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JKL Vikings,

I understand what you are saying. I don't think I got away with it, because I have to live with it the rest of my life. The shame and guilt will fade, I may forgive myself...but there will always be the fact that I betrayed the one I loved.

The respect I lost for myself far outweighs any sexual adventures I had.

caspers1wish - I understand what you are saying and you do have a valid point, but please consider this.

Lets say you went grocery shopping. You go to the bakery dept. and you take a cake and eat it all in the store, every last little crumb, and it was super yummy, too. But, you get busted because they have you on film. So, you pay all the legal consequences. But, you ate the cake and you enjoyed it. You got away with enjoying your stolen cake.

caspers1wish - I understand what you are saying and you do have a valid point, but please consider this.

Lets say you went grocery shopping. You go to the bakery dept. and you take a cake and eat it all in the store, every last little crumb, and it was super yummy, too. But, you get busted because they have you on film. So, you pay all the legal consequences. But, you ate the cake and you enjoyed it. You got away with enjoying your stolen cake.

And the money to pay for the stolen cake comes out of your JOINT bank account!

Sister...I have to admit I LOL'd at your example...and agree that in my situation, I think H enjoyed eating his cake at the time...now of course he is reaping the consequences so in a way he got away with eating the cake but didnt get away with not being punished for it.

I also think JKL may have chosen the term "get away with it" because he is going off of another thread from last week in another forum...so I don't think those words would have be chosen otherwise??? Correct me if I am wrong JKL...

My H would have totally gotten away with it had he deleted his emails!!! I would have never in a million years known about the A. I often wonder if the feelings he has now that he has been caught would have been there had he not been caught...

No one that has a moral compass or a conscience gets away with anything they do that causes pain and damage to another.

That doesn't ever take away the pain or devasation being the recipient of those actions.

I don't think that can ever be a balm on a wound that deep.

A WS living with the consequences of the actions we chose is not comparable to the BS struggling to deal with the aftermath of the bomb we detonated in their life. The fact there was blow back on us is of little solace.

Yet, for many of the WS that post here experiencing seeing how their BS is hurting and truly witnessing the devastation our actions caused to our loved ones and ourselves is part of the very powerful driving force behind our growth and healing.

One of our veteran wise WS FRM often says "We must all suffer the consequences, those that chose to stray". So true but sadly we're not the only ones that suffer those consequences.

StillGoing captured how I feel. It's actually one of the things I said to FWH after D-day- I feel like I reaped the bulk of the consequences for what he and OW chose. Our DS also suffered. There's no way to balance the equation.

I have a great deal of empathy for FWH's lasting internal consequences, but I share them too. Everytime he show affection, tell me he loves me, or does any of the multitude of loving things he now does there's always this echo of the A that sounds in my heart. He's grateful and ashamed and I see it. And I hurt for both of us.

BTW, as an FYI the "WS Handbook" that was referenced is a shorthand for BS's to describe the standard behaviors and words that are common in WS's while in the A or before they are remorseful. They all tend to run along the same pattern.

No one that has a moral compass or a conscience gets away with anything they do that causes pain and damage to another.

That doesn't ever take away the pain or devasation being the recipient of those actions.

I agree. There are consequences to holding oneself accountable which is why so many WS decide not to do the hard work.

[This message edited by Hope24 at 4:47 PM, May 9th (Monday)]

So, you pay all the legal consequences. But, you ate the cake and you enjoyed it. You got away with enjoying your stolen cake.

I know that the issue is that the cheating happened in the first place, as to why it seems we are talking about 2 different aspects. It still does not negate the original poster's point that there is no getting away with having an affair. The affair happened, it shouldn't have, and there is nothing the WS can do to make that up. It all sucks very much.

Well, you "got away with it" until the situation wasn't good for you anymore. Such is life...

Keep in mind that engaging in immoral behaviors isn't a fun or desirable thing for all of us. That's why we don't get the "I didn't get away with it" theory.

I believe that my F?WH got away with it. He tries to counter that discussion with all the work he is doing on himself now. MC/IC, transparent, open, communicative.

I, believe, he got away with it because like JustaStatistic I didn't find out about A until 6 years later.

We were also in counseling then and it wasn't as if he was honest about his A then, which I had asked him point blank. It wasn't as if he became remorseful and a better husband in those 6 years. He has said many times that he was/is regretful. We have many go rounds about the difference of regret/remorse. Sure, he was regretful, he hoped I would never find out.

He certainly didn't become the man he is today. The only way he was forced to change was because his XW/OW informed me. Otherwise, he and XW/OW would have still had their secret. So, in my case, I believe my F?Wh "got away with it."

Sorry, but some waywards get away with it. My husband got away with everything that ever mattered to me. He got away with lying, cheating, and blaming. He is now getting away with convincing everyone who will listen that I am crazy and that's what drove him to cheat. They are buying it...

He got away with it. No one gives a shit that he and his coworker messed around with a married man, they all seem to understand that "these things happen." You know, especially in UNhappy marriages like his was.

I gave my life to my family, and now I don't have one. I am now a part time parent because we are a 'no fault' state and it doesn't matter that my husband cheated and decided his wife wasn't worth the effort. He has the house because he inherited it. He knows that he can love someone else, because he had an affair. I've never loved anyone else and am terrified that I never will again.

He got away with it. I was very gentle in how I told our children when I left, so they still respect and adore him. My daughter, in fact, blames me for the whole thing. If I hadn't yelled and bitched so much, he wouldn't have sought the comfort of another woman, right?

He got away with it. There is no karma bus. He doesn't, and evidently never did love me the way that I love him. The one who loves least has all the power in the relationship, and he loved least.

He got away with it. He mostly got away with it because it doesn't HURT him. The pain that he suffers comes in the form of what comes out of his check as a result of our settlement--and that's IT. I'd gladly give that up to be loved again. Some days I would give that up for the illusion I had that I wws loved in the first place.

I wanted to die, and he wanted to protect his assets. He got away with it.

I guess my point is--IF the wayward spouse has a conscience, they don't get away with it. For those that seem to lack a conscience, they really do "get away with it."

This post humbled me. I'm almost 5 months out from D-Day 2, and feel I've been consistent with remorse, transparency, being there emotionally for BH, etc., and dealing with the consequence of my LTA. From that standpoint, I don't feel like I'm "getting away with it".

However, Sister's analogy about eating the stolen cake rings 100% true for me. I can't change the fact that I cheated; I "got away" with being unfaithful, whereas my husband remained committed to the M.

Sorry, technical difficulties!

[This message edited by sudra at 6:34 AM, May 10th (Tuesday)]

I think the reason we BSs feel like the WS got away with it is due to a couple of things.

1. WS got to fall in love with someone new. Everyone knows how good that feels. I didn't get to do this.

2. WS got to have sex with someone new after 17 years of sex with only me (I hope). Again, I didn't get to do this.

3. We are now working on our marriage, so bonus there for WS. Better intimacy, better sex, better marriage. Yes, this is better for me, but what a price!

4. WS was loved by two women at once. What an ego boost. I found out the man I loved and trusted was ready to toss me to the curb. No ego boost for me there.

5. WS has had two affairs, one EA only, one EA/PA, so he knows he is attractive to other women. No man has ever approached me since WS and I got married. No ego boost for me again.

I understand that the WS feels guilty, but it was his/her choice. I had no say in the matter and yet was thrown into this storm.

Right or wrong, it does feel like the WS got away with it.

[This message edited by sudra at 7:38 PM, May 9th (Monday)]

When I think about the affair in these terms, I have to admit that I do believe that my WS "got away with it." Not that he doesn't have a moral compass, and not that he didn't feel pain for betraying me. He's had to look my parents and my sister and brother in the eyes and apologize...I can't imagine the courage that took. He has paid for the A in many ways, and I recognize that, and it is why reconciliation was possible.

However, he admits that since the affair and since I gave him a second chance, he has realized just how much I love him. I, on the other hand, deal every day with the knowledge that he told someone else he loved her while he was my partner. That simple fact...means that he gained something from the A, while I lost.

Right or wrong, it does feel like the WS got away with it.

I can absolutely see how it would feel that way.

No disrespect intended to any bs on here.

None taken.

Let's define "getting away with it" as not having to face ANY consequences for our actions.

See, that's where my definition as a BW differs. Getting away with it to me means not suffering consequences that would fit the crime.

Going back to the cake example, let's pretend that someone steals a cake and their consequence is to serve 1 night in jail. To some of us BS's, getting away with it is like committing murder but getting sentenced to one night in jail. Sure the WS suffers some kind of consequence but none that would seem fit for the crime.

I'm 2 years out and the example above is way over exaggerated. I think my WH's consequences have been much more than serving one night in jail. I can see his pain. But that doesn't mean that he is suffering to what *I* believe would fit his crime. And that's why that statement would leave a bad taste in my mouth. In my eyes, it minimizes his crime.

Thanks for this post JKL, you really brought out alot of wisdom, thoughts and deep emotions.

I guess I'm so far out from D-day that the sex no longer matters, the betrayal does and although I can't put myself in my WS's shoes, I can't help but think like uncertainone stated...

No one that has a moral compass or a conscience gets away with anything they do that causes pain and damage to another.

Yeah, my WS "got away with having sex outside of our marriage", but I truely believe he would not have done this if he could have glimpsed into the future and seen the pain and long term damage he caused to both of us and our children. I also think there is a high probability this will happen again, the introspection and ownership necessary for his healing... just is not happening. In my case he is very emotionally unavailable. The ensuing damage is so much more pertinent than the sex. I daresay no amount of hot booty is worth your spouse losing all respect, faith and trust in you in addition to YOU knowing what YOU did to your own moral core.

Alot of growth can come from examining how you put yourself in that situation and I think you are going to be okay.

Holdingtogether said..

I think most BS's can see all to well the consequences and difficulties suffered by truely remorseful WS's. We are sometimes even able to empathize with the suffering as well. That having been said though I think that most often that phrase would be defined more as: Having gotten away without having to suffer the ultimate LOGICAL consequence of such a betrayal. That being the consequence of losing the love and support of the betrayed spouse forever. BS's that reconcile are aften going against their own instincts, friends and families advice, popular cultural opinion, their own moral codes and essential sense of fairness and right and wrong. So many factors SCREAM inside the BS's head to run away from this person as fast as possible. So when they go against all sense of logic and fairness to try and forgive, they might feel in some way that the WS "got away with" not paying the ultimate logical FAIR price for thier behavior.

Again, BS's can usually see those consequences that the WS IS paying but most of those consequences are SHARED by the BS as well. And for every consequence not shared the BS probably has one or two of thie own that the WS never has to share. So I think that the consequences are pretty evenly divided up.

What isn't evenly shared is the responsibilites. The BS had zero say in the affair that brought all those consequences about. Never had the chance to say: "this affair is too risky. I don't want to take risk of the fallout.". The WS DID, and so it can be difficult for a BS sometimes to hear the WS discussing all of the consequences they might be suffering. I am sure you can understand how that might be difficult to listen to sometimes.

Most WS's say that they accept that the consequences they suffer are the result of thier actions but then, in the same breath, go on to complain about those very consequences. A BS, who is suffering as many if not more consequences for their WS's actions not their own, might be forgiven for sometimes being less than sympathetic to the WS's plight.

So, that being said, while most BS can see the suffering and even empathize with it, they often probably don't want to hear it. And so they might say something hurtful like: "you got away with it". They probably don't mean it in the way you are hearing it. Take it with a grain of salt.

I absolutely feel the same way as the above quote, and would like to add by saying you "got away with it" it sometimes means, as a couple you will never be even or "equals" again. The BS will always have had this betrayal done to them, and the WS will always have done the betraying.

Of course a remorseful wayward suffers some blowback from the affair, but as someone on here said, "When you chose to have an affair, you also chose the consequences". Unfortunately the Betrayed spouse doesn't get the benefits of the affair (that others have mentioned), or the choice of being betrayed.

To use the hand grenade analogy, it is like the WS tossed a grenade at the BS, blew them to pieces, then tries to say that their eyebrows got singed from the explosion (extreme example, I know). No 2x4's intended here, just my perspective. I actually find myself feeling sorry for my WW quite often, consoling her after one of our more heated "A" talks....and yet I still feel "she got away with it"??????