SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

She is upset that we don't live in or own a home after five years of marriage.

She is? Well, why doesn't she take her massive salary and trust fund and buy a home? What's that? She has neither of those? Then who is she to be complaining about not owning a home? If she can't buy one all by herself then she really shouldn't be bitching about it to you.

And since when is screaming a feeling? It's a physical feeling, but she should really have an ounce of modesty and not want to be screaming in the scenario you've presented.

To me, it sounds like she is really upset about something else, and used this as a way to vent. I doubt this is the real issue because telling a yelling woman to keep it down is not something to flip out over.

I'm curious how the discussion went last night. Did it go well?

I have older children, but still...I don't want my kids hearing us having sex. I can control myself quite a bit so my kids aren't wanting to bang on the walls, let alone neighbors. Seriously? Is she trying to act like a porn star? Does she feel she has to be loud? I'd be horrified if I knew my kids could hear us, regardless of age. Does it turn her on to know the neighbors can hear? Is it a form of attention or validation? That just feels so off.

did you screw up? NO, unless you count not calling her out on her selfishness.

I'm sorry but she was the WS, and she is still manipulating you and making you feel bad. Why in world does she need to put on a show, and holler and scream whan you are going at it at 6am? Seriously?

This is coming from someone who also gets to have multiple O's when we have sex, and honestly I can be really loud, but when the kids are home I try to keep it to low grunts, or use a pillow to stifle the sounds. She should have some self respect, and dignity. Not flaunting it for the kids and neighbors to know that she getting off while the rest of the world is getting up.

As far as I am concerned this is attention seeking behavior, the loudness, the crying after, the manipulative bs of "stifling" her feelings.

She needs to find a better way to express her feelings other than blaming others.

I'm sorry, but she doesn't get it yet.

Totally attention seeking as Tush says. I find it very concerning. Is she in IC?

I think what you did was perfectly reasonable and she is just looking for a reason to be mad.

And the not caring about the neighbors, much less your KIDS, makes me think she's still in selfish land.

Wow, I wish I had more time to respond to individual posts and suggestions. Maybe I will later. I apologize if I didn't respond to you personally. I am THANKFUL FOR ALL OF YOUR COMMENTS, SUGGESTIONS AND CONCERN.

To respond to some specifics: Right now, she is NOT in IC. Our insurance won't allow her to see two therapists at once. Since I'm in IC, that's my therapist. The MC counts as her therapist. This is bad for us as you'll soon read/see. I don't to talk US politics. We're not allowed to in this forum.

A few of asked me to talk about what happened last night, when we talked. When I have time, I may start a new thread as this topic is evolving.

Long story short, the topic of our morning lovemaking was MINOR, although discussed and she agreed to keep it down. As I suspected, it was something much greater. As I felt, she asked to let out of the relationship. She told me that she didn't respect me and didn't feel she could move on from all of the damage that has occurred in the relationship. She told me that she is not in love with me and doesn't think she'll be able to change how she feels.

She also told me that as hard as this was, she wanted to keep the divorce/split as amicable as possible as we would be dealing with our children. She told me that she wanted to be happy and that she wanted me to be happy and that this was the best way.

She then began to be honest, finally, as she has not been completely honest in MC. She told me of a ONS before we were married, she told me of a ONS, from one year ago when her father died. She began to tell me of the sexual abuse she received as a child, and as a teenager from family members and non-family members. She told me of the two times she was raped as a teenager. As I love her, my heart sank and I felt her pain. She needs IC badly. So badly that I think I may see if I can get my shrink to go pro-bono with me, so I can be the patient for MC and she can then get the IC she desperately needs. She may be a sex addict, I don't know. But she is not a throwaway, and my family is not a throwaway. I believe that this can be salvaged, but she needs to love me and respect me and right now she doesn't. I asked her if there is any chance that her perspective could change - she responded "Yes, but I'm not sure if its possible. I don't know if I can get over it." I told her, this is why we need MC and you need IC. I reminded her that we've been in MC only two months. I asked her for a little more time to see what evolves. She did admit that things have gotten a little better but that ultimately, she doesn't feel she can shake her feelings. I kept on it and asked her to simply see the MC process out. I believe that this is part of the process.

I didn't not accept this resignation from the relationship. She did not believe my response. I told her that I had imagined the worst possible scenario. That she had sex with the NY Giants Football team for 2 years. The entire team...without protection. I put this in my head to get over her infidelities. I knew that other things had happened but that she wasn't ready to tell me.

She believes I deserve better person and partner. She's right, I do. I told her "I deserve a better YOU. Let's make it happen. I am not allowing you to quit on me, on this marriage and on this family without putting in your best possible effort in MC and IC. You haven't done that yet. When you do and it's obvious that this your feelings aren't going to change, then we're done. I told her that it was as if we were digging for oil and we were two feet from it and she decided to call it quits because we hadn't hit oil yet. I told her, "Quit being so selfish and looking for an easy way out. It's time to confront all of these issues and sort through them. If we don't make it out together, at least we'll make it out. But the lying, the cowardice, the bullshit, it all stops here and our new lives starts NOW."

FYI, last night and this AM, we did have sex, but she kept it to a minimum with volume, but doubled the orgasm rate.

While I'm glad that she was honest, I am not some monster like Ariel Castro from Cleveland, I will not hold her hostage. I just want her to honor her vows and work through the issues.

I forgot, does anyone have the direct page link/thread to doing the 180? I need it badly to protect myself and prepare for the worst case scenario if it happens and also to prepare myself to move on if needed.

Are you sure her A hasn't gone underground? A lot of her "reasons" sound very much like she may still be active in an affair.

I'm sure her affair/A hasn't gone underground. I have access to her phone and I am tracking it with a program, I can see what she does, what sites she went to and many other things. She did admit though that she was not completely over the affair and still has feelings for her AP. I told her that she would need to work through it. I also made it clear that contact with him is absolutely not permitted.

You are a very compassionate man, Reegz. Kudos for what sounds like a breakthrough in honesty on your WW's part.

Yes, I agree that you both have nothing to lose and everything to gain by doing your best to improve/heal yourselves.

You can find the 180 in the Healing Library. BS FAQ's #11. That is probably a good idea, Reegz. Did you get the feeling she was remorseful?

eta: Oh, just read your last post about your WW still having "feelings" for the AP. (hhmmm, had a feeling she was pissed at you for "stifling her feelings" for AP) Yeah, the 180 is an excellent idea. Do not let her cry on your shoulder about AP, which it doesn't sound like either of you have allowed this to happen.

Also, another suggestion. How about dropping MC for now since WW isn't all in anyway? I feel it is pointless to do MC in that case. Can you both go to IC's and drop the MC? I feel that would be the better thing at this point. Yes, your WW really needs IC!

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 10:30 AM, October 30th (Wednesday)]

Your wife needs counseling, desperately. If your therapist won't go probono, then please, consider pausing either your therapy or the MC. She has traumas that are far beyond the A, and then of course the A. She needs help. Please see that she gets it.

I think you are very loving to be willing to R with all of these revelations. The 'not respecting' you is concerning. Is that because you are willing to accept all of this? If so, she clearly doesn't see the strength and love that this takes, but also if it is, and you want to save your family, I think you're going to have to start making HER the one to want R, not you. She may feel that you're willing to let her walk all over you, and that isn't something most women want (or men, either).

Here is the link you've requested

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

Also, regarding your comment about tracking her phone and activities - it is so very common for a WS to buy a burner phone to communicate with OP. I think this reason accounts for about 90% of the sale of these disposable phones. Please don't assume that because you can see one phone's activity that there are not other ways to communicate. She does sound very deep into it, and the A being taken underground is a very real possibility.

I'm not trying to hurt you - I'm just trying to help you see that with a WS, things are absolutely not always as they appear.

@painfulpast - Yes, you're correct, it's because of this. I told her exactly what you said, how strong I am to accept this. I'm not sure if she was buying it. I do want HER to start to want the R, I told her it would be lots of work and she needs to be willing to do it instead of taking the easy way out.

In regards to burner phone, I asked and I've searched my entire apartment. I've found nothing. You're right. Things are not always as they appear. While I feel we've made a huge breakthrough, I also feel that I'm still walking on eggshells and to make myself feel better, I'm seeing an attorney on Friday.

If she's really a survivor of multiple abuses and rapes, she needs a good therapist who specializes in recovering from sexual abuse and/or trauma.

Not everybody in that specialty is effective as a therapist, so be very careful in picking one. One basic protection is to check to ensure the therapist hasn't been sanctioned by any state or professional organization.