BS's who fought for their marriage compromised their dignity, even if the marriage survived? Just curious

If they fought by actively making the A unpalatable to their WS and OP (exposing, scheming in any way), by doing the 180 with the sole purpose of making the WS "miss" them or by changing themselves so that the WS would "like" them better (horror of horrors, to compete with the OP ) then unfortunately yes - even if the BS ultimately "won" they have compromised their dignity in the worst way, imho. And I include myself there, even though I haven't done any of it (for other reasons, too long and nitpicky to go into here).

Incidentally, based on the story you included in your profile, your WW has done a lot to preserve herself in that respect - it doesn't sound like she invested much energy into getting you back after you left her for the OW. She just let you ride the whole thing out as long as it could, and then merely accepted you back and gave you a chance (hopefully just one ;-) to make amends when you returned with your tail between your legs after the A crashed and burned on its own. And you seem to understand that the work that now needs to be done is primarily your responsibility, since you are the one who drove the M into the ditch. That's not the worst place to be in on a "preservation of dignity scale", provided that you don't screw up the little things, like my H did. I wish you the best. Even though I don't agree with everything you say, I do appreciate the good intentions behind it.

[This message edited by skylers_mom at 11:27 AM, June 8th (Tuesday)]

As a member

even if the BS ultimately "won" they have compromised their dignity in the worst way

Don't ever include my husband in such an insulting way. He didn't compromise *anything* by reconciling with me. In fact he's a better person than anyone I know.

As a moderator.

Keep the throw up icons out of this forum.

skyler's_mom,

Respectfully,

My wife endured shame for taking me back. Her friends told her she was crazy, but she put that all on the line for me.

I was over 2000 miles away and on the road. She couldn't "fight" for me because I was gone.

There are things I don't mention here, but there were things in our marriage that drove us both apart..I take full responsibility for the affair of course. We had both hurt each other so much that being apart "seemed" to be a good thing at the time.

My wife took a chance on her dignity and me. I look to uphold her dignity by not failing her.

ETA.....Thank you for your comments, they made me see other perspectives also

[This message edited by floridaredman at 12:03 PM, June 8th (Tuesday)]

Actually I'm quite insulted by Skyler's mom's posts.

I fought damn hard for my 24yr M. I dont think I have ANYTHING to be ashamed of. Ask my H and he will tell you the same and thank me for WAKING his stupid ass up!!!! When he was in the A he was not himself. It had nothing to do with the OW it was the draw of the fantasy. She acted like he was a GOD and could do no wrong. He became addicted to that. I had to wake him up to reality. There is NO reality in Affair land. He now sees that OW is not even the person he thought she was. That she was playing him even more than he was playing her.

I have been with my H for over 25yrs. Of those 25yrs this was the first fuck up. Why the hell should I destroy what is mine? I came from a divorced family and when I made my vows at 18 I meant them. For better or WORSE. Of course I wouldnt stand around and let him cheat on me I'm NOT a doormat but I'm certainly not going to hand over the love of my life without a fight.

I for one am glad I fought. As a family (since my kids knew) we have fought together and STUCK together. We are UNITED.

Sorry for the rant. It just upsets me when I hear that drivel. Thanks for the post Florida man. Also thank you to all the brave FWS's who post on SI. I cant tell you how much you helped me to understand where my H was at the time. Without that I dont think I would've been able to fight so hard. I quess without understanding the mindset during an A I would not have known my M was worth fighting for. Thank you

by changing themselves so that the WS would "like" them better (horror of horrors, to compete with the OP)

In any relationship, there are things that both partners can do to make themselves "better," and not so that their partner will '"like" them better" but because as human beings, we can always work to become better expressions of ourselves. I made changes after dday, but not because I wanted to compete with the OW - what I wanted was to do whatever I could to be a better person, and to strengthen the relationship that I am in. My WS made changes, too - not so that I would stay with him, but to make sure that he never damaged his own integrity to such an extent again.

even if the BS ultimately "won" they have compromised their dignity in the worst way

Well, like I said before I think that dignity is best defined by the person living inside their own life. Letting others define our own sense of self worth, dignity, etc. is depending too much on external validation. And like Jewel, I think its offensive to declare that all of us BSs who have worked hard to reconcile with our WSs have in some way compromised our dignity. I feel like through all of the fallout from my WSs affair, the one thing that I've held on to is my dignity - in my refusal to let this crap change my behaviour, my beliefs, and my heart. I don't feel undignified at all.

[This message edited by lost_in_toronto at 12:20 PM, June 8th (Tuesday)]

Thank you jewel123. I appreciate your post.

I hope you and your husband have many many more years of happiness.

(((floridaredman)))

Your welcome.

I hope that you and your wife also have many more years of happiness.

I for one am looking forward to this adventure we call life with my man by my side.

As a BS I did fight hard for my 20 yr relationship (18 yrs M)....it wasn't enough...he had made up his mind he had to go meet this woman he had "fallen in love with" on the internet and nothing I could say, do, or hope for would change that....he walked away from me, the house, the kids, everything we had worked hard to build for what???....a chance to meet her....it didn't even work out for them..(she went back to her H)...but he had done enough damage that there was no going back...that was my ulitmatum..."go meet her and I'm DONE!"....didn't matter...he went...even came back here when it didn't work out...but not to me or the kids, or the M....

Sometimes there just isn't enough fight to succeed.....

movingforward777,

That is very tragic and I am sorry you went through that.I know that it must be very hard to go on every day with that having happened in your life.

May you continue to find the strength to keep moving forward.

I'm a fighter and so is my H.

We also both maintained dignity.

I do think that in order to fight for someone, they have to want to be 'fighted for'. In other words, they have to want the fight equally, both keeping their eye on the prize.

Everyone has limits. Everyone can only fight for so long before they get tired if it's going no where.

The only issue I had with what you've written is that a BS should automatically fight. That is a hard thing to do when you've been trampled on by the person you love most in the world. Finding the energy to fight in this manner takes strength that many BS's don't have for a long time.

I know for me it took me a long time to get the gloves on and get into 'fight' mode. I'm thankful we both did fight...but we both needed to be ready for battle too.

floridaredman

My WH has said many times I should have "knocked him up against the wall" when I first suspected. I still didn't think he was in a full blown A. After the first debacle 9 years earlier (a short EA w/ a totally whacko co-worker) I was in a BS fog of thinking no way, my H would never do this again. Some WS's are just too good at gaslighting so we BS's don't even know what we are fighting for! Anyway I was in the fight for my M right after D-day. But months later I am just fighting for myself and my much deserved peace & sanity. I am tired. And frankly I think it's up to my WH to start fighting to keep me. I'm putting my sword down.