SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

They made me make a pact that I wouldn’t do anything drastic for another 90 days so that everyone has time to process and settle down.

Did you know that in some states, continued cohabitation and/or a return to sexual relations after discovery can take adultery as grounds off the table? Have you had any legal advice yet?

It's concerning to me that you used the word "made" in the quote above. It sounds like you haven't taken the time to decide what YOU want, like you're getting strong-armed by your WW and therapist. This is one of the reasons why we typically don't recommend MC (marriage counseling) before IC (individual counseling). Your marriage didn't betray you... your WW did. And NOTHING you did (or didn't do) within your marriage can cause someone to cheat on you. You can't make someone else change their stated values system. They choose that for themselves.

The MC is there to treat The Marriage. So, all too often, we find therapists looking to spread the blame around in an effort to be "fair" to both participants. Many still practice the "unmet needs" model instead of looking to the cheater's character, so false equivalencies like taking a daily nap after work, end up being on equal footing with fucking another guy behind your back. What ends up happening is that the cheater doesn't engage in a deep enough introspection and the character flaws remain. Meanwhile, the emotional trauma that you've experienced gets severely under-treated.

Anyway, I don't like the way you're getting bullied, and even though I don't recommend physical separation very often, it seemed evident in your earlier posts that you're under a lot of pressure to knuckle under and take her back. I've got no problem with R. I'm in R myself. But it has to be on YOUR terms for it to work. Otherwise, you don't heal because you feel perpetually victimized. Cheaters make us into victims... but we don't have to stay that way. We process the injury by recognizing our own power, our autonomy. And once we feel in charge of our lives and in charge of our choices, we can put the victim role behind us. Look up "The Karpman Drama Triangle" online and see how it pertains to your situation. Healing is getting out of that triangle.

Just remember that no matter what you agreed to in therapy, you CAN back out of it. If you feel like promises were made under duress, than that's not the safe space you should have been in with a qualified therapist. And of course... seek legal counsel as soon as possible.

Strength to you.

I was advised not to leave though. And I don’t want to put our daughter through that trauma right now. I’m talking to a lawyer on Thursday to see what he says... I will do what’s best for my daughter and myself based on what the lawyer says. And yes I did scoff a little at this “pact”. I mean I do need her to be the best mom in her unstable state right now and I am thinking of that too. I don’t want our daughter seeing her like this. I’m still so confused. Hopefully the lawyer can offer counsel on what I should do at this point based on our state’s laws..

Yeah, about that pact..... load of crock. Does the IC know that your WW is still involved with another guy?

If so, the IC should be fired. If not, then the IC should be informed, as the pact is null and void if there is another party still in the relationship.

I do need her to be the best mom in her unstable state right now and I am thinking of that too. I don’t want our daughter seeing her like this.

She will be like this regardless of what you do. She is not capable of being the 'best mom'.

I’m still so confused.

Sad to say, your confusion will stay if you continue to try and make sense of your WW's behaviour. There is no 'making sense' of a WS's mind. Some mysteries cannot be solved.

Hopefully the lawyer can offer counsel on what I should do at this point based on our state’s laws.

Best approach ever.

I'd completely ignore the pact and make decisions based on what you want, whether she is capable of R, and what your lawyer suggests. Only follow the pact if you truly believe it is in your best interest. And if you have to break it, so what? She broke your marriage and continues to lie and deceive you. You don't owe it to her to put her over yourself when she can't even put you first now.

JA1982, I will repeat my advice (and that of other posters) that you NOT attend sessions with this counsellor, who clearly is not an expert in helping BETRAYED spouses.

You don't have to commit to ANYTHING. YOU are in control of YOUR healing now. YOU call the shots. Your wife gave up her right to have any input when she went out to seek...uh... input outside of your marriage.

I agree that you don't have to, and probably shouldn't make any solid decision about staying or leaving right now, but that's YOUR business and YOUR decision in as many hours, days or months you see fit.

I'm proud of you for standing your ground on the lawyer. Let her know that you are not afraid - that she put you in this position, and you will explore your options. I also applaud you for not getting too upset over her snooping in your phone like YOU'RE the liar and cheater. After all, you have nothing to hide, right? Except this place...

Always use an "incognito" or "private" window in your browser to view this site so it doesn't get recorded in your history.

Make sure your browser is not remembering your username and password here.

Never, never even mention that you are seeking support here. This is your safe place.

Back on page three I asked you this:

What she said to OM about cuckolding you was said as a turn-on, both to the OM and for herself. That she finds that titillating is a big problem all by itself. Is she in IC to address her problems? I hope so, but fundamentally what turns her on is probably immutable. It is OK for you to decide that is the deal-breaker.

I wonder how you feel about this now? Can anything result in true R with someone who would say those things?

I really hurt for you. I hope your daughter is OK. She may sense that something is up.

[This message edited by Odonna at 6:42 PM, July 30th (Tuesday)]

Why would you agree to anything?

Hold firm to what you know to be true.

"Wife and therapist, it is clear that infidelity has been occurring for longer than my wife has let on. There will be no agreement to do ANYTHING until I feel I have the truth. Period."

This “pact” doesn’t mean shit to me. But it put my wife at ease a little so she can start working on herself in therapy. She’s been thinking this whole time that I’m just going to drop papers in front of her and her anxiety is at an all time high. They are going to dig into the rape she went through before we met and work through that as she never sought out help for that. Like I said while I’m looking out for myself and talking to a lawyer (tomorrow), I need her to work on herself so that our daughter doesn’t suffer. She already sees how sad we both are. I know she sees it even though we are still doing family things to be as normal as possible while we are all together.

Yes I’m still very hurt by everything. The messages I saw run through my head at all times. How she could be so disrespectful and totally put herself out there for this other guy. She said she loved him for fuck sake. I lined her timeline she provided with the time stamped messages that suggested this has happened more than just 3 times. We sat down and went through it and None of it made sense. She was talking fast and in circles. She finally admitted that there MIGHT have been a 4th time they met up. I can see right through her. She’s still lying. I reached out to her closest friend who kind of knows what’s going on, but has been avoiding her because she thinks this is super messed up and really upsets her, and gave her my side of the story. I told her to really listen to what she’s telling you and watch her try and blameshift and justify the whole fucking thing using 4 or 5 things I mentioned in previous posts. I’m not sure if I can trust her but maybe my wife needs her best friend to come down on her and maybe she will call her out on bullshit. We will see...

It is not uncommon for a woman that has been raped and not sought out help to have issues in the future.

Ask your IC about it or Google it.

Loaded up FONELAB on my desktop after she went to sleep. Obtained her phone, hooked it up, and started scanning. The completion percentage was building. I could already see files being recovered. About a half hour later, Then SHE WOKE UP. At this point it was 2:00AM and her phone wasn’t at her bedside like usual. She found me in the the office sitting in front of the computer and she immediately saw her phone was plugged in and she snatched it away and said “wtf”. I told her I was recovering her deleted text messages. And proceeded to tell me how crazy I am and that the counselor said this would not help “fix” our marriage. I told her, I don’t care what the fuck the counselor says and that I still think youre lying and the texts would have all the answers. I then said, you don’t want me to see those texts because you know I’m going to catch you in your bullshit lies and find out much more what has been going on. I find it funny how just days ago you said if you still had those texts, you’d show me them if that was what I needed to get past this. Now when she learned that it was possible to recover deleted texts, she’s back tracking and saying the counselor said that would be a bad idea and said ask the counselor next week and see what he says about you recovering texts.

Her reaction shows that she knows the guilty contents there. And so now you know also, even if you never see them.

And once you know, you know. No more gas-lighting will work on you.

Quite literally your only option is to deliver her divorce papers. They may whack her into remorse, it if not she is absolutely 100% not a reconciliation candidate. She’s using appeal to authority with the counselor so she has time to destroy the texts.

Make 100% sure you take a backup of the phoen as it soon will meet its demise. Rest assured if you look at her search history she’s already researching this

She is getting so many opportunities to just come clean and she is blowing every single one of them spectacularly.

Unfortunately your WW is not R material. Get out of infidelity and go for the D approach

She knows what she's doing bud. Stop with the excuses.

You currently have nothing to work with and the counselor is worse that worthless.

Wake up

The counselor doesnt get to decide about the texts. Or anything else.

If you want the texts, tell her it is non-negotiable. She thinks you will be hurt too much to R. That may be true, but you have the option to tell her "I will not even attempt R without seeing the texts".

Not everyone would want to see them. But if you need to, you need to. Plain as that. She can choose to let you have the phone or D.

[This message edited by Trdd at 9:56 PM, August 4th (Sunday)]

I honestly think you'd be better served by the advice of a well-qualified divorce attorney over that of a marriage counselor who can't be bothered to confront false equivalencies. You're still young, and your marital status isn't what defines you as a good dad. You can still be a excellent father to your child without the baggage of a cheating wife who won't own her shit.

Most people aren't as trapped as they think they are.

How bad were her txt? Do think you can undersee her indiscretions? No one would blame you if you deem it a dealbreaker.

The counselor can make recommendations, but ultimately, your healing is up to you. The counselor's opinion is irrelevant. Your WW has broken trust and is not working to rebuild it. You believe that she is lying regarding the extent of the A. You are asking for verification. This is reasonable.

It very well may make things harder for the counselor, if what you would find will prove that your WW is still lying (she is). And if she wasn't lying, then she wouldn't be afraid of you seeing the texts.

Maybe your WW doesn't understand, YOU are not trying to fix the M, as YOU didn't break your vows and have an A.

Your WW is giving you more evidence that she is lying, minimizing and covering her ass. That is her focus. Her idea of "fixing the M" apparently means rugsweeep and move on.

Good job for standing up for yourself. Keep working on your healing. Until your WW decides to change and fix herself, there is no M to fix.

The 'counselor' wants you and her to rug-sweep this whole affair under the rug. She's fully on board with that plan because it allows her to get away with no consequences. The 'counselor' doesn't have a clue of how to help a BS heal and help a WS to take responsibility. You would do well to take your WS out of the driver's seat and take control of the vehicle. This is your life that you're allowing her and an idiot 'counselor' to run into the ditch. Take charge and employ a counselor that deals with infidelity and take your wife's phone, lock the freaking office door, and recover those texts before she destroys the phone. This is your life. Don't let anyone have control of it.

[This message edited by Dismayed2012 at 1:42 PM, August 5th (Monday)]