SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ok I have really been struggling with some of this. Especially the suggestion that he wants to work in the garage while BabyRazz is inside playing and/or watching TV. I really don't see an issue with this (and I know I am in an extremely small minority here) ASSUMING that he would come in every 15 - 30 minutes and check on her to see where she was and what she was getting into. With all my kids I was not always in the same room with them and sometimes even outside cutting grass or something but I would check in on them frequently so that I was comfortable that they were OK. And with multiple kids you have the added advantage that a fight could break out at any time, especially when one is ADHD and prone to outbursts.

But this!!!!!

When she was 4 weeks old I had to throw a bridal shower for my sister. (Love her but the timing was pretty awful) The day of the shower it was 98 degrees, and the place we were throwing the shower didn't have A/C so Crazz offered for her to stay home with her in our A/C. I left for 6 hours, and he took her in her carrier out in our garage and worked on his car.

To this day he will still not accept how horrifying that was. Their little bodies can't regulate temperature, and it could have been a disaster.

Then there's the time when she was 2 and he let her close a heavy metal gate on her own at the park and she lost the tip of her finger while he was playing with someone's dog.

She fell off the couch ALL the time before she was 1 because he was really into what he was watching while he was watching her while I was grabbing two seconds for myself.

So yeah, really shitty precedent of putting her life in accidental danger.

This totally changes the situation. If she could be out in the heat then she could have gone to the shower. She lost the tip of her finger??!?? She fell off the couch more than once?? This is serious. Wow! I am really surprised he is that inattentive that she really has gotten hurt.

Earlier on in this thread, someone posted that maybe your fear of having to co-parent with CRazz might be preventing you from making the decision to leave. Well if you do make that decision I strongly recommend that you have all the documentation and evidence in hand and use it to write up a custody arrangement that you can be comfortable with. I don't want to start what-iffing just suggesting that you not let the fear control you but rather you control the situation with documentation. And please understand - I hope it doesn't come to this. I really don't. You've posted some really good things in the past too and I hope you guys can work it out and get through it all. I'm pulling for you both. At least you know you are working your hardest. He clearly needs to step it up on his end.

Wow, truthsetmefree, that was great! Glad you posted. I could relate to a lot of it. I think it's a common dynamic and and people have no idea what is going on or why they feel frustrated or angry…. or whatever most of the time and it wasn't their emotion to begin with.

One of the things that worked in my favour, and that's not really as positive as it sounds -- it was hell getting to this place -- was that my husband ended his affair on his own. His choice. That got some of the ball rolling. The ante was revved up during his affair, not after, as many other spouses of p/a experience.

I had hit my limit, dropped the ball and walked off the field. When I did that, even his affair wasn't as appealing anymore because I stopped being an (unknowing) participant in the tug of war. Where's the fun in that? After the shock of dday wore off, I was back to that place again and that brought on another level of growth.

He was c/a and p/a so didn't switch to aggressive aggressive behavior (that's my style). He was more subtle and sneakier than that. I was lucky if heard what was bothering him 2 weeks after the fact and by then I didn't care anymore.

I'm not sure if I agree with levels of intimacy not being achievable though. I've seen that's possible. My husband really blew wide open emotionally after dday and now he has access to a lot of emotions and wants to talk about them in the moment. It's interesting getting used to that as the new normal. I'm the one that's behind on that path now.

I think without an affair and a dday all the trauma with that, he wouldn't have changed. And I wouldn't have either. But I still have a very hard time being and observer and not a participant..….perhaps why I'm posting on this thread again

I feel for you Jrazz. It's a hard cycle. Another way I was lucky (again not the right word), I didn't have kids to worry about. That's a whole other level to it all.

More hugs and strength for today.

DixieD - glad you posted! Two things -

I'm not sure if I agree with levels of intimacy not being achievable though. I've seen that's possible. My husband really blew wide open emotionally after dday and now he has access to a lot of emotions and wants to talk about them in the moment.

This is so encouraging! (And so happy for you!!) I've seen more and more of this in my own relationship (and I do believe it is largely because I have become safer for H - if only because I, too, dropped the ball and walked off that field). I didn't mean to suggest that it was entirely impossible. I should clarify - for me, I had the hardest time giving up MY idea of it (which was also tainted because I equated intimacy with safety). I also have a very hard time with clinging. So, yeah...I guess maybe those things were MY lesson.

Secondly, the observer/participant aspect - I meant that specifically in regards to when the p/a issues are playing out. Not as a whole in the relationship.

Hey everyone. I've been trying to take the time and REALLY read what everyone has posted when I get the chance. I just can't believe how much love and insight there is here - I'm so grateful.

http://www.angriesout.com/couples8.htm

I FINALLY got around to reading this - it is amazing. I'm going to ask Crazz to read it with me because it puts things in such a clear, effective way and really sheds a lot of light on this whole situation.

Answering the question of whether Vrazz's safety is truly in question around him - I'm not sure how to answer that. You really have to be here to see it. He loves her with every fiber of his being, but his FOO issues coupled with his ADHD et al make him a scary person to leave a child with, plain and simple. He's not risking her health and safety every second of the day, there are just these moments of complete and utter lack of judgement that I cannot begin to understand. He was watching her at a friend's house and she was swinging and he went to adjust her booty so she wouldn't fall off the swing, but he was doing it one handed (no time to put the beer down) and accidentally shoved her off the swing and onto her head. I hear her screaming from inside the house and run out to her (more like teleported) and she's on the ground sobbing and he is already mad at ME. "SHE was squirming. I was trying to help her. It was an ACCIDENT!!!" I didn't even notice him until I realized that he was raging to his defense as I was consoling Vrazz in my arms. She was fine, just scared and a little sore. I just cared about how she felt, and he just cared about getting in trouble - and I have actually programmed myself not to address my anger at his carelessness until I have cooled off JUST to keep him from flying to the defense, but he does it anyway.

We had a lovely mother's day - he and Vrazz made breakfast and a photo-shirt. It was a lot of effort and I think that's all because he can feel me detaching. It's so hard to see him panic to pull it together because there is always a part of me that wants to give us another chance, but there are those concerns which feel more etched in stone than the "new" behaviors that arise in crises and ebb after the panic subsides.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 1:52 PM, May 12th (Monday)]

ADD can account for a lot, JRazz. I live with a man who is diagnosed ADD, but doesn't take drugs for it. He thinks it's kept under control by his diet, and I admit, he certainly is better if he stays away from all forms of gluten.

My S/O's ADD drives me CRAZY!

His efforts to "help" around the house drive me crazy. While he can be the sweetest, most loving person, sometimes his help is laughable. He owns every tool known to man, but can never get around to actually using them or if he does, the results are mind-blowing! Not in a good way. Luckily, I'm good with tools.

His impulsivity drives me crazy. For instance, this weekend we have 16 people to dinner at the country place. The menu has been set weeks ago, and all our friends have added what they will bring to a spreadsheet that S/O is privy to. What does he do? Goes out and buys 16 baking potatoes and 20 ears of corn, without "remembering" that 1) his friend G is bringing the baking potatoes, 2) corn is not on any of the meal menus, and 3) the corn will be crap by Saturday night, 4) when will I find time to cook the corn, and 5) where in the hell do I put all the other food in the fridge that now holds all the unnecessary vegetables? If this were the only time he has done this, I'd understand. But he does it ALL. THE. TIME. One day I came home to find he'd installed new speakers in our bedroom--by stapling the speaker wire to my newly painted beautiful crown moulding. That one made me do some serious deep breathing. He buys things he doesn't need, so my place gets junked up with all his impulse buys that he uses twice and discards. I have threatened loss of body parts if he starts to junk up my new country place.

His lack of boundaries drive me crazy. I regularly have to murmur "boundaries, honey" to him when he opens his mouth at one of the fundraisers I have to attend and out comes the most freaking inappropriate remark. There is no brake on his mouth. And, like CRazz, he can icily cut you off at the knees if he knows your facts are incorrect. Won't just suck it up! Oh, no, out comes the ADD and the boundaries disappear. Luckily, his boundaries--so far at least--as far as fidelity is concerned appear to be firmly in place, but the inappropriate remarks can extend to women. "Wow, I need sunglasses" is one remark I overheard when he encountered a woman with a bright yellow evening dress. He didn't know the woman from Eve. Oy!

His lack of focus drives me crazy. Every year for four months, every weekend, every evening, I have to listen to "I have to do my taxes". Then, of course, he has to do everything but. He can have a list of twenty things to accomplish any given week, but only accomplish 2, and those are not necessarily the most important ones. He has no idea of how to prioritize--and he will actually actively AVOID doing the most important tasks and the ones that will take the most time. He promises to replace a battery in our home alarm system, but then for months (unless I do it myself), I have to hear "Low system battery" every freaking time I set the alarm. Now, this attribute might be genetic. His mother, probably ADD as well, is a world-class avoider. I'm afraid to drive with him because since we have been together, he has had 6 minor accidents that can be directly blamed on his lack of attention/his magpie mind. "Oh look, a shiny bauble!" I cannot imagine him ever having to mind children. They would drown in their baths while he concentrated on the shine of the faucet.

His lack of time perception drives me crazy. He has absolutely NO idea how to gauge how much time it will take him to accomplish anything. As a result, he is always late. Sometimes, this is because he didn't leave enough time and sometimes it's because he added a few items to his list of things to do because......well.....because. In the meantime, I am waiting at home for him to bring home the car because he said he'd be back at 3 p.m. so I can go to the dentist. We agree we'll leave for the country early, at 7 a.m. Sometimes it's 1 p.m. before the car hauls out of the driveway and even then, we'd be later if I haven't finally cracked and loaded up the car! If he were responsible for picking up kids after school, I can't even think of what horrors might ensue!

His lack of organizational skills drives me crazy. I am an organizer par excellence, if I do say so myself, so this really, really bothers me. If he has 6 errands to run, he will drive helter-skelter all over town instead of plotting where each errand takes place and taking a planned cyclical route. It's almost as if he finds it impossible to take one single goal and break it down into manageable tasks, so the goal seems too hard to accomplish and he gives up until it absolutely has to be done. Or he will get so hyper-focused on one of the tasks that it seems to become the goal, instead of keeping his eye on the overall prize.

Does this sound like CRazz? If it does and your life also included infidelity, I feel so very sorry for you. As it is, I have to remind myself --OFTEN--that I love the man and his limitations are part of him. If infidelity were thrown into the mix, I can almost certainly say that I'd be outta there in an eye blink.

[This message edited by lynnm1947 at 9:49 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)]

I really appreciate this thread. I understand we have gone into many different conversations however it has been extremely helpful for me. I believe my WH has ADHD never tested. He is also PA. The infidelity has caused me to really look into things differently about our relationship and how we are dealing with each other.

I had heard a famous person on TV talk about his ADHD and making bad choices. He said he doesn't think beyond. It was eye opener for me.

How much of his thinking do you contribute to the ADHD?

[This message edited by 2oldforthis at 10:04 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)]

what truth posted is so eye opening for me. INAB is classic P/A so I feel everyone's frustrations, angst, and pain.

I think that the ADHD is a significant contributor to the way he thinks and behaves... and he is trying to control it with medication. His psychiatrist wanted him to do exercises to improve focus... but it's like, instructions?!?! for THIS?!?!? It's like asking someone who's skydiving to hold still in midair for a second. Almost physically impossible.

This is where the compassion comes back in. And the unconditional love part. I promised to love him no matter what, and if a large chunk of this is a focus disorder then I need to love and help him through it... to a degree. When I picture separation I don't see NC in the remotest... just space to save my sanity. I don't think I'll ever not care about him or want to help him if I can. I've definitely been grappling with depression, and he doesn't understand it or display a lot of compassion for it, but he seems to love me despite the "inconvenience."

I just saw this thread for the first time and only had time to skim through but I did see mention of lack of empathy and ADD so... Have you seen this really short (ADD friendly) video Jrazz? My H is good with empathy but it still helped us both gain a clearer understanding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Evwgu369Jw