SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Here's a thought. Tell her, "I won't listen to the forum. I'll just listen to what would bring me peace and happiness--this intruder out of my marriage so I can have my wife back full time. You want me to be happy because you love me, right? Great. Problem solved. Goodbye, extra dude."

Except she won't do that.

Which makes you miserable and sad.

Because our gut, our insides, know when we are being treated badly and hurt.

So YOU came to a forum for help; we didn't go out and find you.

Your misery is telling you to get this guy out NOW . . . or else. Not us. It's your very real, very painful unhappiness talking.

Have you spent time reading other people's threads and stories here? Read for a while. You will begin to understand why you are in such pain and what it's going to take to end that pain: change.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 10:52 PM, February 12th (Wednesday)]

Now the dominos fall...

I contacted his wife and she has the same story as me; only thing she is asking is why i did not wake up until now. She has been waiting to win her husband over just like me without success.

My wife also found out and is going historical over it; his wife wants me to trust and have full transparent discussion with my wife.

My self feels very empty now...

[This message edited by Canadien at 9:42 AM, February 13th (Thursday)]

She has been waiting to win her husband over just like me without success.

You can’t nice them back. It never works. So it 0 for 2.

My wife also found out and is going historical over it; his wife wants me to trust and have full transparent discussion with my wife.

Your wife isn’t capable of transparency so what’s there to discus?

The third party called me an was very angry of why i chose to contact his wife; he wants to end all contact between us.

Somehow i became the offender and he became the victim.

Do you not see he crazy behavior here? You wife and OM cheat. You call them out. They blame you?!

Based on this I would run far away from your “wife”. They are all crazy and trying to gaslight you into making it seem like you are crazy.

Let me be the voice of reason here.

They CHEATED AND HAD AN AFFAIR.

They are denying their behavior and next time your wife says ANYTHING to you, just start laughing in her face. Laugh at the absurdity of her behavior and actions. Laugh at her attempt to deny the affair. Laugh at her stupidity in thinking you will allow this behavior and continue to be a part of this marriage.

He wants you and his wife to end all contact but will he stop contact with your wife? That seems fair, but he won't do it. Now your WW and her BF are poor misunderstood star crossed lovers...

You did the right thing. Keep strong and just let her talk and yell, but respond with "I am sorry you feel that way but I disagree."

How do i make them understand that what i did was the best outcome.

My reaction and outrage was a normal occurance for a married men.

Somehow along the line they started to believe their individual right to connection but forgot about whats left over for the spouse.

Again..YOU CAN NOT MAKE THEM DO ANYTHING.

Stop trying to justify your actions. You know right from wrong,and You did what you felt was right.

These are cheaters. They don't care about anything but each other. It is not your job to teach them morals.

He is pissed that you called his wife,meanwhile he is having an affair with yours.

She is mad because you have made things harder for her boyfriend.

Tell me this...how can we make you understand that they both know what they are doing. They know they are having an affair. And they are both laughing at the fact that they have you convinced they're too stupid to know what an affair is.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:30 PM, February 13th (Thursday)]

I am very proud of you for contacting his wife. Guess who has power now? YOU. Decide what you want and insist on it. If she does not comply, move to take your dignity back by:

Divorcing her

Telling all family

Not blaming yourself

Blaming only her

Being strong because you deserve to have a wife all to yourself. You do.

Keep fighting.

For your happiness.

Biggest thing for me is to find a way to make my wife cool down; she is adamant that i posted our personal details on the forum and she still does not understand with no one to share with as i have very few people i can confide in only this forum provided a venu for me to express my heart out.

I hope she understands the pain this has caused me.

Out of respect for your traditional cultural values, I did some reading on Hinduism and divorce for historical and cultural context only. This article presented some relevant information. I can not vouch for its authority, but pass this along for your consideration. Please note that I am not bringing up religion on its own, for comparison or judgment. It is only being mentioned because it is relevant to your situation as supposedly common values between you and your wife. If my comments violate the rules of the SI site, I apologize and will not object to their censuring this post. Also note, for sake of open disclosure, that I am American and Christian, but I am not trying to introduce my religious values or beliefs into this post.

From "Hinduism and Divorce"

Woman, The Temptress and the Goddess

The attitude of ancient Hindus towards women was rather ambiguous. On the one hand, we have the Hindu law books which proclaim women to be untrustworthy and subservient to men, having no claim to liberty and independence. They declare a woman to be a possession, owned by her father before marriage, her husband after marriage and her children after her husband's death. They do advise men to treat women honorably and keep them happy in order to beget progeny and continue their lineage, but the emphasis is not on conjugal love but promulgation of Dharma. They warn the consequences that befall unchaste women, who neglect their families and their duties.

On the other hand, the scriptures equate women with Mother Goddess and call upon men to treat them with respect and dignity. They warn that a house in which women are unhappy would never prosper. A housewife is a goddess in her own right. She is Lakshmi of the house. Without her, her husband is incomplete. She brings her part of the karma to the marriage and by assisting him in his duties fulfills his destiny. She shares his joys and sorrows and his duties. She is his companion in the observation of dharma. Her presence is important in the performance of rituals and the samskaras, because she is a partner, a soul mate, not only for this life but for several. The duties and responsibilities of varnasharama dharma, performance of sacrifices and samskaras were not prescribed for women, but they were expected to assist their husbands in performing them.

Marriage As a Sacrament

If we have to understand the problems and issues concerning Hindu marriages and divorce, we have to understand the concepts and the beliefs that are attached to them. Traditionally speaking, in Hinduism there is no concept of divorce. Especially, women cannot seek separation from their husbands. Marriage is a sacrament, sanctified in the presence of gods. During marriage a couple vow to stay together for ever and uphold traditional family values in accordance with Dharma. The bride is given to the bridegroom as a gift from the gods, whom he can never abandon, without incurring the sin of violating the marriage vows. Marriage is a sacred relationship between two people, which is predestined because of their deep connection and joint karma in their previous lives. It is a commitment that extends beyond this life, up to several generations. A couple marry not because they have chosen to, but because they are destined to. Hence any notion of separation is a sacrilege, with terrible consequences awaiting both the parties in their future lives. Whatever difficulties the couple may have, society and the scriptures expect them to take them in their stride, as a part of their karma, and continue their journey together. In exceptional cases, they may live separately, but cannot throw away their marriage relationship without incurring negative karmic consequences for themselves and their children. Hindu scriptures do not recognize a woman's right to leave her husband under any circumstances. Her duty is to serve her husband and remain loyal to him for the rest of her life. But men have been provided with a choice under some special circumstances. The scriptures allow a married man to leave his wife or marry another on the grounds of infidelity, childlessness, an incurable disease such as leprosy or insanity, or even mere suspicion of adultery or infidelity. Divorce is a modern practice introduced into Hindu society through civil laws to protect the rights of both men and women that are guaranteed in the Indian constitution.

It would seem to me that:

=> Traditional values are confirmed that a marriage is between two people. Not three (a husband, a wife, and an other guy).

=> Your wife has neglected her husband as she has been spending to much time, focus, and emotional investment in the other guy (and first boyfriend as well) and been involved in, at least, an emotional affair with the other guy. I do not care what your wife believes emotional connection = emotional affair, if that is all it is.

=> Your wife has not been bringing "her part of the karma" to your marriage and assisting you in your duties to fulfill your destiny. She has been sharing the other guy's joys and sorrows and his duties, not yours. She is the other guy's companion in the observation of dharma, not yours. Her presence is important in the performance of rituals and the samskaras, because she is a partner, a soul mate, not only for this life but for several. The duties and responsibilities of varnasharama dharma, performance of sacrifices and samskaras were not prescribed for women, but they were expected to assist their husbands in performing them. Your wife has not been present in your marriage because she has invested her emotional self with the other guy. Not being present in your marriage, she cannot perform her duties in the marriage and assist you. Is not this the case?

=> Based upon your postings, her behavior has more than justified a mere suspicion of adultery or infidelity. Emotional affairs almost always eventually become physical. Your wife's insistence that the other guy be included in the baby's birthday party decorations, and his anger at being excluded is truly concerning. Your wife's actions have certainly IMHO triggered the condition of suspicion. A DNA test of your baby, and a polygraph test of your wife to obtain evidence as to whether or not she committed adultery (physical or otherwise) would change suspicion into evidence. Also your wife, and yourself, should be test for STDs for your health and safety due to the suspicions that your wife's behavior (actions) have created.

=>During marriage a couple vow to stay together for ever and uphold traditional family values in accordance with Dharma. Your wife can not stay together with you while she is with the other guy, and doting on him. She is not focused on you, but him. Your wife's duty is to serve her husband (you, not the other guy) and remain loyal to her husband (you, not the other guy) for the rest of her life. By your posting, I think you have made the case that she is loyal to the other guy, not you, and is serving him, not you. Is this not the case?

=> Because of your wife's focus on the other guy, she is neglecting or abdicating her obligation to complete her husband (you).

Your wife keeps generating a smoke screen to obscure the truth about the propriety and extent of her relationship with the other guy. Typically, where there is smoke, there is fire. She may be completely be in a self-protection mode and will (continue to) deny any adulterous behavior to avoid the consequences, the truth be damned. However, since she has done enough to create suspicion, it is now incumbent on her to prove to you, by her actions and not just by her words, that she can completely fulfill her obligations to you and her marriage. She must fix herself and become committed to her marriage, and not to her affair. Therefore, she must never have ANY more contact with the other guy EVER. So what if he is now angry. His shadow should never cross her path, her mind, or her heart ever again. Good riddance to him!

Note that I am not basing this post on "American" values, but try to view your situation through the lens of traditional Hindu values. IMHO, religious concerns aside, I still find your wife lacking in morals. I belief that she makes up her values to be whatever she needs to justify her actions. Is that not the case?

Hello there Passthis;

It seems u are in the right direction in terms of sacred religious terms u have offered and how this relates to me.

My wife and the third guy know all the hindu scriptures and follow them with convinction; they were doing their daily prayers and mantras throughout their phone conversations and the meetings too;

He also has a masque in his home so his well versed in both hindu and muslim religion; he has temple and mosque side by side in his home.

He was also able to remove black magic and do Yagna like priests.

As for me i grew up in Canada as i came here when i was 14 and i am not that versed into religious stuff.

I was following Jiddu Krishnamurti teachings, and try to approach the world accordingly; but that teaching questioned and challenged religious teachings and following and my wife was not a fan of that.

It seemed like they were becoming soulmates, and i was just observing from the sideline and could do nothing about it as they were using earbuds and now distant conversations so i could not get into their world or observe what they were talking about.

Lot of time he would be on a snapchat video and they would just keep wstching each other without saying a word, but she seemed transcended during those moments and this things were happenning more frequently.

My wife has no hobbies or interests outside work; so talking and interacting with him was the only karma she did.

Once like 6 months ago they both mentioned that only their attention was all they needed in this life while i was rambling on about how to improve my self and challenge my self to learn new productive habits; i felt like a fool while they seemed like a soulemate.

What do i do now to get my wife back? She is withrawn from life and lots of hostility is against me build up, how do i make her understand that i am there for her, and my focus is to make our future brighter with great attention and care for

Her.

[This message edited by Canadien at 8:03 AM, February 14th (Friday)]

What do i do now to get my wife back?

You can't get her back.

It looks like you can separate, if you follow Jiddu Krishnamurti. If you stay together, your W will be no wife unless she chooses to change.

I urge you to read, comprehend, and practice The Simplified 180 - https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=598080.

*****

One definition of 'insane' is 'doing the same thing and expecting a different result.' That's what you seem to be doing with your W.

To get out of pain, you will have to change yourself - and you can do it.

[This message edited by sisoon at 8:58 AM, February 14th (Friday)]

The biggest regret from all of this endeovre is that she became very aggresive when i talked about letting parents and other family members know about our issue;

How come she did not see that me seeing her losing focus with the third guy was enough; other people seeing was a non issue for me.

my at most duty is to be loyal and faithful to my spouse and i manage my interactions with others keeping my spouse in mind.

I can say that at times i am emotionally charged and we have few disagreements over certain things but thats what gives marriage a life.

She said that she avoids sharing things with me because i start solving problems as soon as she tells me something and i need to be less anxious and listen to her conversation more.

She says that i am certain way and she has tried to change my way of perception without success; she has tried to make me a better hisband as she is a good wife but i simply do not get it.

She says that u were playing games and in your own world when i first came to canada and u failed to pay attention when i needed it, she says that any other woman might have left you long time ago if they saw how i was as a person at that time.

[This message edited by Canadien at 10:10 AM, February 14th (Friday)]

Dude, do you hear yourself?

The biggest regret from all of this endeovre is that she became very aggresive when i talked about letting parents and other family members know about our issue;

How come she did not see that me seeing her losing focus with the third guy was enough; other people seeing was a non issue for me.

She became aggressive, so the fuck what, she cheated on you. Why are you trying to fix this?

my at most duty is to be loyal and faithful to my spouse and i manage my interactions with others keeping my spouse in mind.

Why, so it's your job to be loyal and her job to be an unpaid prostitute? You need to see her for what she really is.

I can say that at times i am emotionally charged and we have few disagreements over certain things but thats what gives marriage a life.

yeah, you know what also gives marriage life, being faithful to each other, she isn't faithful to you so you really don't have a marriage.

She said that she avoids sharing things with me because i start solving problems as soon as she tells me something and i need to be less anxious and listen to her conversation more.

That's really sweet of her, I mean she does like to share her vagina with other dudes but her needs are paramount to yours. Adulting 101 here, you have difficult talks so that you can fix stuff.

She says that i am certain way and she has tried to change my way of perception without success; she has tried to make me a better hisband as she is a good wife but i simply do not get it.

That's super sweet of her, the man she married "isn't really good enough as is" so I need to fix him and make him better, oh shucks that didn't work so i better go screw someone else. Your definition of good is different than mine, a good wife doesn't screw other men.

She says that u were playing games and in your own world when i first came to canada and u failed to pay attention when i needed it, she says that any other woman might have left you long time ago if they saw how i was as a person at that time.

Yes any other sane, rational woman would have talked to you about it and if you didn't make changes yes they probably would have left but she decided another guys penis was the solution to you being in your own world.

As long as it's only about her needs she is perfect, but you know that pesky problem of having two people in a marriage that both have needs that need to be fulfilled doesn't come into her mindset .

Dude, please see her for what she is. You should be at a lawyers office, filling out paperwork and separating your shit so you can leave this toxic mess.

[This message edited by sorryforeverythi at 10:24 AM, February 14th (Friday)]

My wife and the third guy know all the hindu scriptures and follow them with convinction; they were doing their daily prayers and mantras throughout their phone conversations and the meetings too;

They may know the scriptures, but they are not following the scriptures that I read about marriage. What your wife is doing is a sham observation of the scriptures. How can she reconcile her abdicating her responsibility to "bring her Karma to your marriage" with "follow with conviction." Truth: SHE is NOT.

The third guy is a charlatan. Where does his anger come from when you object to his imposition into your marriage and your baby's life? Your wife is in a fog of adoration for this a**holey man.

It seemed like they were becoming soulmates, and i was just observing from the sideline and could do nothing about it as they were using earbuds and now distant conversations so i could not get into their world or observe what they were talking about.

Your wife chooses to be his soulmate. She has abandoned you, or "fired" you as her husband. She is not helping you complete yourself. She is a sham of a wife, and disrespectful of you and the concept of marriage

Lot of time he would be on a snapchat video and they would just keep wstching each other without saying a word, but she seemed transcended during those moments and this things were happenning more frequently.

If that doesn't rise to the level of suspicion of infidelity, there is nothing more to say.

My wife has no hobbies or interests outside work; so talking and interacting with him was the only karma she did.

She is giving him the karma that she should be giving to her husband (you).

Once like 6 months ago they both mentioned that only their attention was all they needed in this life while i was rambling on about how to improve my self and challenge my self to learn new productive habits; i felt like a fool while they seemed like a soulemate.

She chooses him over you. You are a third wheel. She has exiled you from her emotional, spiritual life.

What do i do now to get my wife back? She is withdrawn from life and lots of hostility is against me build up, how do i make her understand that i am there for her, and my focus is to make our future brighter with great attention and care for Her.

The SI advice given to you has been PROVEN by the years in which SI has been a resource for getting out of infidelity and the hundreds, if not thousands, of marriages they have supported in attempts to get of infidelity, whether by reconciliation or divorce. Please follow the advice that you have received here.

It is known that you can not "nice her back" to you. You can not control her. Right now she is lost to him. You can not compete with her fantasy adoration with him (unless you learn how to create a spell that makes her repulse from him).

How to create that spell:

1. follow the 180. Take it to the extreme level called "grey rock" (research that). She is in a state of infidelity. She is not providing her karma to the marriage. You should not be providing your Karma to her. She needs to sense that you have totally withdrawn your Karma from her. Your wife has exiled you spiritually. While you are exiled, she has been kidnapped, at least emotionally, by the third guy. Lord Rama received help from his friends/family and was able to reunite with Sita. Maybe, you can relate this story to your situation.

2. DNA test your baby. Test yourself for STDs. Tell your wife to get an STD test and to provide you with the results of her test. If you are not the father, or she tests positive for an STD, then infidelity is PROVEN. If you are the father, along with negative STD test results, you will have piece of mind.

3 Expose your wife's infidelity to your family and her family. Expose them for the frauds that they are. They are not good, faithful people. Everyone needs to know that and the explanation why you are separating from her and why that action is consistent with the values of a highly respected family. You will also be able to avail yourself to the emotional and spiritual advice and feedback from them. You need that support at this time. How else can you get the support that you need if you have not told your families about the situation? She is certainly not providing ANY support to you.

4 Demand 100% and forever no contact between your wife and him. (She will refuse to comply)

5. Demand that she leave your family's home. She has abandoned you and your family. If not physically, then emotionally and spiritually. Suggest that she go stay with her mother. Bonus: that will separate her from easy access to the third guy.

6. Stop supporting her to any extent above the level demanded by Canadian law. A lawyer will help/advise you. Have a Child Support Agreement agreed upon between you and your wife (after the DNA test results are known). You should have lawyers help you develop this agreement and file it with the court so that it is legally appropriate and binding.

7. Your family's values may prevent you from divorcing your wife in the religious, spiritual world. However, you should file for divorce in the secular world. That will protect your assets for yourself and your baby, and set forth the secular, legal obligations that you owe your wife (in this life). You might still continue your spiritual obligations to her, (to carry over to future lives, perhaps) but that is between you and your values and is not impacted by the secular state created by men. This construct may help you reconcile your secular actions and your spiritual actions.

8. You should seek to complete yourself with your friends and family. But, you need to separate yourself from your currently toxic wife who torments you in this life. This current life of hers is not helping/completing you in any way, except for providing you with your child (DNA test, though). Perhaps you must consider that this life will be a time of trouble or despair for you, but that future lives will be different.

9. Move forward and find your destiny for this life, even if your wife does not follow by you side-by-side at this time.

10. Hopefully, she will return to you in this life, if you desire her back. If not, you will have to wait for her return in the next life.

11. Consider, after consulting with your family, divorcing your wife spiritually. Perhaps it was a mistake to marry her. She may not have been destined for you. If so, correct this mistake so you don't waste this life. Perhaps you will go on to find your destined wife in this life.

I may be misunderstanding your values and beliefs, but I am simply trying to explain the SI advice and suggestions to you in a framework or perspective that is consistent with your and your family's belief system.

Hopefully, other SI posters can add necessary nuances and what I have missed in this framework. They have all been giving good advice from SI established and proven knowledge and methodology.

Lastly, please do not respond to me until you have actually acted on my advice (even if it is to reject it). You must now DO something to get you out of this horrible situation. As you progress, you can report your progress and bring up additional issues as they are revealed. However, if you are not going to take action, but continue to contemplate only, I can only hope for the best for you. Do not ask further of me what you should do. Come back with your story about HOW you are doing. Tell us what you have accomplished. Everyone here at SI is behind you, and is supportive of you. Feed off the "good Karma" that they are sending you and use it to your advantage, and "get out of infidelity".

[This message edited by PassThis at 10:34 AM, February 14th (Friday)]

Hello guys;

So when is a good time to talk about all this turmoil with my wife.

She says i have created a big problem and has gone quiet completely; it seems like she is in another world and full of reaction and hurt.

Should I hold off comforting her? Whats the timeline required for her to get ready for the conversation about the Third party?

It seems like she erupts with anger every time i mentioned about our past six months.

I want to do fun things with her but she is not ready and as a person i do not hold grudge or animosity for long especially knowing how hurt she is at this moment.

I can let go of all my hurt and tragedy; yet i want to see the confidence in her and our relationship; i know u guys are pointing toward D but i simply can not bring myself to do that to the person i love the most.

So, guys just point out how to deal with her silence and tantrums; and make her positive and full of life i know her to be; do i go quiet myself?

What should my reaction and action be to make her realize what she has got? She always says that i do not give her enough attention; So,by staying away wouldn't i be confirming her beliefs.

From what i know myself to be; i literally have no activity or things to keep me preoccupied with; and seeing her talking to a third party all this time previously created negative spiral energy in me where i would be doing nothing next to her with phone in my hand and she keeps saying that you are on your phone and thats why i am talking to him.

But its nothing that i am doing, still how to make her understand that i am waiting for her; she has all this bad images and ideas about me that i use other people and abandoned them or i do not know how to build relatiknships but deep down i know i do, so how to challange her perception?

[This message edited by Canadien at 6:50 AM, February 15th (Saturday)]

At this point you don't need more talk - you need to take action.

Why? because actions will speak 1,000 times louder than words!

You already know what you must do in order to have the best chance to save your marriage.

The previous post by PassThis lays it all out.

You must show zero tolerance for her behavior and take decisive action (including filing for divorce) to remove yourself from her abuse.

You must continue to take decision action until you observe a (again: focus on her actions not words) long term (not just a few days/weeks).

change

The third party called me an was very angry of why i chose to contact his wife; he wants to end all contact between us.

That took nerve. LOL!

You should have said "Instead of asking me why I called your wife, you should be asking me why I haven't come over and whooped your sorry ass!"

Judas Priest, Canadien. Have you read anything that has been written to you? Quit asking what you can do about this and that and how you can make your WW do this or that or understand this or that. Read what has been written to you. Those questions have been responded to repeatedly. What do you want? Do you want someone to tell you that what you are doing and thinking is perfect? It isn't. Read what has been written to you. That is collective wisdom of others who have already gone through this shitshow. What else can anyone say to you that would sink in?