SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

she can reject it because she is broken

you need to limit contact to co parenting and finance

that is the consequenc of what she has done

you don''t have to be there when she picks up her stuff , but you should make sure that someone you trust is there to keep an eye on what she takes

detachment is the way you will feel better no contact equals no new hurts

[This message edited by Brandon808 at 7:34 AM, January 27th, 2013 (Sunday)]

Meanwhile, she says, "I know I am not coming back home, but we have to be a family. Things will be okay with all of us if we keep making an effort and take each day and event as it comes. I know it's easier said than done."

This is possibly one of the most common mistakes people make when divorcing.

Divorce is not an alternative to marriage. It’s a termination of marriage. You and WW (then ex-wife) will always be the children’s parents but you two will format two separate families. If done correctly the kids will feel fine in both environments and you and WW will be great co-parents. You will set aside differences to meet the kid’s requirements and needs.

Look – It might be hard to contemplate but chances are that IF you divorce then 1-2 years from now you will be dating. Chances are that 3 years from now you will be seeing someone seriously. Maybe seriously enough to introduce to the kids and maybe even to spend Thanksgiving and holidays together. Chances are that person will be divorced and possibly with kids. So think Christmas morning 2018 with you and your kids, new wife and her kids, her ex and his new GF (and possibly her kids) along with your ex with her new man and maybe even his kids sounds like a “nice family day”?

Get the message across to her ASAP: “We will be co-parents but the family pattern for our children will be changed forever”

Brandon808:

you need to limit contact to co parenting and finance

that is the consequenc of what she has done

you don't have to be there when she picks up her stuff , but you should make sure that someone you trust is there to keep an eye on what she takes

detachment is the way you will feel better no contact equals no new hurts

I'm pretty sure I'm with you there. I sure don't feel like writing her any long letters, and I absolutely don't want to help her move. I will tell her, certainly -- even though I've made this point already -- that "H" had better not set foot in my place. Also, I plan to ask for a list of what she's taking -- not that I think she'd swipe my gold-plated lima bean collection or something, but just so I don't have to learn the hard way that she's taken something I need.

I'm also less and less sold on the co-parenting thing, if only because my son has said he's not really fretting about our split because it's pointless worrying about things he can't control. We have an appointment tomorrow, and my plan (regardless of what happens to the best laid plans...) is to talk about finances -- i.e., how she's gonna help support our kid (given that she's handed me $420, total, since 12/10); and also, more importantly, to say, ""I can't do these sessions anymore. The idea of coming here for an hour every week, sitting here and looking at this woman who is basically *everything* to me, even though she wants no part of me, is awful. It hurts too much, and I can't do it."

Bigger:

This is possibly one of the most common mistakes people make when divorcing.

Divorce is not an alternative to marriage. It's a termination of marriage. You and WW (then ex-wife) will always be the children's parents but you two will format two separate families. If done correctly the kids will feel fine in both environments and you and WW will be great co-parents. You will set aside differences to meet the kid's requirements and needs.

That's the hope regarding the co-parenting counseling... except that, per my last post, I plan on saying I can't participate in those sessions anymore, basically because it's too painful. I'm applying the principle of putting on *my* oxygen mask first -- can't remember which of you folks said that.

In any case, my finances, in particular, are so completely up in the air that I have no idea where my kid will even live. (My wife's new place is $800; my place is $1,600. Means that her housing costs stay the same as before, while mine double....)

I would think that we'd *have* to sit down and somehow hash out some kind of financial "thing" for the purpose of keeping this kid supported. Granted, I'd also sure like him to get a job.

Look - It might be hard to contemplate but chances are that IF you divorce then 1-2 years from now you will be dating. Chances are that 3 years from now you will be seeing someone seriously.

I imagine most if not all of us here have had similar thoughts, but: At least right now, the idea of really giving "all of me" to another person, knowing that this other person could *also* take a huge dump all over "all of me," is terrifying. Not relevant to what you're saying here, but still.

Maybe seriously enough to introduce to the kids and maybe even to spend Thanksgiving and holidays together. Chances are that person will be divorced and possibly with kids. So think Christmas morning 2018 with you and your kids, new wife and her kids, her ex and his new GF (and possibly her kids) along with your ex with her new man and maybe even his kids sounds like a "nice family day"?

Even though that all sounds pretty awful, I have no doubt you're talking sense.

Get the message across to her ASAP: "We will be co-parents but the family pattern for our children will be changed forever"

That, plus it's up to us to control the damage. My son is now seeming pretty resigned to the whole thing, so co-parenting might not need to be an issue at this point -- I don't know.

I *really* hope I don't feel this shitty in a year. I hope I don't care *what* she does by then

Smoky, guarantee you won't feel like this a year from now.

How do I know? Because you are here!! You are listening to the advice here. Even if you don't know it yet you are taking baby steps every day to get out of this hell hole!!!

It's way too early, but one day you will look back and have your "aha" moment of how far you have come.

And because you will be healing, all along, you will NOT give a shit about her. Nope, won't matter.

Just you and your son. And like Bigger said some where down the line maybe someone new??

Don't be there when she moves, if you don't want to. Can your son be there, just to oversee? Some one you trust?

Don't want to go to the co-parenting classes? Don't. She can't f'n make you!! I think that you are in a little different place, as your son is 18yrs, not a little one. So your parenting decisions are probably different. Not that we ever stop parenting, but you get what I mean.

Hang in there buddy. One breath at a time.

Sending hugs((((S))))

still2:

Smoky, guarantee you won't feel like this a year from now.

Don't be there when she moves, if you don't want to. Can your son be there, just to oversee? Some one you trust?

Don't want to go to the co-parenting classes? Don't. She can't f'n make you!! I think that you are in a little different place, as your son is 18yrs, not a little one. So your parenting decisions are probably different. Not that we ever stop parenting, but you get what I mean.

As always, thanks for your thoughtful comments.

I honestly think the co-parenting classes are pointless, partly because my kid seems to be doing a hell of a lot better than I expected, but mainly because *I'm* all over the map, which includes what I said in my last post about wanting to discontinue lessons because seeing her there, and knowing she's not in my corner, is too painful.

I was hoping to say that at our session tonight, and ask for way more money -- I mean, my cable's about to be shut off, which means no wi-fi, which means I gotta drive an hour to the office instead of working at home -- but... this morning she texted, saying that she has a "wicked cough," saw a doctor, got antibiotics, etc., and won't be able to make it. Had she texted me yesterday, I could have canceled the appointment, but since therapists get pissy when you cancel with less than 24 hours' notice, I get to go alone, *and* I get to cough up the co-pay. So with my "strategy" completely upended by my wife's (physical) illness, my plan -- to the extent that I can carry it out -- is to unload on this guy and, well, tattle on my wife. Hell, I may never see him again anyway (at least not after I tell them both, in session, how and why I want to discontinue the sessions).

My wife, by the way, has had something of a hacking cough since I've known her. She stopped smoking shortly before we began dating in 1982 -- knowing that since I have asthma and allergies, she'd be a lot less appealing to me as a smoker -- and she never got rid of the cough. You can hear her for miles. It's how I knew she arrived at the session last week. So I don't think she's lying about tonight, though I don't think her cough is much of an excuse. It sounds like another "running away" symptom to me.

That said, I don't remember if I've mentioned this about her (among the 800,000 words I've written in this forum): In the last 15 months or so, there have been, I would say, two major triggers (other than "H") for her:

* She learned late in 2012 that she had a very mild, slow-growing form of follicular lymphoma. It's cancer, so it's inherently bad, but it grows so slowly that she's not even being treated for it. Her oncologist sees her every few months to monitor the growth -- which, as of the other day, was "none" (although she does have anemia, which we've known for years, and which clearly affects her breathing; she was given a couple of prescriptions for asthma a couple years back... but she stopped taking them because they affect her singing voice -- you know, because those shows have to come first!).

Naturally, she freaked out pretty good about the lymphoma, and obviously it's on her mind all the time. It's on *my* mind all the time. She actually accused me, a month or so after the diagnosis, of not actually loving her, but just seeing her as a meal ticket. (She teaches three-year-olds, so you have an idea how little she makes; however, the pressure of being the "breadwinner" while I was out of work was, she says, a major factor in her decision to leave me.) I asked her, as kindly as possible, if she'd lost her mind. She basically said, "Yeah, I know you love me." But clearly she was, and is, very scared. Her doctor doesn't seem worried, but my wife decided, after reading on the Internet that she has seven to ten years left, that she's gonna die, like, next Thursday or something.

* She turned 50 last May. Her dad died at 51 of -- as she described it to the co-parenting guy last week -- "complications from diabetes." Hell, yeah, there were complications from diabetes, but let's leave out the two strokes in his forties, plus the heart attack that actually killed him, all due (as was the diabetes, I'm pretty sure) to a lifetime of food addiction that had him peaking at over 400 pounds at one point. But my wife thinks, "Dad died young, so I'm next." And she wonders (as do I) how her not-at-all-recovering alcoholic mother has lasted till 70.

So the lymphoma, and her nearness in age to her father's highest achievement, have her worrying about her own mortality, and I guess she told herself, "I'm never gonna get rich with this guy; I've gotten all I can from him," so now she's with someone she thinks will provide for her in ways her daddy and I never could. And who's to say she's wrong? (Course, my mom's dad died at 47, and she's still kicking at 81....)

But what I'm saying is, this sounds a lot like a midlife crisis to me -- late-life, I guess she might say. Doesn't mean she'll change her mind and come back to me after realizing this (along with the fact that she's being generally whacko lately), but I guess it helps me to put something of a label on it.

You sound really good today, Smoky. I hope you're taking care of yourself.

h0peless:

You sound really good today, Smoky. I hope you're taking care of yourself.

I'm trying, thanks. I slipped a little last night and had "comfort food" -- probably not *really* comfort food, but something that was designed to make *me* feel better, even though it's probably deadly: crappy frozen pizza.

I haven't walked in a couple of days, but I'll keep trying every day. It's still hard to get out of bed, period, even though my sleep is just wretched. (An otherwise insomniac friend suggested trying this "Wheybolic" powder from GNC. Says he takes about three-quarters of a scoop in a glass of water at bedtime, and now he sleeps all night, doesn't turn over much, doesn't get too hot or cold, and feels rested. True, he's also scraping, like, two milligrams of seroquel off a tablet each night.)

I've been in touch with a couple of men's groups, and I'm going to start attending one on Monday; we'll see about the other.

But I wish I knew how I sound "good." I sure don't feel it.

Met with our co-parenting counselor last night -- sans wife, who, as I mentioned, called in sick. Before I even sat down I said, "I don't want to talk about my kid. I want to tell you what led to our coming here in the first place." And I pretty much unloaded: the affair, the horrific face-to-face encounters, my wife's "theater career," our six-month hiatus in '83-'84, her history of molestation and growing up poor, some of the odd decisions she's made as a parent, "H" and how I would truly, genuinely get a kick out of removing his genitals with something rusty, etc.

Periodically he'd shake his head and whisper, "Whew...." At the end he said, "She really needs therapy," which ain't news. (Sure, it's just *my* side, but I didn't say anything that wasn't true.) He said, among other things, that he was sure we'd never show up again, given that she had asked him to "tell me what to do" (regarding our son) rather than being willing to work on the process with both him and me; and that while it was easy to see how thoroughly fucked up and miserable I was, he picked up on basically nothing from her -- i.e., she wasn't feeling anything for me, one way or the other. That, too, wasn't news, but it sure hurt.

I told him I'd give my current therapist some more time, but if I still wasn't "feelin' it," I'd contact him -- he seems more active and intuitive. I dunno -- maybe they're both quacks... or both great.

In any case, I haven't heard from my wife -- e.g., "How did the session go?" Yeah, I know she's sick, but I'm pretty sure the counselor was right: she'd bailed on the whole thing when he didn't give her any easy answers all tied up in a bow. I also told him that while I know she loves the kid and is concerned, she's more about wanting to be "seen to be trying to do the right things" than actually doing them -- there's just no room in her mind for anything but herself and "H." (The counselor was amazed when I said that, according to her, she's only talked to her family about all this "a little.")

Meanwhile, I've drafted an e-mail -- haven't sent it yet, 'cause I'm not sure how I feel about it, saying that while we both know the kid needs to get work, the fact is, he's *not* working; and that while her housing costs (now that she's about to start paying rent again) will stay the same, mine will double, so I think a fair amount for her to contribute to his housing, food, etc., is $800. (I think, honestly, she should contribute more, but I haven't broken it down, and I know that, financially, she's going to be up shit creek anyway -- when is she not?) I'm not saying anything harsh, but I'm trying not to be a weenie.

Besides that, and other stuff vis-a-vis the kid, I really have no intention of contacting her. No heartfelt letters, etc.

[This message edited by Smoky at 11:32 AM, January 31st (Thursday)]

I e-mailed my wife, saying that while we both know our son should be working, the fact is, he's not, so I think a fair amount to request from her is $800 a month. I told her that once she's back into a routine of paying rent each month -- she signs her new lease today -- she should bear in mind that her housing costs will stay the same as they were when she lived with us, but my housing costs are doubling, and that I don't know how much longer we can keep our place.

Her reply, you might say, was "bristly": "I did offer to make a go of the apartment and try to find a roommate. Didn't I?"

I don't remember anything about a roommate -- just her "proposing" to move in with our son. But I do remember reacting angrily to that suggestion, which means that hey, maybe she *did* mention a roommate... and that my suspicion was that the roommate would be "H."

"You can remove me from the cell phone and car insurance if that will save money," she said. "I do still pay a significant amount for health insurance." I'm perfectly happy to reimburse her for our shares of the health coverage, especially since I'm using the mental health benefits up the wazoo lately -- thanks, wife. The car insurance... well, gee, she's driving the 18-year-old clunker; I'm driving the 2010. Removing her from the cell plan basically takes something like $15 off the monthly bill... while bumping *her* bill from $0 to about $75.

Oh, and she also suggested looking into Obamacare.

She asked if I've tried to work more -- I work 24 hours a week right now, by contract, and bring home more than she does, but of course that wouldn't be good enough for her. I did, however, speak with the temp people who'd placed me in various, low-paying gigs before I got my current job.

She asked if the kid had tried to get work, and well, he just doesn't. But that's kind of the point I made early on: he's not working, but the expenses still exist.

"I agree that it is a big load for you to support him on your own," she offered, "but I cant hand over half my income without asking if there have been any attempts for either of you to make money or explore other avenues."

That grumped me pretty good -- I don't notice *her* offering to find other ways to make money. (I imagine, at least until his wife cleans him out, that Sugar Daddy can help her....) But mainly, what she's saying there is that providing even remotely adequate support for her son is contingent on me working harder. I agree that he needs a job, but I've always worked hard (when employed), you know?

Oh, she also offered to take over the newer car "and give him food money." Right. That's a $375 payment, plus higher car insurance, plus whatever she thinks "food money" is; I'm not sure how that would be much different from whatever she'd give *me* for the kid. It might even be *more*.

I said, "Though you probably wouldn't look forward to this, we should sit down and discuss all this in detail. I'm not trying to ruin you financially, and arguing about money via e-mail is not going to do anybody any good."

I'm just amazed at all this. Sure, I can find some on-the-side work -- I'm trying -- but it all goes back to what I'm now sure is the main reason she's been so "unhappy" with me: She's not being provided for as much as she wants to be. (Well, hell, neither am I.) Daddy couldn't do it. Smoky couldn't do it. Now it's up to Sugar Daddy "H." (Gee, if she wanted a Kindle bad enough, you'd think *he* could've afforded one for Valentine's Day.) Who's next?

(I should add that since she makes at least $18 an hour and works full time, I'm not sure how $800 constitutes half her income -- though, certainly the medical coverage and taxes take a healthy bite. I just find it interesting that she somehow doesn't expect "half her income" to go to living expenses for her kid -- I'm guessing that at least half *my* income does. I end up with nothing at the end of the month; why shouldn't she?)

[This message edited by Smoky at 10:25 AM, February 1st (Friday)]

Wife's reply to my last e-mail: "Yes I will talk with you. The amount of $800 really caught me off guard! Believe me, if I had that money I would want [our son] to have it but he is 18 and needs to not rely solely on us. maybe I can come by on Saturday?"

First off, I *don't* believe her. If she had that money, she'd want to spend it on cool stuff.

Today she texts: "This is moving day and things are a bit disorganized: people wanting me to pick stuff up, etc. I need to drop by today to get some little stuff. I really want to talk about the money when I'm in a better head-space to listen. So can I pick up stuff today and talk finances tomorrow?"

For crying out loud. A "better head-space to listen." Since when? You know, we've spoken, one on one, about our marriage and our split *twice*: the night I learned about the affair, and the night she came over to tell me the *marriage* is over. Listening has not been on her agenda.

What I think is that she basically wants to low-ball the hell out of me. She thinks I'm her adversary, and she's doing her best to make me the bad guy. (The 180 says more or less the same thing: "Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable." Actually, she has said very little at all throughout all this; don't think she'd start now.)

Got that message over three hours ago; haven't heard anything since. Tried to nap for a while, but the constant awful thoughts kept bleeding through.

I would not be too unpleased if she failed to show up tonight -- or tomorrow, because, frankly, I want to watch the Super Bowl. Basically I just want her to cough up the dough so we can *breathe*; I can live without the discussion, at the moment.

(Lord... I just heard a loud cough outside. I always think it's gonna be her. Probably isn't, though.)

Think I mentioned that I'm going to attend a support group on Monday. Earlier in the day I'm going to meet with a guy who runs a different group to see if we can come up with a price I can afford -- $180 a month, I'm afraid, isn't doable.

I'm still getting all kinds of emotional support from friends and family, and from you folks here -- and it's invaluable. I still feel like hell, though.

I also went to Peggy Vaughan's site and am trying to read a lot of that stuff, such as excerpts from "The Monogamy Myth" (which I ordered on Amazon). That stuff is about recovering from affairs per se; I don't know if it addresses recovering from ending relationships. The material I've read from that site seem more about communication between spouses who still hope to work on their marriage after the affair, as opposed to one spouse who does and one who doesn't.

[This message edited by Smoky at 8:26 PM, February 2nd (Saturday)]

Oh, my silly wife!

She had "consented" to come over Saturday to talk finances. And that night she texted: "Not gonna make it over tonight. Hope to get there about 10 or so tomorrow. Write down amounts, etc."

Not gonna show! Surprise!

So just before noon yesterday: "Pretty sick again today. Are you gonna be home later?"

"Yeah," I reply, "sometime after the game...."

Just before six she texted: "I am at the apartment. Is it OK if I go in?"

I say "OK." I really mean "No," but on the other hand, I don't want to be here while she's moving, and I can't have it both ways.

I'm walking to my car at 7:45. She texted: "I got the stuff I need. I am in your parking spot and there isn't anything on the street even around the corner... dont think I will be able to wait."

Immediately I tell her I'm on my way home, and... she doesn't wait. Of course. Hot date, or what? I mean, just how crammed is her agenda?

Is she playing games, or afraid of actually encountering me -- or just wanting to avoid me? Says she "really wants" to address the money thing, which obviously is a huge lie. (Clearly wanted to make sure to get out of Dodge before I got there soon enough to follow her to her new love nest.)

I have no idea what she took with her, but I do know that she left no kind of money....

Meanwhile, in a few minutes I meet with the head of a men's group to see if I can work out a payment thing -- it costs $180 a month, which I told him I can't afford. (This group was recommended by my therapist.) Right after that I go to therapy. Tonight I go to a different men's group. Thursday, maybe, I go to the group I'm meeting about today.

Whee yay woo-hoo. I'm havin' a ball.

Got a text from my wife, just before seven, saying "I'm on my way." She meant "to the co-parenting appointment." She hadn't seen my e-mail saying that there *are* no more appointments in the foreseeable future, so I called her to let her know. She then offered to come over to talk finances.

Well, she got here and we started talking about finances 'n' shit, and it wasn't going great -- not adversarial or snippy or anything, just "uncomfortable." I couldn't concentrate. She asked why there were no more co-parenting things scheduled. I said, "He didn't expect to see us again anyway." "Why?" she said. "Because I was sick? And he figured I'd stop going?" In a nutshell: yeah. I told her what he said: that he thought she was interested in the quick fix, not the process. "Do *you* think that's the case?" "I dunno," I said. "Yeah. Kinda."

After a while I... well, I pretty much violated every tenet the 180 has to offer. I said, "Look, I really don't want to ambush you... but I don't think *I* can do it anymore, either." (The appointments, I mean. And by "ambush" I meant "lay my entire trip on her despite the pretext of 'talking finances.'") And I said the thing I keep saying: Sitting there, seeing her, knowing she means everything to me but doesn't want any part of me... it's *murder*. Hurts too much. At this point the tears started -- mine, I mean.

I said, "We've talked about what's going on between us *twice*: the night I found out about 'H,' and the night you came here to drop the bomb. I don't have anything prepared to say, but there's so much more *to* say." And in pretty short order, I was fucking *wailing*, like I hadn't done since probably childhood. She was crying also, periodically holding me (which did not upset me any). I honestly don't remember that much of what was said. Among other things, though, she said that it really is horribly painful for her to see what our son and I are going through, knowing that she's the one putting us through it.

I was basically unintelligible for about half an hour, then cried on and off after that. She said *she* had spent several days and nights crying like that lately.

The short version is, she really doesn't know what she wants. (surprise!) She's not completely opposed to us trying again -- we'd have to take it slow. Well, I kind of anticipated that -- i.e., if she *were* interested in being together, that we'd have to start out slow. Her biggest concern regarding "us" is the horrific financial situation we're both in. For one thing, she just signed a year lease on this "cottage" she just moved into. Brill-fucking-iant. Had to be a *year*.

We spoke a lot about how we feel about each other, the situation, etc. She said that she and "H" are "growing apart," that he's had a horrible life, a horrible marriage, etc. I told her I failed to pity him, and indeed that I've never hated anything or anybody as much as I hate "H." She said that they're still "together," that she's not "over him," but she can see that it's gonna end sooner or later.

Nothing was settled -- financially or otherwise. I just told her I need for us to be able to talk, have lunch or dinner sometimes, etc.

I also said I thought some part of her believes she doesn't deserve to be loved so much, and she agreed. That might have been key right there.

Anyway, she thinks the talk was a "turning point," and so do I. We were able to be honest with each other in ways that we *never* have in the past. I have no idea where this is headed, if anywhere. I don't feel worse than I did, at least. I just know that we're both hurting, both confused, and... hell, who knows? She may just go, "Yeah, well, fuck it. Adios." Or maybe not. I just don't know.

No idea how to feel about this. Am I setting myself up for even worse pain? Am I screwing up, even entertaining whatever notions I'm entertaining (beyond the stuff I entertain anyway)?

This is all so... I dunno what.

Smoky,

You need to take a day, or two, to process all you just went thru. Just take it slow.

I am not gonna answer your questions right now, as I think last night was just too emotional.

Just sending hugs for now.

Some one with more wisdom will be better able to guide you. I would just be giving my opinion, and right now you need wisdom, not my 2 cents

Modified from a tag line here:

She is no longer my wife.

Start calling her your X. Start detaching or you are in for pain on top of pain on top of pain.

These crumbs will be enough for you right now because you're in an immense amount of pain. But trust me, in time they will not be enough and you will waste another 1, 5, 10 years on an unremorseful spouse.

Do not try to save your marriage at all costs. The cost is too high. Far too high. Doing it this way will lead to multiple DDs and whatever love/goodwill you ever had will be ground right into the ground.

Your situation is not unique nor special. So many of us have been right where you are now.

Still2:

You need to take a day, or two, to process all you just went thru. Just take it slow.

I am not gonna answer your questions right now, as I think last night was just too emotional.

Just sending hugs for now.

Some one with more wisdom will be better able to guide you. I would just be giving my opinion, and right now you need wisdom, not my 2 cents

Hey, either way, I appreciate your input and concern. Thank you.

I'm still freaking out a little, and I haven't been able to settle to anything today -- I've done about half a day's work, and I guess I'll finish up tonight.

But, like every day, I'll spend the evening thinking about where she is, and what she's up to. Tonight: rehearsal. Beyond that....

And I'm still in that rut of analyzing everything she says, doesn't say, does, or doesn't do. I just hope, as I said earlier, that I'm not setting myself up for something even worse.

StrongButBroken:

Modified from a tag line here:

She is no longer my wife.

She is no longer my best friend.

Repeat until it sticks.

Start calling her your X. Start detaching or you are in for pain on top of pain on top of pain.

These crumbs will be enough for you right now because you're in an immense amount of pain. But trust me, in time they will not be enough and you will waste another 1, 5, 10 years on an unremorseful spouse.

Do not try to save your marriage at all costs. The cost is too high. Far too high. Doing it this way will lead to multiple DDs and whatever love/goodwill you ever had will be ground right into the ground.

Your situation is not unique nor special. So many of us have been right where you are now.

Thanks. I feel as though I'm already in pain on top of pain on top of pain, and then some, but I'm not pretending that there's no more pain around the corner. Believe me, I'm not assuming that we're back together, by any stretch. There's loads of rocky terrain, and I do realize I might be setting myself up for some *new* awfulness. That's not my intention, of course....

I've tried to detach, to no avail. Maybe it's still too new -- I don't know. I am getting, like, as much help as is humanly possible.

As I've said, the worst part is still having hope. I just have to see what happens. I'm have no doubt that you're telling me the truth.

Smoky,

My heart just breaks for you

So now I will add my 2 cents

I've tried to

detach

No, sweetie, you haven't. And that's OK. Most of us have done the same thing.

BUT, she IS moving on, without you. She's got a one year lease right? That does not sound like someone who wants her M back!! It's still all about her. Hell now she evens wants to throw her son out there (even if he is 18), just to pay less??

Please, please, please do ONE thing to make yourself feel better for 5 mins. Just for you. Yes, it is hard, but you will never move out of this place of sadness if you don't do something different.

I so understand analyzing every word. BTDT.

Let me bore you with a bit of my story:

My FWH had a LTEA. I found out while we were separated for family issues. I twisted myself inside out for this man! 2 yrs on my own, no SI, just asked questions, shut up when it was too much for HIM! This year said I'm done. BAM!!! after 3 yrs the man wanted MC! We finally worked thru the A. Now working on M stuff. After almost 4 long years I am learning to detach. 4 yrs! Told H and MC just the other day that I am very close to being done! sure as shit got FWH's attention!! And our 39th anniversary is next week. Never thought I would be able to walk away, but I now know I can. Oddly enough it will not be because of the A.

So, my loooong winded point ( ) is that YOU will get there. One step at a time, buddy.

YOU HAVE TO WANT IT FOR YOU!

Sending hugs.

Still2:

I've tried to detach

No, sweetie, you haven't. And that's OK. Most of us have done the same thing.

I don't know how to respond to that. I will say I have not *succeeded* at detaching -- I guess I really don't know how. My mind is just so *full* of her.

BUT, she IS moving on, without you. She's got a one year lease right? That does not sound like someone who wants her M back!! It's still all about her. Hell now she evens wants to throw her son out there (even if he is 18), just to pay less??

I don't know what she wants. *She* doesn't know what she wants. She did say the other night that she wished we'd had this discussion before she signed the one-year lease, but that could be just talk.

Please don't interpret this as me defending her, because I'm not pleased about her new place either, but: She teaches three-year-olds, and she makes about $18 an hour. That seems to be more than other preschools usually pay, but in the area where we live, it's peanuts. I don't know how $800 constitutes "half my income," as she said in an e-mail last week when I asked for that amount for our son. I do know, however, that her finances are even worse than mine, and that she's amazingly lucky to get any dwelling in this area that doesn't amount to renting a room in someone else's house. There's no way she would have found a place she could come close to affording that would also have space for our son.

That said... as far as I'm concerned, she shouldn't have made the move anyway, so it's hard for me to be sympathize with her a hell of a lot about the apartment.

If she wanted to badly enough, there are ways to get out of the lease -- especially since she signed it less than a week ago. I don't know what these ways *are*, but research can be done. Granted... I don't expect her to try and get out of it, even if the only reason is that she feels she needs her "own space" -- she's never lived by herself before. On the other hand, she said the other night that she's "lonely as hell," so who knows? I daresay -- again, if she actually wanted to move back home (not that she does) -- that we could find someone to sublet the place. There are ways out.

Please, please, please do ONE thing to make yourself feel better for 5 mins. Just for you. Yes, it is hard, but you will never move out of this place of sadness if you don't do something different.

I guess I just don't know what that would entail. I mean... I'm doing the therapy thing, attending a couple of groups, taking my walks, making my trips to Mom's and seeing friends, etc. Nothing holds my attention long enough. You know, there's that thing about "One day you'll notice you've gone five whole minutes without thinking about her, then 10, then an hour, and so on," but that's just not happening. Granted, I've got a *bit* of an obsessive nature, but even so....

Let me bore you with a bit of my story:

Boredom: not an issue here.

My FWH had a LTEA. I found out while we were separated for family issues. I twisted myself inside out for this man! 2 yrs on my own, no SI, just asked questions, shut up when it was too much for HIM! This year said I'm done. BAM!!! after 3 yrs the man wanted MC! We finally worked thru the A. Now working on M stuff. After almost 4 long years I am learning to detach. 4 yrs! Told H and MC just the other day that I am very close to being done! sure as shit got FWH's attention!! And our 39th anniversary is next week. Never thought I would be able to walk away, but I now know I can. Oddly enough it will not be because of the A.

Holy shit... I mean, I'm two months into this thing, and it *feels* like at least four years. I admire you for reaching a point of "feeling done" *at all*. I absolutely can't imagine feeling "done" with my wife, even after this.

YOU HAVE TO WANT IT FOR YOU!

This is what has been the big problem: what I've been wanting. In a nutshell, it's "wife comes back, we work everything out, love conquers all," etc. I'm just nowhere near a place where I can say, "Fuck this, and fuck her... good riddance to bad garbage."

I don't *want* this hope -- in some ways it's paralyzing. Right now I'm at the same point I was several weeks ago when she sent that text saying she had no answers for me yet. And all she's done since Tuesday is say that she's "relieved" that we had that discussion, and that she wants the kid and me to see her place soon. Indeed that doesn't sound like someone who wants to *vacate* her place.

And I'm afraid to try and goose things along at all, for fear of "rushing" her; like, I feel like I can't even initiate a phone call or e-mail/text conversation. But I want to say, "We really should touch base frequently during the week, and we ought to get together at least once a week to talk about 'where we're at.'" And I probably *will* say something along those lines... but not until *she* has initiated the latest contact.

I know it's stupid, basing my actions and decisions on whatever comes next from her, but it feels like the ball is in her court, and I'm just not ready to abandon the court.

Smoky,

To quote one of my personal heroes...

"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try."

You can do this, man.

but it feels like the ball is in her court

No, the ball is in YOUR court. You just don't know it yet. This shit is NOT for the faint-of-heart, Smoky. You WILL get there, it just takes time.

I (and many others) know the paralyzing fear we BS's go thru. Like I said it took me all this time to learn how to detach. Do I love him? Most definitely. Do I want to stay married to him? Yep I do. BUT I am now stating MY wants/needs. And I tell him he can choose to work with me or not. I am OK either way. This did not happen quickly (obviously)

But she should not be the one calling the shots, making the decisions. Well, actually she made hers. To leave.

I am sure you have read all the stories here of the WS giving the BS the "boo-fuckin'-hoo" stories. "The I don't know who/what I want". "I need to be by myself to get my head on straight". All of that shit. Same story, different players.

Can you tell me ONE thing that you can do today/tomorrow, for yourself (and maybe son) that has NOTHING to do with WS?? Just one small thing?

"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try

^^this. h0opeless is spot-on.

YOU CAN DO!!!