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I'm trying to plan an evening out of town with friends on friday.

You could put a VAR wherever she sleeps. Although it doesn’t really matter what she does if you are going for D, those devices help you bring clarity to what’s happening and further convince you on what path to take.

I'm not sure what to say to her if she finds the VAR.

Just look her right in the eye without blinking and tell her, “I don’t know”, a lie so obvious that it’s obvious to everyone that it’s a lie, and don’t flinch. Messaging being liars have no claim to the truth.

Or be honest and tell her that since she has turned into (or always was? TBD) a lying POS, this is the only way to determine who the OM is, so you can ensure he isn’t some dangerous creep who will eventually put your child’s life at risk.

Understand now that to every single thing that she says, you can say, “I don’t believe you”. A liar who isn’t believed is powerless.

Sending strength!

T/j of sorts

steadychevy

Generalizations are seldom if ever good. I made one in answer to EllieKMAS generalization that a BS needs to know. The same generalization you make in your response to me where you slam generalizations… I guess we are all guilty of generalizations (just like this one).

I get the wanting to know. I can get that this want is a need. But if the OP is heading for divorce then his focus should be on that, not some Dick-Tracy-like detective work. Heck… one poster suggested the PI get hired at the Hilton and infiltrate their booking system… Another that OP scan CCTV recordings from nearby businesses to see who enters the hotel. As if OM and WW always go there together arm-in-arm. There are a couple of suggestions for some complex Hollywood plots to lure the info from her. Are these realistic places to focus the energy at?

I think one of the bigger mistakes a BS makes is telling us they want to divorce and then focus on revenge rather than result. I get the wanting to know. I get that it might help with personal recovery. But as far as D goes knowing who OM is becomes a want, not a need.

As I have stated the need to know is a requirement for any form of reconciliation. In fact, it’s one of the prime requirements and R can’t even start before the OM is known. If you have decided to divorce, then IMHO that need becomes a secondary issue. It’s more based on if the OM could in any way impact the divorce process (very rare).

I truly think what I suggested in my first post is generally the best way to go. While the WW is committed to her affair then the OP simply work at getting out of infidelity along the path that is both the only good path available AND the path he wants to walk: Divorce.

If the WW wants even the slightest chance of R, then she needs to divulge who the OM is.

Along the long, tedious process of divorce I am fairly certain the name of OM will be discovered. And that without OP using his bionic eye to scan the hotel registration service while posing as a millionaire or learning hypnotism to get his wife to tell the truth or hiring the Mission Impossible group, gathering DNA samples for CSI-style results.

I also like the three phrases:

I wanted to add one more phrase. "I will take 50% of the blame for problems in the marriage but the affair is 100% on you and that's what ended the marriage." You seem to know this and said your own version when she started blame shifting.

I believe the reason your WW is being "nice" is because she wants you to back off of divorce so that she can cake eat. She likes having the stability of you and the family and keeping her affair secret while keeping OM on the side. She doesn't want anything to change so she is offering you crumbs every so often.

As far as informing the BS I think the main point is that you shouldn't get sidetracked on the divorce process because you are so focused on finding her. For all we know this guy (Tinder, burner phone...) is a pro at covert affairs. He might not even be giving your WW his real name or telling her the truth about his life. Cheaters lie.

Yes, the BS deserves to know. I also believe your WW will be thrown under the bus if you tell the BS... but don't stall all progress on the divorce front while you try to located her. The hope is that you will get more information as you go along.

Otherwise she would have proven to me that she actually blocked him and was NC with him.

If the topic arises, in order for you to confirm she's blocked the OM, you need to know his identity.

Robert22205https:

If the topic arises, in order for you to confirm she's blocked the OM, you need to know his identity.

I'm not going to bring it up. I could see myself saying that her having a boyfriend is unacceptable. When I've said something like that recently, she angrily has said "I don't have a boyfriend" - I just replied. "Yes you do". And until she proves she does not - then she does. It's very simple.

An update on the VAR - not discovered (at least it was still in the place I put it) I listened and nothing of value. Just to work and back. Also, I'm not that optimistic that I will catch her talking to him (unless he gets in the car) because when I had access to the phone records - they only texted. Not a single phone call. My hope is that now that she has totally blocked me from looking at any phone records (which SCREAMS she's still active with him, BTW), that she'll get a bit more bold and begin calling him and maybe I can catch his name during a one sided phone conversation. I realize that's not super likely.

[This message edited by BSHusbandWI at 9:36 AM, June 25th (Thursday)]

When I've said something like that recently, she angrily has said "I don't have a boyfriend" - I just replied. "Yes you do".

There’s no point arguing (going forward), it’s really like arguing with a telemarketer that you don’t need a blender ... for an hour. It’s a huge waste of energy

She is set in her beliefs, whatever makes her comfortable. You can’t control her, and what she believes.

BS only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:36 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

It is also possible that even while you had the phone records that they were using Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp or even FaceTime calls that don't show up on the phone bill. It is going to be tough to track down this guy, but a PI can probably figure it out.

I think that's true. Also Tinder/SnapChat. Those apps show up on the phone record, but as "short codes" that a message or image was sent.

Don't worry about what she may say if she finds the VAR (unlikely, FYI, in the overwhelming majority of cases I've read here and other websites, it has not been found), but if she does, so what ? maybe the last guy who washed the car dropped it, you don't really have to say much if anything at all. As for needing/wanting to know who OM is now, you've already stated you do, I would do the same, it really usually doesn't take that much effort especially if you pay a professional to do it (PI), they'll be doing must of the work, they typically have many tools at their disposal and a few tricks up their sleeves, they usually find the info quickly but of course there are no guarantees, the fact she knows you're onto her could make it more difficult but OTOH your WW was careless enough to get caught by simple phone records, anyway they usually don't expect the BS to hire a PI and have them followed.

The VAR is an inexpensive tool that could get you results, I would also add a GPS tracker or even an old phone with a tracking app to know where she goes and make the PI job easier and less expensive, it's very common for cheaters to talk to their APs when they're in their vehicles and feel safe, especially now that she KNOWS you don't have access to her phone records and call history, or talk about the A with a "friend" or relative who is in the know (not uncommon either), of course there are no guarantees but it's another tool that has proven to be effective in many cases, the more tools you have the more your chances to get the info you want/need, sometimes other APs or knowledge of past As and/or other incidents like financial infidelity come to light and are captured by the VAR.

You've already contacted the PIs and attorneys which is great and I understand you're "timing" the exposure, the out of town trip is a great time for the PIs to be in place and to follow her.

On this need to know deal, really, it is not terribly difficult to both focus on the divorce and get the info on the guy and his spouse, as well. I presume he can walk and chew gum at the same time. Just unleash the PI to get the info and your attorney can handle the divorce details.

^^^Exactly !

Without his name you'll never know it is over, and without her giving you the name you can only assume it's still going on. It would be nice to get it, but all you can do now is move yourself out of infidelity and working with what you have. Right now that is working with your legal representation.

One more opinion. The way I see it, her not providing a name and transparency(which is nearly zero effort on her part), the only logical path is "D". Those are the two first steps. Nice-ing you back with coffee is her effort.

It's probably worth making it clear you won't speak another word to her without a name.

One other consideration, she may be researching all the same stuff, but from the cheaters perspective. She may be looking for a VAR or other device. A little extra effort to hide this is probably worth it.

One interesting thing that I mentioned earlier are the attempts by WW to get me to treat her more warmly... In the past 30 hours or so... Offering to get me deodorant because knew i was out (i was and then i got it for myself), offering to get me a coffee from starbucks....

Yeah, the turn-around can be pretty amazing once the BS stops doing the "pick me" dance. Suddenly, the cheater is in "oh shit!" mode.

From what you wrote in your opening post, your WW wasn't looking to change her life or change her circumstances. She sounds grandiose, arrogant, and hostile, like a teenager who's acting out on her parents and taking dares from her friends. Of course, she's an adult and she knows the cost of getting caught.. she just didn't thing she would. And now this bit of "fun" is a threat to her home dynamic, and adolescent pranks are starting to look expensive.

Don't be taken in by her attempts to notice that you're a live human being with feelings. A truly remorseful WS is broken by their own perfidy. The switch flips and they can no longer identify with what they were thinking, and no one is more disappointed and judgmental of them than they are of themselves. They don't care if you look at their phone. Hell, they'll beg you to take the damned thing. They want nothing whatsoever to do with the cheater that they've been. You'll know it if you ever see it. Have faith in that. A part of you wants to be sure that you're not going to miss some kind of sign... but trust your knowledge of this person. If/when she gets there, you'll know it.

Strength to you.

It’s could of hit her that BF is MARRIED with child. That her new perfect life will include step child an ex who will be involved in her life.

That there will be no great vacations by themself he would want stepchild , your WW will be paying her BF ex support, his money will be going to his ex and child.

Her kids With you will hate her. She broke up there happy family ect.

All thing are great at the beginning, before the reality sets in.

BF ex eating steak she and BF eating hot dogs.

Life with you is better then new life with BF. With you she has money, can do what she wants, go on vacations

I think the greater chance is that you catch her talking to fun friend and learning who the AP is and other things from that.

How did it go with Lawyers and PIs today?

I think you're right, Stevesn about finding out about the AP from discussions with her fun girlfriend.

On a total tangent... Does it bother anyone that the cheater on the other side is called the Affair PARTNER?

The term "partner" drives me up a fucking wall!! PARTNER!??! That's what I'm supposed to be and to give that fucking piece of shit (or skank if it's a woman) the title of PARTNER!?!?! NO FUCKING WAY!

It's just really hard to face what happened and then hear that term used that way. It brings up a lot of rage in me.

Sorry, I'm just still obviously dealing with all of this, but... i don't know. Feels so wrong to me. So offensive. I guess the term makes sense. It just make me want to go off the rails, find this "partner" and do some damage. ya know?

You don't have to call him a partner. Call him whatever you want. Many betrayed husbands refer to him as a POSOM. Piece of shit other man.