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She came back to the house got the rest of her things and left again. She came upstairs once and told me that she would be taking our daughter to daycare on Thursday. I just said ok and she was gone. I screwed up and called her. I asked told her I just wanted to make sure we both knew what was going on and she said “You are moving on, and I have to find another place to live.” I told her that as far as I was concerned her behavior had really hurt me, and her actions after d-day have continued to hurt me. I told her that I did not agree with her thoughts and feelings about why her affairs happened.

She is currently at a tattoo parlor, another of her coping mechanisms that we had previous issues with. She went to her hometown for a week a few years back, and while there her ex-boyfriend paid for her to get a tattoo. She didn’t tell me she was getting one, she didn’t tell me that she had gotten one once she got home. A week later I saw the tattoo on her and was very upset.

When I first called her I asked her where she was and if she had time to talk. She said she was driving, on her way to the grocery store. She doesn’t realize I have the GPS so she is still lying to me. I have got to realize that enough is enough and that no matter how bad I want this to be fixed it’s just not going to be.

Gently, why are you allowing her to dictate things about your daughter on your day? You really should start setting some boundaries for yourself. She wants to make this about her, and her needs, and it isn’t. Your daughter, on your days, is yours to take to daycare, or not. If you want her bringing D to daycare, fine, but if not, then no. Boundaries. Your wife does not understand the word NO.

Also, years ago an exboyfriend was paying for her to get tattooed? How long has she had serious issues with needing attention from the opposite sex? That is so abnormal that it just seems like something that would have been more than a small discussion and disappointment.

Also, her statement “you’re moving on” is pushing the split off on you. You need her to understand that it is her and her refusal to own her behavior and the blame for the A that is causing this, not you and your desires. She is acting extremely self-serving and entitled, and it isn’t good for you.

Please, get that IC you said you would be in, make sure she understands that it isn’t simply “you moving on” and that you will decide what happens with your daughter on your days.

I’m sorry your WW has her head up her butt and won’t remove it. She will one day – it’s just when.

I wanted to post to say I'm very sorry u r going through this, and I wish u the best. The main point other than that is to tell u my experiences about telling the other men's wives in my situation. I can honestly say I experienced every reaction from overwhelming sorrow, to outright anger at me because they did not believe me. However, in the end every single woman thanked me for telling them. They were grateful! I offered all the evidence I had gathered and shared it freely with those that wanted it.

What it boils down to is that its not your fault what your wife and their husband's did. They were the cowardly ones that have to destroy their family's lives. You tellin them doesn't put the blame on u. It doesn't make their poor decisions your fault. But you have the power right now to force them to be truthful to their spouse's, and give their spouse's the oppurtunity to make a choice of what to do based on fact, not their spouse's lies.

The decision is yours to make. I am not trying to pressure u or push you to make a decision I made. I am just trying to help you realize that it is ok for you to notify them..

I created a fake Facebook page, found the OM’s W and sent her a message with enough details for her to take it seriously. I still feel bad about it, but you are all right. It kills me to know that my WS and her friends all knew what was happening and then would spend time around me acting like everything was ok. She does deserve to know and I hope knowing leads them to a better life.

I also talked with WS again on the phone and once again tried to explain to her that SHE was responsible for her own choices, including the choices SHE is making now to let her pride stand in the way of any recovery, which she says she still wants. I told her that she could do something to fix this if she really wanted and she said “Like what? Beg?” She said that she had been reading WS articles that have told her to never beg. Well that’s perfectly fine, I never wanted her to beg, but she didn’t even ask.

That’s that I guess. I do feel a sense of relief having got everything off my chest. I’m going to go enjoy the rest of the day with my daughter. Thanks again to everyone on here for all the support and advice!

I'm happy you feel some relief!! It does help to let it all out. Your WW will come around and accept her role - most do, but if not, you will be OK. You haven't done a thing to be ashamed of, and you are being the dad your daughter needs.

Things have a way of working themselves out.

And good for you for letting the OBS know. She was living a lie, just like you were, and now she can start looking at her real life, not the one her WH wants her to think she has.

Well done!!

HatingThis

Do not fall for her pity party.

Your wife at anytime could close her legs, tell you she us truly sorry, stop lying o you , get off the d@mn computer and go to IC and work on her issues.

Has she done one of those things let alone all of them?

You are seeing the real her.

Focus on you and your kid.

And your kid belongs with you before she ends up with a tattoo as well.

HM

First of all, i am truly sorry.

With the greatest amount of respect you are coming across as incredibly passive. Before you make the decision to R or D, you need to regain control of your life. You are allowing your wife to walk all over you. She is the one that has cheated! You need to destroy this fantasy she has created for herself, and you do this by telling every wife/girlfriend of her affair partners.

Next you go see a lawyer, file for divorce (you can always stop the process later), and start fighting for your child.

Then you implement 180. Once you feel you have regained enough control of your life, then you think about R or D.

Wish you well, and if i came across as a bit harsh i apologize.

I think you need to mentally step back from the situation for a minute and realize the difference between what is just static, and what has substance.

A lot of what WS do is blast static into the situation. If you listen to the static, you won't hear the meat of the conversation.

Listen. Set your emotions aside and just listen.

brother, I am sorry you are hear but you are here for a reason. listen to these great people who have all been through what you are now! they have given great advice and experience. I know you still love her and I know you did not want this , non of us did. But we are all here and you will not be the one destroying anything if you divorce, she did that! and you will not destroy your family , she did that too , and you will not destroy other guys family, she also did that. My stbxww never gave us a chance at R , she had an exit affair and I still love her , but I can honestly say that if she did want R that I would not even consider it . I also have kids but I will not teach them that cheating and lying and stealing is ok. I do understand your pain and I am sorry

I spoke to her about the trip to the tattoo parlor she made and why she lied to me about it. Turns out she got a piercing in her lip. We had just spoken with our MC just a few weeks ago about how her getting the tattoo while out of town was selfish and hurtful. She admitted it was wrong and said she would always include me in discussion about altering her body. The MC after I had uncovered all her lies told me I needed to draw my line, and stick to it. My line was one more lie.

We have spoken a few times since my last post. I asked her why she got the piercing knowing it would damage our chances at R. She admitted that she thought about me, knew it would bother me, but did it anyway because she has been so stressed, and that it was a relief for her to do something like that for herself. Sitting aside every way it made me feel, and how little she cared, she was also out of the house at this time, and moving from one friend or relatives place to another until she finds an apartment. She needs to find an apartment so her and our daughter has a place to live on their days together. Spending money on hurtful coping jewelry was more important at the time though.

With all of her hurtful, careless, and destructive behavior lately she did send me a very long text message that felt quite sincere. She talked about how she has self-esteem issues. She said she feels like a child searching for acceptance. She went into some detail about problems with her family life and how she always felt like she was to blame for the bad things that happened there. She was sorry that she didn’t come clean with everything right on d-day and lied about it continuously. She felt like she was protecting me from the things she did because she knew how much they would hurt me. She said she didn’t want our daughter to be the way she is, and that she wants her to feel great about herself and love and not lie to those she loves. She said she was going to work on all her issues and that she wanted to come back home.

I told her in very clear language that if there was any chance of reconciliation she would have to remove the lip piercing, as it is just a sign, right on her face, which shows how she lied to me and selfishly decided to get it, knowing it was going to hurt me. She said she would remove it but was not hiding the fact that she was very upset about it. I told her she could come home and she arrived with the piercing still in.

I seriously don’t know what to think right now. She speaks one way and acts another. Says she wants R and does something to mess it up every chance she gets. I know I need to stick to my line. She lied to me again. She is not learning from her mistakes at this time and will most likely continue to hurt me. I don’t understand why I’m still even considering R.

[This message edited by Hatingthis247 at 10:05 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)]

Hatingthis - we teach people how to treat us.

She said she would remove it but was not hiding the fact that she was very upset about it. I told her she could come home and she arrived with the piercing still in.

You are teaching your wife that she can treat you with absolute disdain and disregard

your feelings without consequence... She is not going to take any of this seriously until she knows you are serious.

Hi there. I wanted to chime in and say thanks for telling the OBS. I was pretty hurt that MOW's BH didn't tell me, and I certainly wished that he would have.. And I think you have a better shot at R if you shine big lights on the affair. Somehow the fantasy and secrecy and thrill of it all shrivels up when the lights of truth and reality hit it..

Honestly, I would do this:

Best cure for a serial cheater like her is hard consequences.

1) Move all your money and paychecks to an account in your name only. Cut off all her funds.

2) Box up her belongings and set them out on the front porch. Change the locks to the house and text her and tell her to come pick up her shit.

3) Go see a lawyer. Start the ball rolling on the D. Have her served at work and watch the meltdown ensue.

4) DO NOT TALK TO HER ABOUT ANYTHING BUT D. Let her see you moving on fast and quick. Move so fast it makes her head spin.

Your relationship doesn't have to be over, but this is where your attitude should be right now with an unremorseful spouse.

I'm sorry, but she does NOT sound remorseful at all to me. Just from reading your posts, she sounds like a manipulator, and she's playing with you because she can. She knows you want to R, so she can kind of do whatever she wants. She put you in the hotseat, like you better not screw up or she's out of there. F that!!!!

If you have any hope of a healthy relationship with this woman, you need some firm boundaries, NOW. She is throwing herself a pity party, blaming her FOO, her past, her "needs," etc.. When does she face herself and say, "OMG, I'm such an idiot! I really fucked things up.. I need to get my life straightened out. I might lose my family! Please, somebody, help me!!"????

Does she need to beg? Uh, yeah she does. Hell yeah she does. You better believe she does.

It sounds like you will be walking on eggshells, trying to comfort her and reassure her that you guys can reconcile. I'll give you a hint, you DO NOT want to R with this woman right now. She is a cheating, lying, manipulative snake right now. I get the feeling you don't want to push her too hard for fear of losing her. Well yeah, if she can't step up to the plate and fix her issues, then you should push her away. You don't want her back half-ass. She has to show some fight, some real fear that if she doesn't straighten up, she will lose you. If she's not scared of losing you, then she has no incentive to change.

I know it's hard to do the above suggestions when what you really want is for your WS to do the work needed to R, but you are only going to get rugswept and face more DDays in the future unless she is truly dedicated to changing. I think the lip piercing speaks volumes. She is showing you that she is NOT willing to do whatever it takes to get this relationship back to something healthy, and you need to draw your line in the sand and say "NO!" until she is willing.

It's hard to be strong when your heart is breaking, but you need to toughen your heart a little and make your brain do the work for a little while. As many wise people have said, believe 50% of what you see and ZERO PERCENT of what you hear. You said it yourself. Her actions are not matching her words. HER ACTIONS ARE THE TRUTH.

I'm so sorry for what she is putting you through. Having an unremorseful spouse is hell. I actually disagree with previous posters who said that she will pull her head out of her ass one day. My STBX's head is still firmly up his ass, and it's been almost a year. He is STILL blaming me for everything, and he hasn't sincerely apologized even one time. It was his bad childhood, his bad parents, his bad job, me, etc.. He STILL hasn't taken responsibility for what he did. I wish there was a way to open their eyes, or get them to admit to us it's their fault, but sometimes you don't get that, and you just have to live without. I honestly don't think my STBX will ever sincerely apologize for the hell he has put me through. I hope I'm wrong, but he's too much of an entitled POS. I'm sorry, but your wife also sounds very entitled and proud, so I don't know that things are going to change.

And I hate to guess, but I would think that she's had a fight with one of the OM and doesn't have anybody at the moment and that's why she's asking to come home. Given she didn't take the piercing out, I don't think she's coming home because she wants to fix herself or the marriage. I think she misses the comfort of home, but it doesn't sound like she's willing to fight for it.

I hope I'm wrong about her, but please, PLEASE, watch her actions and do NOT listen to her words. You deserve respect, and she's lied and deceived you so many times and still doesn't sound all that sorry about it. She needs to be doing the heavy lifting here. Please read up on the 180 and do it. In real R, the BS is allowed to ask questions over and over again, and the WS should calmly and honestly answer every question every time without getting frustrated. She lost your trust, and she has to earn it back. She doesn't get to just walk back in there like it's her choice whether you guys R or not. You have a choice on whether you want to R or not, and don't give her the gift of R until she earns it.

Be strong Hatingthis247. None of us want to be here, but there are so many great people on this site, and I hope you get the support you need..

((((Hatingthis247))))

I want to provide an update, and ask for more support, but I’m going to try and keep my emotions and thoughts out of this post as much as possible, because they are all over the place and I feel I cannot trust them. Despite how I feel I know what I must do.

At the time of my last post she was told that she could (if she wanted to) stay at the house until she found other arrangements. I told her there would be no discussions and no arguing. That we would show each other respect and concentrate on our daughter and day to day lives until she was ready to move out.

Yesterday she took our daughter to daycare and went shopping. She sent me a text saying she was going to the store and that she had left me something in my office. It was a letter saying that she was sorry for all the bad things she has done and knew that the lip piercing was the last straw. She said she wished she could fix this and work it out with me but that she knew her last chance was ruined with the lie she told when getting the piercing. The jewelry from her piercing was taped to the bottom of the letter.

The only thing I said about the letter was to ask her if she was still staying at the house until she found a place and took it back downstairs and set it on the bed for her when she got back. I appreciated what she said but they are still just words and coming from her they mean nothing right now. I also didn’t want that jewelry. I suppose I could have thrown it out, but it’s hers. In a way it’s a symbol of what she chose over me and her family. She can do whatever she wants with it. She said that she wanted to stay at the house only if it was ok with me, and that she has hurt me so much and she didn’t want to hurt me or our daughter anymore. I just said that’s fine with me. I’ll see ya later, and told her she needed to try and get some sleep. She said she’s fine, that she hasn’t been getting much sleep lately anyways. I didn't respond.

She called and text a few times throughout the day, just saying random things. She called to ask if we needed milk. She got her car stuck in some mud at the house and I helped her get it out, so she text to say thanks for that. She called again to say she forgot something at the store and asked if I could pick it up. Once we were both home she came upstairs quite a few times, again just asking random things and even brought up a tasting of the dinner she was making (never done that before that I remember). Every time she communicated with me I responded and acted and politely as I could manage. She sent me a text from downstairs saying that she was sorry she kept coming upstairs and that she would leave me alone. I didn’t respond.

Part of my 180 has been to start playing music again. I’ve not played in quite a while and missed it badly. The weekend while she was away from home I had my friend come over and we had our first practice in years! I’m getting the band back together! lol. She heard me upstairs playing acoustic guitar and singing and sent me a text message saying it’s good to hear you sing and play again, and that she has missed it. I didn’t respond.

Later that night before she went to work she asked about trick or treating with our daughter. I politely told her I wanted to be a part of it, that I wanted it to be just the three of us, and that I would be open to any suggestions as to wear we go that she may have. Once she got to work she text me saying that she didn’t know how long it would take her to find an apartment, but that she doesn’t know if she will be able to stay at the house any longer during this process. I told her that was completely understandable and thanked her for helping out while she was here. She said she was sorry, that she was very depressed and upset, and then said “I know I shouldn’t be bothering you with all this.” I didn’t respond.

So we are all going trick or treating together this evening. I plan to invest my attention fully into my daughter and hope it turns out to be a wonderful night. After that I guess she may be moving back out again. I still know what I want, but now I realize I don’t need to be in a rush to get it. It will happen if it happens and if not, at least I’m getting the band back together!

[This message edited by Hatingthis247 at 12:01 PM, October 31st (Thursday)]

Care about you. Everything was my fault too. It got so bad that I was getting yelled at for stuff he literally made up (others witnessed and confirmed fake issues). There is no R unless they stop doing that, its impossible. You can stay and deal with it, but not R.

Selfishness is when a person puts their needs and desires first and foremost, ahead of any consideration of decency fairness and morality. That just about describes your wife. She wants an exciting affair because it makes her feel good, so she goes right out and finds one; which is pretty easy for most women. You are just collateral damage.

If you reconcile then you will have to accept this selfishness; its part of her personality. Also the probability that if your marriage has a downturn she will cheat again; or if an especially attractive guy hits on her.

Right now I'm betting she's planning to move out, have a few exciting affairs, live the life of a single girl, then when it gets a bit lonely and boring being a 'single mom', reconcile. Just needs you to hang around desperate and waiting.

Your marriage has turned out to be a power struggle. Just read the posts from DefeatedDad; living proof that being fair but tough and taking no garbage from the WS, is a winning strategy.

Man, if had a nickle for every time I heard of a WS saying, "I wish I could fix this, BUT...."

Including my own STBX.. Just another lame excuse for not wanting to do the hard work needed to fix their issues and fight for the marriage..

You are doing great HT. She's still talking about moving out, and she seems to be trying to rugsweep. I bet she thinks if she just plays nice and gets you to play nice, then what she did wasn't so bad.

Keep going with the 180. It takes a lot of strength to keep listening to your head and not your heart, and I admire how strong you've been.

That's great you are getting together with friends and playing some music! That's another big part of the 180, focusing on yourself and doing things you enjoy.

I know it's hard, but you're doing great. Hugs..

Trick or Treating (actually trunk or treating at our neighborhood church) went well! Our daughter had a great time playing games, went on a “tractor train” ride, and of course got lots of candy, some of which I will be helping her dispose of. WS and I got along well (kept it together) the whole time and it was a really nice.

Before and after were pretty rough though. It seems like it’s really hitting her hard now. When she left to pick up our daughter from daycare she came upstairs and I could see she had been crying. Once they got back home she laid down on the bed and I could hear her crying more. I knew she needed to get some rest so told her I would wake her up in time for trunk or treat but she quickly answered that she was not going to sleep. She got up and started gathering things and going out to her car multiple times. She told me last night she didn’t think she could stay at the house so I assumed she wasn’t coming home after TOT. I decided to ask her about her plans, because I need to base mine around them, and she said she was not going to leave.

After TOT she went back to bed for a nap before work and I twisted the knife a bit. I’ve been having her change passwords on accounts I have access to and showing her that I’ve disabled/removed any of the software I was using for transparency. I suppose I feel like this is showing her I’m moving on and don’t care anymore, but really I’m constantly wondering what she is doing and who she is talking to. There was one last account I had access to that allowed me to have GPS tracking on her phone. I pulled up the accounts password reset page on my phone, handed it to her, and asked her to go ahead and change it since it’s the last one. Afterwards she was crying quite loudly.

I started feeling terrible. I really did feel a sense of relief when she changed the password. I really want to just stop obsessing over what she is doing all the time and start spending more time on me. Hearing her cry like that tore me up though. I still love this woman with all my heart. I went into the bedroom and laid down with her. I rubbed her back and told her that I hated seeing her so upset. I asked her if she wanted me to leave and she said no and we held hands for a while. Nothing else was said and after a few minutes I told her to get some sleep and left the room. When she woke up we didn’t say anything to each other until she left for work and then only said see you in the morning.

Not sure what to feel or think at this point. Being close to her like that brought back lots of feelings from better times, but the multiple betrayals and dishonesty are still running very strong as well. The truth is this woman just scares the hell out of me right now.

Bro, just want you to know that you cant fix her. She must do it herself. Also I strongly caution you that consoling her it probably one of the worst things you can do. She must feel the pain she caused. She must own it and figure out how to fix it. I understand that you love her. But keep in mind what she has done and deal with your own pain right now. She is setting herself up to be the victim with her poor pitiful me act. She is trying to solicit sympathy from you and your feeding right onto it. I'd bet you a weeks pay that if you ignore and take a hard line attitude like you should. Her tears will turn to anger, blame and rage. And it will be directed right at you my man. Her behavior is typical for a WS who cant squirm out of their web of lies. If she is honestly remorseful it will show through her actions, not her words. 180 hard and see what happens. I may be wrong, but I think my prediction will come true.

Its really hard dealing with the tears. Because you don't know if those tears are for you, herself, the OM or even the loss of her fantasy life. The only sure fire method of finding out is to stick to your guns and do not let her think this can be swept under the proverbial rug. Taking a hard line approach is not being mean. You are not kicking her when she is down. You are protecting yourself from future pain. You are enabling your own healing. There are a few certainties when dealing with infidelity. You cant nice them out of the fog, you cant fix them and you certainly should not console them from the mess they created. I know I sound like a hard ass dude. But I've been there and have made the same mistakes I see you doing. And I have to be honest with you here. None of it is going to help your situation. The only thing that works is to be firm and strong. What happens next in her life is up to her. She made her bed and she must sleep in it. Good luck !!!

Your WW is suffering from the grass is always greener syndrome. Became dissatisfied with her relationship; thought she could do better. This led to exciting addictive affairs which she now realizes have shattered her marriage.

You may be willing to forgive but can she live in a marriage containing so much guilt? Its sinking in with her that this guilt is forever and that is not acceptable. Part of her wishes you would just divorce her and both of you move on, another part doesn't want to lose the security of home and family.

You have yet to find out about the full extent of her affairs and thats going to be a shock because they always minimize. Quite a mess.

She has to let go of this false pride and desire to control her fate. At this time you have to let go and move on; if she shows utmost remorse and a sincere desire to reconcile then you can consider this. Right now you need to be tough and show her that you are building an independent life. The rest is up to her, but she needs to let go of her arrogance or the marriage is as good as over.

Hi HT. I'm glad your DD had fun TorTing.

I'm with the others - you can't kind of do the 180. You are either doing it, or you're not. You have seen the response from WW for just a few days of pulling away and working on you instead of following her wondering what else YOU can do. She is suddenly not bold and cold, but scared and waking up. She is seeing htat her life as she knows t is over, and that you aren't a doormat. She is seeing the seriousness of her actions. Now isn't the time to back off.

You commented that you 'twisted the knife". This really isn't what the 180 is for either. It's for you to detach. If you are waiting for some miracle response, you'll probably get it, but it won't be sincere. It will be enough for you to R, but that's it, and that behavior will end with her fears. 180 for you, so that you can let go if necessary.

Please, no more comforting, no more twisting, no more hand holding or offers to wake her up. She wanted this, so give it to her. Let her see what her life will be because of her actions. .And you need to detach more. You are still very involved with her actions and feelings. Those are hers. Until she comes to you, if that happens, then she isn't your concern. You are and your DD is, but that's it. She's on her own.

It's nice to see your WW coming around and realizing the damage her actions have caused. Please don't let her stop with these surface discoveries. Don't stop preparing to let go if that is what is necessary.

Right now - just right now - your love for her does not matter. Your love for you should be your sole focus.