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PanicAttack53:

I know you've heard this over and over from other SI'ers, but it's imperative now for you to buckle up and begin to take care of YOU. I don't want this to sound harsh but please for your own health and overall well being, you need to curtail any more thoughts about trying to save things with WW. You need to completely detach from her my friend and go total NC. The first line in the 180 reads [italics]"Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore."[/italics] That is even more valid now than it was before your face to face meeting with WW.

I know you're right. It's really hard. It's four weeks now, and I miss her terribly. It's still a shock, and still hard to believe. We've spent maybe four hours in each other's company since the night she left. But the "Don't pursue reason" thing... I haven't been good about that, but I really need to listen to it.

BTW, going NC and adhering to that line in the 180 has nothing to do with teaching your WW a lesson, winning her back etc.. Without sounding redundant, it has NOTHING to do with her at all. It is specifically meant for YOUR benefit to help you detach and move on with your life without her. You must admit to yourself that you have no control over WW, "H" or the fantasy bubble they're in. The only thing you can control now is YOU and your well being my friend! If someday your WW finds a way to fix what's broken in herself and offers to come back, [italics]then[/italics] you can decide on your own terms if that is what you really want. Again, that is totally up to her. You can't chase or control it so for now, you must find a way to detach and move on.

Detaching is the hardest part, I think. Maybe it's good that the last two times I saw her, I kind of wanted her to take a hike -- she was pissing me off that much. And recently I cooked broccoli, which I haven't been able to do for years, since it has a terrible effect on her stomach, and I thought, "Well, that's one of the things I'll be able to do, now that she's gone." So I'm hoping that's a good sign.

Smoke, I am in the same situation as you right now, albeit a little further along (my WW left on 9/27/12 and I filed for D on 10/27/12). I also have a son (22) currently living with me. My son, like yours was angry, hurt and confused when WW first left. Not so much by what she did (i.e. her A) but because he felt abandoned by her when she left. He went though any number of emotions including an ill advised rant on a social networking site where he posted that WW was in essence dead to him. I was lucky and got proactive in getting him into counseling right away to address those feelings. While he and his mother are not 100% yet, they have reconnected somewhat and he now realizes that what WW & I are going though is not about him and that she is still his mom and always will be.

I *think* our son knows -- at least rationally -- that it's not about him. Certainly, on 12/10, when this all came down, I told him as much. However, my wife later said -- not in these words, but in essence -- that she' s disappointed that he hasn't taken any responsibility regarding work or college since he graduated, and that this is a big deal to her. After that, while she was in the john, he wrote a note, threw it on the table, and walked out (albeit for only a few minutes). The note said, "You say this isn't my fault, but now you're citing me as one of the reasons."

From your posts I know how much you love your son and how much you are concerned for him. I only state the above as an example that young people are way more perceptive & resilient than we sometimes give them credit for. Please try and give him enough space as a young adult to allow him to process all this in his own way. I think you'll be amazed & proud of how he handles it all in the long run.

God, I hope you're right. I don't mean to push him into therapy, but I've told him, "This is too big for you to handle on your own. It's too big for *me* to handle on my own." I mean, he was a *wreck* yesterday (and on Christmas), and it's very hard to watch.

Wishing you the best my friend and always remember that you are not alone in this. We ARE here for you.

Thanks so much. I have to say, since my wife isn't all that computer-literate, I'm not sure it would have occurred to her to look for a community like this, and if the situation were reversed, I'm not sure she'd find anything like this kind of support.

crazynot:

Smoky, just to add that as far as therapy is concerned, and its potential in reaching a state of happiness, I note and identify with what you say about it not having worked for you in the past, and what is necessary for it to work. I was never a 'happy' person before now - I had a big bad thing happen (not abuse) in childhood that affected me. I suffered from depressive/panic episodes that affected those around me.

My diagnosis is major depression and dysthymia. I think general anxiety disorder has been thrown in there somewhere. I've been depressed, to some extent, for as long as I remember. I figure this is just how I'm wired -- I really had to kind of talk my mom off the ledge some time ago, because she was worried about how she and my dad may have screwed me up. I figure that even if they did (and I'm not saying as much), I don't hold them responsible for my depression, and I don't have any problems with them now.

It was feeling as bad as it's possible to feel, after the affair was discovered, that made me realise I needed medical/psych support. And all of that led me to a place where I felt better than I ever did, even though 'he' had left and was never coming back. It's been an odd time, but all in all I would not have things any other way.

The older sister of a longtime friend was telling me on Christmas Eve about her marital situation -- basically, her bipolar hubby of 23 years fell in love with his piano teacher and hoped that his wife would happily act as Plan B in case the teacher blew him off. Said she's been in therapy with a wonderful, helpful therapist... for *nine years*. Yeesh. Also that she didn't date for over five years, once the hubby left. This sounds like a ball. But hey, if that's what it takes to heal....

For you, this is very fresh, and the feelings are as intense as hell. I'd urge you to seek help in dealing with the agony, but also send a beacon of hope - this feeling is as bad as it gets, and some day it will stop, but you have to let it.

This is what I'm hoping. I've seen my new therapist three times -- though not again until the 14th, I think. The latest episode with my wife came a couple days after my last session, so I haven't told her (the therapist) about it. Meanwhile, she's trying to get me working on why my sleep is so awful.

This is why those whose spouses do not leave, but continue to disrespect and cheat in secret, have the worst deal of all.

I would have to think so. In that respect, leaving me is my wife's way of being "kind" or something.

simplePete:

Smoky, i just caught your thread, and i'm amazed at the horrid tale you've told. this is totally INSANE!

i really don't see how you can hang on to hope when it's clear as day-- your wife has [italics]CHECKED-OUT![/italics]

Yeah... "off the deep end" is how a couple of friends have put it. As I mentioned, my wife said Friday night that she her own family knows "a little" about what's going on, which -- along with the fact that (unlike every one of our 27 previous married Christmases) she spent no time with them this Christmas, tells me that she knows perfectly well that she's likely to hear stuff from them that she doesn't want to hear. She doesn't want to hear the truth from me, either, or really, from anybody else. This is why she's listening to friends she's known for a year and a half, people who have no emotional stake in our marriage and who don't really know me. She doesn't want to be told she's wrong or acting stupidly.

you also mentioned that her family has no idea of her behavior. why haven't you exposed this to them(family & friends)? why haven't you exposed her and this POS "H" to the folks in the theater company? you can't "nice" this woman into coming back. you need to play "hardball" with these people. by no means is this a tactic for her to return to the marriage, but rather to bust up the fantasy she's living in(affairs thrive in secrecy). you need to do this stat.

I've tried to contact one of her sisters, who's my favorite among my in-laws, and she hasn't gotten back to me, which disturbs me somewhat. I've really wrestled with being in touch with them at all, though, thinking that maybe it's my *wife's* job to break the news; and really, all I'd be doing is tattling, and I don't know that this would do anything helpful for. Still, I want to talk to her.

i also think your son is old enough to know what his mother is doing..... why this marriage is coming to an apparent end. he's an adult, who you say already has an inkling of what's going on.


I don't think I can be the one to tell him that his mother is having sex with another man. I certainly doubt that *she* has told him, either. I'm torn on this, because I don't want their relationship to get any worse than it is.

Thanks very much for your concern and advice. I really appreciate it.

Smoky,

I just popped in and saw some of your newer posts. Please take a few moments to try and calm down and relax. Breathe Smoke....breathe. Deep in and out breaths very slowly. This shit storm has a tendency to make anyone go off on overload if not checked now and then. From the biggest of bruisers to the gentlest of souls, we ALL need a respite now and then to calm down and collect ourselves. Take a step back so you can collect yours.

OK, now that you've done that, let's kook again at your current situation. First, I really liked this comment in one of your posts:

And recently I cooked broccoli, which I haven't been able to do for years, since it has a terrible effect on her stomach, and I thought, "Well, that's one of the things I'll be able to do, now that she's gone." So I'm hoping that's a good sign.

That's excellent thinking on your part and you need to do more of it. Thinking this way is a start of detaching and considering a life as the new you. Without this sounding too harsh, you need to understand that your WW in her current mindset is a toxin not only for your well being but also your sons. That doesn't mean you should blow your WW up to your son, just that you both need to find a way of detaching right now and moving on with your lives WITHOUT your WW poisoning you both though her actions and words.

Here's an exercise for you to try to help you begin to redirect your thinking and detach. Grab a piece of paper and write down everything you can think of that you've always wanted to do, but couldn't when WW was living with you.

You say that you like broccoli, but couldn't have it when WW was there because it affected her stomach. What else didn't she like that you and your son did? Did you both like scary movies and she didn't? Did you always want a cat, but didn't dare get one because she was allergic? Do you and your son like hard rock, but didn't listen to it because WW was into country music? See where I'm going with this? Anything that you (or you and your son) like and couldn't do with WW there, write it down on the paper. You don't have to do this all at once. Take a few days and really think about it. When you come across something in your mind, grab the paper and write it down.

Then, when you think you've got most of it down on paper, read them out loud to yourself a couple of times. Let them really sink in. Then try and pick a few of them that really stand out to you. Put a check mark next to them and read them out loud to yourself again. Now take the first one that is check marked and if it is with-in your means...DO IT! Take note of how you feel while you are doing it. Was it liberating? Was it fun? Is it something you want to do again? Would you enjoy doing it with your son? Keep going down the list and doing the check marked items one by one. If you find some that really trip your trigger, make sure you note that on your list for future reference.

Smoke, this may at first seem like a silly exercise to you. However, trust me when I say that the more you do this, the more you'll begin to realize that you can in fact have a life without your WW in it. Even something as silly as laying around the house in your skivvies now because you'd never do it when WW was there can be very powerful in helping you to rearrange your thought process and begin to detach.

BYW, as for your son, I get that you are very concerned about his current state of mind. I think it's good that you are being proactive and suggesting therapy to him. Just a word of caution however. While I agree that you need to stay aware of your son's mood swings and behavior, please try not to smother him completely. Doing this will only lead to more anxiety for him. He needs to go through his own thought process concerning how all of this is affecting him. Please don't take offense to this, but a lot of that process has nothing at all to do with you, or WW. They are his personal thoughts and you can't stifle, rearrange or control them. No more than you have any control over your WW's thought processes right now. Let your son feel his thoughts by himself. Give him the space and time to process those thoughts again, by himself. I know that sounds really scary now, especially with everything else on your plate and his state of mind, but sometimes as parents the best thing we can do is back off a little. Kids, especially teens, need down time too. Be there for him when he needs you. Let him know he can always talk to you when he needs to. Then, back off a little and let him have his down time to process. It sounds like you live together in a small apartment so I realize that this is easier said than done. But please try. I guarantee you'll have a healthier relationship with him in the long run. JMO from past experience.

Hang in there bro and keep posting. We are all here for you when you need us.

[This message edited by PanicAttack53 at 6:37 PM, January 6th (Sunday)]

smoky, my questioning stems from the fact that you seem to think you've done all you can to save this marriage, all the while not following through with the most basic concept in "affair-busting"-- EXPOSURE.

you seriously need to let people(friends & family) know what's going on. especially her own family. you're not "tattling," you're giving them information that pertains to the WHOLE family. they are by nature your family also, as you married into their circle.

furthermore, she can go around and start rewriting marital history and painting you in a bad light to justify her behavior.

idk, but it kinda sounds like a somewhat passive attempt on your part(no offense)..... you're wishing she would just "snap out of it" and come running back to you. that's not gonna happen, m'man.

personally, i think she's a lost cause. she's pretty much made up her mind. but for you to make her affair that much easier is confusing to me.

as for your son, you seem to be shielding him from the obvious-- your wife's BLATANT affair with her "co-star." if he's as sharp as you say, i'm sure he can handle the truth. he is NOT oblivious to the situation, give the young man some credit..... TELL HIM. he may very well be the support you need; and vice versa.

again, i'm really sorry. stay strong.

[This message edited by simplePete at 9:30 PM, January 6th (Sunday)]

PanicAttack53

just popped in and saw some of your newer posts. Please take a few moments to try and calm down and relax. Breathe Smoke....breathe. Deep in and out breaths very slowly. This shit storm has a tendency to make anyone go off on overload if not checked now and then. From the biggest of bruisers to the gentlest of souls, we ALL need a respite now and then to calm down and collect ourselves. Take a step back so you can collect yours.

Well, I tried two deep breaths. Now I'm a little dizzy.

Actually, relaxing just doesn't come easy for me, and hasn't for a long time, even when I felt secure in my marriage and relationship. My employment history and finances really take a lot out of me -- I haven't really learned how to let stuff go yet....

OK, now that you've done that, let's kook again at your current situation. First, I really liked this comment in one of your posts:

And recently I cooked broccoli, which I haven't been able to do for years, since it has a terrible effect on her stomach, and I thought, "Well, that's one of the things I'll be able to do, now that she's gone." So I'm hoping that's a good sign.

That's excellent thinking on your part and you need to do more of it. Thinking this way is a start of detaching and considering a life as the new you.

Well, I also deleted all her DVR recordings and program settings....

Without this sounding too harsh, you need to understand that your WW in her current mindset is a toxin not only for your well being but also your sons. That doesn't mean you should blow your WW up to your son, just that you both need to find a way of detaching right now and moving on with your lives WITHOUT your WW poisoning you both though her actions and words.

I agree completely. In fact, I'm still waffling about sending her a text urging her to read an e-mail about how our son behaved yesterday. I mean, I know I should -- she's his mother, and supposedly she's heavily invested in his well-being too -- and I can do it in a way that doesn't sound accusing, but I know it'll break her heart to read it. Still, she has to *know*. I just haven't figured out how to handle it yet.

Here's an exercise for you to try to help you begin to redirect your thinking and detach. Grab a piece of paper and write down everything you can think of that you've always wanted to do, but couldn't when WW was living with you.

You say that you like broccoli, but couldn't have it when WW was there because it affected her stomach. What else didn't she like that you and your son did? Did you both like scary movies and she didn't? Did you always want a cat, but didn't dare get one because she was allergic? Do you and your son like hard rock, but didn't listen to it because WW was into country music? See where I'm going with this? Anything that you (or you and your son) like and couldn't do with WW there, write it down on the paper. You don't have to do this all at once. Take a few days and really think about it. When you come across something in your mind, grab the paper and write it down.

I'll try. Honestly, I can't think of a lot of things like that. She made it clear over the years that I was too heavily interested in baseball, though, and gradually, since our son was born, I've managed to cut way back, even to the point of just not enjoying it all that much anymore -- I always felt a little guilty just for watching or listening to it. It's not that she hates baseball -- she just isn't interested (even though "H" is a big fan of the same team), and, well, we all know I can get a li'l obsessive....

Then, when you think you've got most of it down on paper, read them out loud to yourself a couple of times. Let them really sink in. Then try and pick a few of them that really stand out to you. Put a check mark next to them and read them out loud to yourself again. Now take the first one that is check marked and if it is with-in your means...DO IT! Take note of how you feel while you are doing it. Was it liberating? Was it fun? Is it something you want to do again? Would you enjoy doing it with your son?

Again, I just can't think of much that would fit the bill. I'll try, though.

Smoke, this may at first seem like a silly exercise to you. However, trust me when I say that the more you do this, the more you'll begin to realize that you can in fact have a life without your WW in it. Even something as silly as laying around the house in your skivvies now because you'd never do it when WW was there can be very powerful in helping you to rearrange your thought process and begin detach.

No, it doesn't seem silly. I just really have to put some thought into it.

BYW, as for your son, I get that you are very concerned about his current state of mind. I think it's good that you are being proactive and suggesting therapy to him. Just a word of caution however. While I agree that you need to stay aware of your son's mood swings and behavior, please try to not smother him completely.

Oh, he wouldn't permit it. Maybe just because he's 18, he really doesn't go out of his way to confide in either of his parents -- in fact, he can be downright silent. But he does seem to want to talk to *somebody*. (I'm really annoyed with his ex-high-school counselor, though, because she'd always said she wanted to stay in touch with him, but now she's saying -- and he heard the voicemail -- that "he's not one of my kids anymore." Not *that* different from what his own mom is doing.)

He needs to go through his own thought process concerning how all of this is affecting him. Please don't take offense to this but a lot of that process has nothing at all to do with you, or WW. They are his personal thoughts and you can't rearrange or control them. No more than you can control WW's thought process right now. Let your son feel his thoughts by himself. Give him the space and time to process those thoughts again, by himself. I know that sounds really scary now, especially with everything else on your plate and his state of mind, but sometimes as parents the best thing we can do is back off a little. Kids, especially teens, need down time too. Be there for him when he needs you. Let him know he can always talk to you when he needs to. Then, back off a little and let him have his down time to process. It sounds like you live together in a small apartment so I realize that this is easier said than done. But please try. I guarantee you'll have a healthier relationship with him in the long run. JMO from past experience.

No offense taken, especially since I agree with you. I don't want to force him into therapy or anything -- but I do feel that this is all too big for him to handle on his own. But seeing him yesterday, unable to speak... talk about breaking hearts.

Hang in there bro and keep posting. We are all here for you when you need us.

This means more to me than you know.

simplePete:

smoky, my questioning stems from the fact that you seem to think you've done all you can to save this marriage, all the while not following through with the most basic concept in "affair-bustin"-- EXPOSURE.

you seriously need to let people(friends & family) know what's going on. especially her own family. you're not "tattling," you're giving them information that pertains to the WHOLE family. they are by nature your family also, as you married into their circle.

I kind of think so, too. I'm a mite concerned about the fact that the sister-in-law for whom I left a voicemail hasn't gotten back to me. She's the one I like the most, and I know she's very fond of me as well... but since blood is thicker than water, I can easily understand why she wouldn't want to talk to me.

furthermore, she can go around and start rewriting marital history and painting you in a bad light to justify her behavior.

I think she's gonna do that anyway.

idk, but it kinda sounds like a half-assed attempt on your part(no offense)..... you're wishing she would just snap out of it and come back to you. that's not gonna happen, m'man.

personally, i think she's a lost cause. she's pretty much made up her mind. but for you to make her affair that much easier is confusing to me.

Well, I don't know what I can do to make the affair any more difficult to conduct. I really don't think her siblings' disapproval (assuming they *would* disapprove) would be any deterrent. She's convinced that living with me is the worst of all possible evils, and I really don't think anything they say can help. And, as I've said, she really hasn't said anything to them because she has a good idea that they'd tell her stuff she doesn't want to hear. What she *should* realize is that they're going to support her, no matter *how* stupid she's being.

And yeah, I can't get past the idea of hoping she'll come back. The problem is that, rationally, I think it *could* happen -- not that I think it's *likely*. And since it's what I want, it's a tough idea to let go of. It's one of the points I'll be making in therapy, hoping that it's something I can really work on.

as for your son, you seem to be shielding him from the obvious-- your wife's blatant affair. if he's as sharp as you say, i'm sure he can handle the truth. he is NO oblivious to the sitaution, give the young man some credit..... TELL HIM.

Oh, I don't doubt that he has an idea about it. It just doesn't feel "appropriate" to talk about it with him. I don't know. I just feel as though if he hears it from me, it'll trash their relationship even more, and I don't want to do that. She may be taking the most important part of my life from me, but I don't want to take her son from her.

But I think he'll have to know at some point. Maybe she'll have to tell him. I just don't know.

Smoky, re your sister's 9 years of therapy, it doesn't need to take that long. Mine took 2 years - oh, and as for her not dating for five years, I also think that while you need time to heal, you needn't be condemned to years of soul-searching loneliness. In that time I've met someone else and fallen deeply in love. You're still in shock, but there is a future out there.

crazynot:

Smoky, re your sister's 9 years of therapy, it doesn't need to take that long. Mine took 2 years - oh, and as for her not dating for five years, I also think that while you need time to heal, you needn't be condemned to years of soul-searching loneliness. In that time I've met someone else and fallen deeply in love. You're still in shock, but there is a future out there.

Thanks. Even though I know otherwise, rationally, my brain still won't really let me believe that it's over over over -- if only because, a month ago, it wasn't. I'm hoping that, if anything, therapy can help me into a mindset of acceptance and move-on-itude.

Meanwhile, the marriage counselor said on Saturday that I shouldn't get into any "heavy, emotional relationship" for at least a year or two, until I "heal." Since I don't really know what healing would entail, that sounded pretty daunting... except for the fact that I don't plan on dating at *all* in the near future. (And in any case, it's not like I'll be looking for women just to hit the hay with....)

but I know it'll break her heart to read it.

Oh sweetie, ^^^is NOT your concern!!!! Your SON is your concern. Did she take even a nano-second to think of your and your son??? To the hell NO! Sooooo, now that you are finding your big-boy pants you will see that what concerns you and your son will become so much more important than what concerns her. You WILL get there!!

Also, you have such a full plate right now just getting thru this, with your son, that my advice (which isn't much) would be to NOT worry about "down the road of dating". When I had anxiety, and was seeing a C, she always told me to just "look at today, the future will get here soon enough, no sense worrying about it now." Now that I don't suffer from it much any more I can, now, look at the future. But back then it was "one day a time".

Let your son guide you on what he needs thru this. As parents we always want to shield, protect and help our kids avoid hurt and disappointment. Sometimes we just have to take a step back, and follow their lead. You also cannot control his relationship with his mom. That is for her to do. She f'd up, let her fix it. You don't want it coming back, in the future, to bite YOU in the ass for trying to manage THEIR relationship. Hard, I know, but since he is 18, it will also be good for him.

Sending more hugs ((((Smoky))))

Gently…

I think it’s better to be honest and frank with teenage kids. After all your son is a major stakeholder in your marriage. The daunting factor is managing to open up and talk about what your wife has done without passing judgment or expecting your son to pass judgment on your wife – his mother.

I suggest you try to explain that relationships can be complex. That your wife sought things outside the marriage that should have been resolved within it. That despite you wanting to solve the issues then she isn’t willing to. Then explain that this is your side of the story. That he does not have to take sides nor should he pass judgment. Tell him that even if this ends in divorce then it won’t diminish his importance in both your lives.

still2suspicious

but I know it'll break her heart to read it.

Oh sweetie, ^^^is NOT your concern!!!! Your SON is your concern. Did she take even a nano-second to think of your and your son??? To the hell NO! Sooooo, now that you are finding your big-boy pants you will see that what concerns you and your son will become so much more important than what concerns her. You WILL get there!!

Well, I'm not exactly *worried* that it'll break her heart -- just more a comment on how I know she'll react.

I did eventually e-mail her about my talk with my son on Saturday. She texted back, asking me to try not to leave him by himself. (I really don't think he's at all likely to hurt himself or anybody else, but it's better to be safe than sorry....)

I'm definitely more in a mode of what concerns my son and me -- especially him, right now. I ended up speaking with the County Mental Health people (namely his counselor from high school -- who actually called, despite the thing about "he's not one of my kids anymore") and one of the people he's "transitioning" to. I'm pretty sure one or more of them will meet with him this week, and maybe it'll be a regular thing.

Also, you have such a full plate right now just getting thru this, with your son, that my advice (which isn't much) would be to NOT worry about "down the road of dating". When I had anxiety, and was seeing a C, she always told me to just "look at today, the future will get here soon enough, no sense worrying about it now." Now that I don't suffer from it much any more I can, now, look at the future. But back then it was "one day a time".

For what it's worth, I'm really not worried about dating. I don't even see it as a possibility yet. For one thing, I'm still married (if only officially), but mostly... it just isn't even on the radar.

Let your son guide you on what he needs thru this. As parents we always want to shield, protect and help our kids avoid hurt and disappointment. Sometimes we just have to take a step back, and follow their lead. You also cannot control his relationship with his mom. That is for her to do. She f'd up, let her fix it. You don't want it coming back, in the future, to bite YOU in the ass for trying to manage THEIR relationship. Hard, I know, but since he is 18, it will also be good for him.

I don't want to control his relationship with his mom. All I can do is hope she picks up the ball and runs with it. It really does have to come from her. I know I can't repair that relationship, so I won't even try. It's mildly encouraging to see her concerned texts and e-mail today -- encouraging in terms of *him*, I mean.

Meanwhile, thanks again for your concern, sympathy, and support.

I'm definitely more in a mode of what concerns my son and me

That sounds good to me.

Take care.

Bigger:

I think it’s better to be honest and frank with teenage kids. After all your son is a major stakeholder in your marriage. The daunting factor is managing to open up and talk about what your wife has done without passing judgment or expecting your son to pass judgment on your wife – his mother.

I hear what you're saying, but -- at the moment, anyway -- I can't bring myself to tell him that his mother is having an affair... especially because it's not really the affair that's making her leave (or, at least, I don't *think* it is). Not only that, but there's no way I can do it without bitterness.

I suggest you try to explain that relationships can be complex. That your wife sought things outside the marriage that should have been resolved within it. That despite you wanting to solve the issues then she isn’t willing to. Then explain that this is your side of the story. That he does not have to take sides nor should he pass judgment. Tell him that even if this ends in divorce then it won’t diminish his importance in both your lives.

Well, except for that part of me that still has hope, I believe firmly that this *will* end in divorce. And something that I do try to get across is that he's hugely important to both of us. I don't feel I can really say, "Your mother's gone off the deep end, and right now she's all about *her* (and the asshole she's with)." I kind of think it has to be *her* place to make her position clear to him -- whether she talks about the affair or not, i.e., if she just wants to couch it in terms of "needing something new," or whatever.

I may eventually be able to tell him about the affair, but right now I just can't.

Smoke,

As always Bigger gave you excellent advice and I concur. However, if you feel you can't tell your son about the affair stuff, that's YOUR call. He is YOUR son after all. You can still use the second part of Bigger's advice e.g.,:

That despite you wanting to solve the issues then she isn’t willing to. Then explain that this is your side of the story. That he does not have to take sides nor should he pass judgment. Tell him that even if this ends in divorce then it won’t diminish his importance in both your lives.

To be honest, this is the most important part anyway. You need to stress to him that this is an adult issue, and adults sometimes have problems in a relationship that just can't be resolved. That it is in no way any of his fault and no matter what happens you will still be his dad and she will still be his mom.

One more thing. I don't hear you saying in any of these posts that you're getting out of your apartment, even for a short while. I have this minds eye view of you going to work, then coming home and sitting in front of your computer all day or night. That's not at all healthy my friend, especially now. You need to get out man! If only to just take a walk, breathe some fresh air and clear your mind. Please force yourself to do this every day. You'll be amazed how this small gesture for yourself will do wonders for your physical and mental well being.

I don't know where you live but if you don't want to get out and walk, there are FREE resources in most areas that offer support groups for exactly what you're going through now. Just google something like "Divorce Support Group" in your area and I'm sure you'll come up with something. SI is a great support venue and I myself am thankful everyday that I have it. However, I also frequent a real life DSG in my area once a month and it has been a God send for me to be able to interact with others going through this in a face to face setting. Just a suggestion for you to consider.

Hang in there and keep posting, we're still all here for you!

PanicAttack53:

As always Bigger gave you excellent advice and I concur. However, if you feel you can't tell your son about the affair stuff, that's YOUR call. He is YOUR son after all. You can still use the second part of Bigger's advice e.g.,:

That despite you wanting to solve the issues then she isn't willing to. Then explain that this is your side of the story. That he does not have to take sides nor should he pass judgment. Tell him that even if this ends in divorce then it won't diminish his importance in both your lives.

Yeah, that's the big one right there. I've made those points, but maybe not in exactly that way, and Bigger states it exceptionally well.

To be honest, this is the most important part anyway. You need to stress to him that this is an adult issue, and adults sometimes have problems in a relationship that just can't be resolved. That it is in no way any of his fault and no matter what happens you will still be his dad and she will still be his mom.

I think he understands that; mostly it's the part about his foundation being ripped out from under him. I mean, we haven't had that easy a life -- who has? -- and unfortunate stuff just keeps happening (mostly involving money). I don't mean to whine -- just that *he* really feels it. I can't speak for him, but I'm guessing that the pain my wife is causing *me* is really getting to him, but it's nothing like his feeling of being abandoned.

One more thing. I don't hear you saying in any of these posts that you're getting out of your apartment, even for a short while. I have this minds eye view of you going to work, then coming home and sitting in front of your computer all day or night.

Ha! A lot *you* know! These days I'm working *at* home.

I haven't done it today, but I try and get out for a walk each day. Lately it's been cold -- usually I don't mind the cold, but it's been nasty (for the area; I mean, it never gets below the high 30's here), and it's kind of curtailed some of my walks.

I do spend a lot of time in front of computers -- both my home desktop and work laptop. I have to say, I really like working at home, and I like my boss... primarily because he lives in another state and is very hands-off. I've been hovered over by crazy people for way too long, and it's nice to be trusted to just do my damn *job*.

That's not at all healthy my friend, especially now. You need to get out man! If only to just take a walk, breathe some fresh air and clear your mind. Please force yourself to do this every day. You'll be amazed how this small gesture for yourself will do wonders for your physical and mental well being.

I'm having trouble making myself do it *every* day, but I do manage to get out probably five days a week. I have an appointment in a few minutes, so at least I'll get out for *that* (though I'll be driving).

I don't know where you live but if you don't want to get out and walk, there are FREE resources in most areas that offer support groups for exactly what you're going through now. Just google something like "Divorce Support Group" in your area and I'm sure you'll come up with something. SI is a great support venue and I myself am thankful everyday that I have it. However, I also frequent a real life DSG in my area once a month and it has been a God send for me to be able to interact with others going through this in a face to face setting. Just a suggestion for you to consider.

I'm strongly considering a support group, but I'm not finding one yet -- at least not any *free* ones. Will keep trying, though.

One thing that somewhat hampers me getting out of the house right now is my wife's concern about leaving our son by himself (based on her take on his behavior Saturday). I really don't think he'd hurt himself, but who knows? Maybe I'm wrong. I dunno. I'd like to believe she's overreacting.

By the way, my appointment is with local clergy. I'm not what you'd call "religious" -- in fact, I *hate* going to services, and I've never been a fan of being part of a "congregation." But I figured that some spiritual counseling might well be in order. Couldn't hurt.

As always, thanks for your kind words.

smoke, I'm going to echo the getting out part. granted my son was a lot younger at the time of my divorce/going through the process, I used the time I had to go out with him and learn who he was and what his likes were. granted at 18 hanging out with his dad probably will not be your son's number 1 priority, but at least give him the chance. it's a win win anyway you look at it buddy.

hang tough been there done that. I know these are rough times. remember you got 37,000 supporters in your corner.

5454real:

smoke, I'm going to echo the getting out part. granted my son was a lot younger at the time of my divorce/going through the process, I used the time I had to go out with him and learn who he was and what his likes were. granted at 18 hanging out with his dad probably will not be your son's number 1 priority, but at least give him the chance. it's a win win anyway you look at it buddy.

hang tough been there done that. I know these are rough times. remember you got 37,000 supporters in your corner.

Thanks again.

Well, whether he wants it or not, he and I are pretty much gonna be thrown together -- though I don't know what we'd be doing. Going on walks, for one thing -- he needs exercise, too.

I'm going to try and get him to go with me to my mom's this weekend -- not that I really want to go, but as I've said before, she's on her own for the first time ever, and she needs the company. Plus, she's pretty unsteady on her feet these days and could use help around the house. Problem with getting my son to go is that he's now convinced that he's too allergic to the cat.

Other than that, I'll look into divorce support groups. It was also recommended to me to look into places to volunteer. Frankly, I don't really want to do that, but at least it would get me outside of myself for a while....

but at least it would get me outside of myself for a while....

This is the key my man. Anything, and I do mean anything as long as it isn't detrimental to yours and your sons well being is A.Very.Good.Thing right now. You need time outside of yourself to recharge your batteries if nothing else.

Look Smoke, this shit storm can be overwhelming to even the toughest, meanest hard asses on earth, let alone a nice guy like you (no offense intended). If you don't take time now and then to step away from it and recharge, it'll have untold consequences to you both physically and mentally. Trust me when I say I've BTDT!

but I'm guessing that the pain my wife is causing *me* is really getting to him, but it's nothing like his feeling of being abandoned.

I'm really concerned about this statement. Reread that again slowly please! Your deflecting again man and THAT statement is classic codependent speak. I know you love your son and you're concerned about him. I truly do get that. However, how can you know that "it's nothing like his feeling of being abandoned." Gently here.... aren't you reading just a little of what YOU think he is feeling into what YOU yourself are really feeling? Be honest with yourself. I'm starting to get the feeling that you're what we codependents call "A Fixer". You see something wrong, or someone close to you hurting and have this overwhelming need to FIX it or them. Well I'll clue you into to something you may not want to hear. I didn't when it was told to me, and BTW, I know I'm a codependent poster boy.

Here it is..... YOU.CAN'T.FIX.ANYTHING.OR.ANYONE.BUT.YOURSELF! Read that and let it sink in for awhile. Are you getting it?

You can't FIX your son. You can't FIX H. And you most certainly can't FIX your wife or your marriage in their current state. Check that! You can't FIX your wife period! Only YOU can FIX YOU, and everything else my friend is totally 100% out of your control.

What you CAN do is be there to support your son. Be there to listen to him. I mean just listen without walking over what he has to tell you by commandeering the conversation. It took me a long time to finally get that one vital piece of information through my head. I was a fixer too and what I discovered is that I wasn't doing anyone any favors, least of all myself, by trying to fix things. I now do a lot more listening and only work on trying my best to fix myself. Because in the long run, that's the only way I can really be of benefit to others.

Sorry for the long ramble. That subject is of prime importance to me of late (can you tell? ).

I can't bring myself to tell him that his mother is having an affair... especially because it's not really the affair that's making her leave (or, at least, I don't *think* it is).

Sorry to pick up on such a small thing, but it's actually not small to me.

You've been married for twenty-gazillion years, and NOW she is so unhappy she wants a divorce?? It IS the affair, trust me.

And believing anything else indicates to me that you blame yourself. That's why this is important. Nothing about her "unhappiness" led her to divorce you last year, or the year before, or five years before that. It is the affair because she's in that affair fog so deep that all she can think of is how much "happier" she can be without you.

She is leaving because of the affair. I have no doubt. If you do, at least make sure it's not because you think you were a bad husband that she is leaving you.