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Why do you think you must sell your house immediately? Why do you think you have to sell it at all? Why do you insist on thinking all divorces are acrimonious? Since she wants the divorce, why would it automatically be acrimonious?

Your thinking & assumptions need to be challenged.

File. It's a process that you can set the speed of. You can request a later court date than you are initially given if necessary. Trust me, filing will actually lift a great weight from your shoulders. You will once again feel in control of your life. The future will be clearly delineated for you. You will be able to begin planning for you and your children's future.

You can file, only paying an initial fee to the lawyer, & then delay everything as long as you need to---you can delay it for years & years if you need time to "get your ducks in a row," and finalize it when you are ready for that.

But the act of you filing & serving her is very powerful & sends a very strong message.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 4:23 PM, August 17th (Saturday)]

ScaredDad,

Just wanted to share some things that have happened in my situation the last 48 hours. They are along the lines of what folks are saying to you, but I have been taking things pretty slow as well, so I thought it might be useful to this thread.

As I mentioned before I have tried to begin the 180 and have been minimal in my speaking to my wife. I had told her a couple of days ago that I had spoken with a lawyer and yesterday she asked me about it. She asked what I had spoken with the lawyer about (my wife is a lawyer herself), and I replied that it was between the my lawyer and me. This really flustered her and she responded by yelling, "so you are trying to start a war with me?" I told her that I never said that. I told her I spoke to the lawyer to protect myself from her. Her reaction to this really surprised me, but it goes along with what others are saying about snapping the WS out of the fog (not to say that my wife is out of the fog).

Then later on she engaged me in a conversation about her pushing the separation. I said to her in the course of the conversation that she is assuming that the separation will go through and that I will continue taking care of her needs (meaning her needs in regards to the cancer). I used a phrase such as, "you expect to get rid of me as a husband through separation, but still expect to have two men taking care of you. And that isn't going to happen." Again, she had a very strong reaction of crying and yelling that I was just going to let her die and not take care of her. My response to that was that I don't know yet what I will be willing or not willing to do, but what is sure is that if we separate my level of care will not be the same. I had not picked her up in CT several days earlier and she cried, asking why I had not done that, and I think she saw that this was an example of what I meant.

She then asked me for a list of my needs that I had written out several days earlier. I had written these out so that it would be very clear about what I was asking of her in terms of my desire to reconcile. She had read it and then ignored it. But yesterday she asked for it again. My only take on this is that my statement flustered her enough to at least read the letter.

I ended up driving her and the kids yesterday to a vacation home where he and the kids and her parents are going to be for the next week (I did it for the kids and not her). On the drive she showed me that she had put our wedding band and engagement ring back on, as she says, "to see how they feel". She hasn't worn those in years (definitely not since she began the affair 3 years ago). That completely through me. She said that I had put her back in limbo in terms of what she wants.

So I apologize for throwing my stuff on your thread, but it really surprised me how she reacted to my actions and statements. I also feel a bit better because I feel like I am beginning to accept that a separation is going to happen. I am struggling with the issue of how much care for a dying ex-spouse is too much, but at least stating that things aren't going to be exactly the same has made her think about what matters.

As I said in a previous post, little things at a time. Also here are two quotes I found that I am using as mantras these last two days. Thought they could help.

We cannot change our past. We can not change the fact that people act in a certain way. We can not change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude.

Charles R. Swindoll

The last of human freedoms - the ability to chose one's attitude in a given set of circumstances.

Viktor E. Frankl

Thanks kg, that is interesting and it gives me something to think about.

Quite frankly, I have been feeling that nothing I do can snap her out of this. So I haven't put much stock in the idea that filing for divorce will make an impact on her. I would do it if I thought it would help me or help her come out of her fog but I honestly don't think it will.

This has been an interesting weekend. Easier now that it is just me, her and the kids, now my family has left. I'm starting to build the idea that this is the new normal for us. On the one hand I like the idea of getting some stability but it is also difficult when I think about what I have lost and still stand to lose.

There are times when I am not even thinking about the A and we are being our usual selves together and everything seems normal. Then I remember what she has done and how that makes me feel about her now and I mourn for the loss of the woman I loved.

To be honest, I am probably being too nice about it all, letting her get too comfortable. But being cold or nasty doesn't make me feel any better either.

I just want to move on with accepting all this. I want to accept the idea that the woman I loved is gone. The person who is left is someone I could never love so I should just let her go.

And there you go Scareddad.

For the sake of you and the kids you need to let her go. She's showing you who she is. Believe her.

k9

SG,

filing for D asap will indeed help you. I do not understand your hesitation and black and white thinking ,e.g. that if you are not nice and loving then you must be aggressive and mean.

Filing for D will help you:

1. Puts YOU in control

2. Makes a clear, objective statement that adultery and the subsequent cake-eating is intolerable and unacceptable from an objective and unemotional view of fairness

3. You get back your self respect because you are no longer showing that you need her approval

Filing is a very simple yet symbolic step.

I get the sense that you do not want your marriage because you are making choices that insures that the 10% chance you had is forfeited. You can not nice your woman back to you or wait her out. She does not respect you on some level and your inaction is supporting her view.

sorry to be harsh. Just giving you an honest opinion.

Jack

SD while I can understand what your saying I can honestly say that your defeat and destroyed perception of reality is hurting you and your kids daily. You feel as though you have no options and that simply is not true. You can file you can make her staying in the home so incredibly uncomfortable that she chooses to leave. You can also deman equal time "off" from being a spouse and a father.

Cheaters are incredibly selfish and have the unique ability to destroy the betrayeds self esteem like no one else.

Lastly I urge you to seriously consider what you would want for your kids of they were ever in the same position that you are right now. Being a doormat shows them a very skewed version of what a good M is and should be. I know it hurts like hell. I know how you feel. Most if not all of us here have had to go through this. We get it. We also urge you to learn from our mistakes. It is time to get strong.

SD,

we are being our usual selves together and everything seems normal.

I'm not going to push the "get divorced now" view, but this statement you made is the attitude to be wary of I think. Things aren't normal. So even though you are not ready to make definite plans for the future you should be thinking about how to control your approach to interacting with her. The 180 suggestions are the way I'm structuring my thinking right now. At some point the decisions about living arrangements need to become definite, but your approach to your interactions need to be thought out and consistent. It's taken me 3 weeks to get to a place where I can feel ok about that.

Just curious, why do you guys think that filing for D is a 'get divorced now' approach?

SD

I'll chime in with TushN and others; we all get your pain, and get your hesitation. And yes, some us may sound a little harsh, but it comes from a good place. We all wanted to think our sitch was 'special', but sadly, these things all seem to play out the same way. Learn from many of ours mistakes. Filing is an incredibly positive step, trust in that.

SD,

You have been severely traumatized. That's why there is a BS fog. You keep hoping that WS will "wake up", or the alien will leave their body. You can't see the forest thru the trees right now---it takes time to sort it all out. It did for all of us. And we were all scared. We all had money problems, mortgages, we were all financially tied up with WS. We were all afraid that if we said: "No more. Here's where I draw the line", that WS would become vicious & take it out on us & the kids during divorce proceedings.None of us were "ready for this".

Right now, your #1 concern seems to be "to be nice".

I don't think you are seeing clearly that SHE IS NOT BEING VERY NICE TO YOU (or your kids). What she is doing is abusive and selfish.

If you can't get angry about that for yourself, get angry for your kids. Do you not see how she is betraying your kids as well. Only they are not old enough to take a stand about it. You are.

I know SD that you are probably thinking that we are all being so tough on you. It is only because we have all been thru exactly this ( it is amazing how similiar all WSs are) & we have learned from our mistakes, & we are hoping you don't make the same mistakes we made.

I myself said the exact same things you are saying, & it went on for 6 mos with my WH continuing contact with OW---he kept saying that he had ended it, but I kept catching him in lies & I even followed him & saw them together, more than once. In your case, your WW is being even more blatent, she is telling you that she refuses to stop seeing OM, & yet she refuses to leave the house. How dare she!!!!!!

Ahhhhhh, I'm not strong enough for this.

I read a lot of the responses this afternoon and they rang true and made sense to me. I could see that I was getting too comfortable in the "niceness" of this weekend. She didn't go out to see him. It was basically about the four of us. The three other people I have always cared most in the world about. And it felt good but I also knew it wasn't real.

So I just confronted her about it and said that I can't live like this and I want to move forward with the divorce. I need to get the ball rolling for my own peace of mind. That devolved into an argument about full custody. She's afraid that is what I will push for. I doubt I can get it but at the same time, if my lawyer said I could, I would be sorely tempted. Its probably not even practical but they are all I really care about in all this so how could I not?

Anyway, things went downhill with her telling me how she would go for full custody also. And how she thought she could get it. The fact is neither of us have a strong case either way so there is no way it would be anything but joint so the whole discussion is pointless.

At this point I just want to go upstairs and make peace with her because I don't see what any of this gets me. Like I said before I want to not care enough about the whole situation to just live in my home, with my kids and with a woman who I can now think of as just a friend. Pie in the sky I know but its a nice thought to hold on to.

Don't go upstairs!

She is scared and said whatever she could to scare you as well.

As you say, the most likely scenario is that you would have some form of joint custody. You will not lose your kids.

One of the things my wife has said in the past about the divorce cases she worked was that divorce is not about two separate families, but a new version of the old family (I never thought that statement would be foreshadowing my own family, but...).

Hopefully sometime in the near future the emotions in your house will die down enough that you can begin forming that new family structure, in separate houses.

Quite frankly, I have been feeling that nothing I do can snap her out of this. So I haven't put much stock in the idea that filing for divorce will make an impact on her. I would do it if I thought it would help me or help her come out of her fog but I honestly don't think it will.

My XWW was as far gone into her juvenile new-boyfriend, bullshit fantasy world as it gets. Her adulation and praise for her adultery partner was so far over-the-top that it was actually comical. The guy could walk on water according to her.

After D-day, I told her that there may be a chance of forgiveness and putting our family back together. I told her that there must be absolutely no contact whatsoever - that this man was now utterly dead to her and everything else for that matter. She agreed.

All that happened was that nothing happened. She just continued what she was doing. I'm sure she was texting with him within minutes of that conversation. She made sure of a decision to sabotage and destroy her very own family. She continued her "affair" - in her case, trading sex for flattery, for months after we had separated.

After about nine months after D-day, after nine months of her continuing her destructive toxic bullshit, after nine months of her threatening over and over that she was filing for divorce and me replying with "ok" - I filed for divorce.

After she was served I got the tearful calls asking if we could "fix this". I pressed on. When she lawyered-up, the first communication from her attorney to my attorney was that she wanted reconciliation. I pressed on. When we met at our first mediation, she cried the ENTIRE time, her attorney and the mediator came to me and said she really wants to reconcile. I met her privately during the mediation and she told me she never wanted a divorce and still loves me. I pressed on. From then on she was all about reconciliation. Literally minutes before the divorce was finalized she was still texting me that she did not want it to be final. It was finalized.

Now, after being divorced she still says she wants to reconcile, misses me, blah, blah, blah. Sometimes, the remnants of the guy I was before all this still thinks about grasping at glimpses of the time before all this shit and wants to to give it a shot. But, she really hasn't done the work and introspection needed to find out why in the fuck she would become a traitor to her family, her clan. Why she would drop every boundary she ever had for the sake of a gross and destructive delusion. Why she would give up almost half he time with her children for the sake of a total shitbag. I don't know and am caring less and less why and am only concerned about navigating my children through this despicable shitstorm and hope they come out ok.

My point is that the bullshit fantasy bubble was popped when I filed for, and aggressively pursued divorce. Like I said, she was as far gone as it gets. Her adultery was also supported and enabled by her dysfunctional and toxic friends, although her family was disgusted by her actions, behavior and friends. Her family was very supportive of me.

Your WW really hasn't experienced any significant consequence for her behavior. Keep in mind, this bullshit fantasy she is in is a big dopamine rush for her and she will keep that going for as long as possible until there is some real consequence that she cannot deny or delude herself away from.

Filing for divorce, having her served with the judge-signed Petition for Dissolution of Marriage is a VERY REAL matter. It sends strong messages to her - including the one that says you are not going to tolerate this shit from her any more. Also the one that says you deserve better than this Jerry Springer bullshit she has heaped upon you and your family.

ScaredDad, as KG said your WW got her own scare. You pretty much told her, 'WW, I'm not going keep on letting you eat cake'. She doesn't like that and want's to keep you as babysitter and provider and get her external validation from OM. So she's pushing any button of yours she can find--and your children are a great big button--to keep you doing what she wants and what is in WW's best interests, not your's or your children's.

It's good that WW has moved to the guest room, it will give you a little bit of distance to help you detach.

You are strong enough for this.

Wow SD, I hope you can now see that when you took control she freaked, and pulled the bully card, and threatened you. It's really hard when they respond this way to stay calm,and not become emotional, but if you can muster it, you will see yourself getting stronger.

Most states push for equal custody, and like I said before, if she wants to D this is probably the smoothest path. If she proves herself to be negligent, and unattentive to her kids after D, then you can push for primary custody, and rewrite that part of D. Make sure that you are documenting things. Get a VAR and record every conversation you have with her. IF she is unreasonable you have proof. IF she is threatening you have proof. IF she is unwilling to take time with the kids, so you can take care of you, you have proof.

I know this is really hard. But with our support, some love from family and friends, you will come through this, and on the other side you will be a stonger man who will be happy and healthy.

Keptmyword nailed it beautifully.