SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

HBD you're doing great.

HurtbutHopeful: "Now get ready for your WW and OM to talk and see what comes of that. Hopefully OM will throw your W under the bus. That will be a big wake-up call for her."

I hope you don't mean talk to each other. They have not had any contact since the affair, other than one accidental run-in at the grocery store when he was with his wife. If you mean talk to their spouses (my wife talks to me, he talks to his BS), I'm sure he is doing that right now and spinning his own tale. He is a serial liar. I fully expect him to throw my WW under the bus and hope he does.

[This message edited by HeartbrokenDude at 7:11 AM, November 15th (Friday)]

"I'm really proud of your capacity to own your own behavior while drawing a line at hers. You're a champion communicator."

Thanks, Jrazz. It's funny, I never thought of myself that way before. But my wife is astounded at how I've guided us through this, both in talks together and in marriage counseling. I've surprised myself, frankly.

5454real: You've touched on the heart of the matter, here, and I think you're right. Our marriage counselor told my wife that she has co-dependent behaviors (I almost did a slow clap in the session). The fact of the matter is, she grew up with an alcoholic mother, had to take care of herself from a very early age, and had no childhood to speak of. She has low self-esteem on top of that, and feeds off attention. She has no real hobbies or interests to speak of, though she has taken up running and is actually quite good, finishing in the top half of her first few road races. So there is some hope there that she can find something that makes her happy beyond attention.

She is a good person (I would have said a great person before all of this) and at age 40 has never strayed, and I have to believe she won't again after this trauma. But it's impossible for me to know that or prevent another affair; ultimately that will be her choice. There is only so much I can do. She needs to heal herself. The good news is that this has become the focus of her individual counseling. We have identified the problem, which is the first step.

I debated on putting that paragraph in, but I did it to show her that I am here for her no matter what. The only way I would leave her is if she breaks NC or obviously has another affair; I would leave her in a second if that happens, and she knows that.

But my wife is astounded at how I've guided us through this, both in talks together and in marriage counseling. I've surprised myself, frankly.

Right here is the secret silver lining to all of this heartache. If we can use the chaos to learn more about ourselves, we actually get to take something away from the process. If our FWS's do the same, the relationship has a chance of being more solid than ever.

Either way, learning and growing from this is the best we can do. You're so early in the process, if you feel yourself slip don't be discouraged. It's a crazy rollercoaster for a while but you have the right outlook.

But my wife is astounded at how I've guided us through this, both in talks together and in marriage counseling. I've surprised myself, frankly.

You've done an outstanding job in a short period of time, and like a good parent, correct balance of hard discipline with soft love, with consistency. kudos to you. Your wife is lucky to have you.

Excellent letter and good job outing the OM to his BS. The letter resonated with me and mirrors my own situation.

You put it all on the line, your desire to understand your wife and her flaws, your desire to keep your marriage, heal yourself and make the corrections to your marriage.

I also had basically checked out of my marriage, but didn't cheat. She did, not me. Wouldn't have ever dreamed of cheating. That is the difference my friend. The flaws in our spouses. My wife just came out of her funk a couple weeks ago. The talks we have had since are so different now. The remorse is there, as I believe you will start to see more and more of it yourself. I wish you the best of luck!

When I told you about his hateful comments to me you said “it didn’t change anything.” I was forced to endure you saying how “special” it was

Oh hell no. That would have sent me over the edge. I really hope that sentiment is long gone or somehow not an issue any more because if she still has the slightest, even the slightest feelings like that remaining inside her it is time to host a real come to Jesus party.

That just plain shows a complete lack of respect for you and the pain she made you suffer and deserves an explanation big time. That would easily be a deal breaker for me.

I really wish you luck in your recovery but do not roll over and accept the blame for someone who was so callous as to do and say the things she did. It appears to me that no matter what your marriage was lacking or not lacking she was going to eventually do this anyway.

You did nothing wrong, period. Make her understand that and never accept the OM being any kind of special, ever.

[This message edited by TwoHearts at 3:24 AM, November 16th (Saturday)]

But she had no answers for these questions, no answers to the horrors she committed

Like most others who have posted, your letter resonates quite a bit with my experience.

My DDays are much more recent, but my WW seems remorseful and committed to R, just as yours does. Even so, I'm not optimistic that she's going to be able to give good answers to questions about why her infidelities happened any time soon. There are some indications that she will eventually be able to do so--some glimmers of awareness. WW seems reasonably forthright (though not completely, I think) about the what questions--what happened and when. But there's a lot of minimizing and blameshifting going on whenever I ask the why questions.

A lot of times I doubt that it's worth even asking those questions. On the other hand, I worry that progress in our R requires coming to grips with these questions and so also requires that we continue to ask the why questions even when I can predict that the response is going to be so foggy, foggy, foggy and that they're going to make me more than a little aggravated at times.

I guess one question I have is whether you're asking because you need answers for yourself, for your own healing, or if you need to ask so that your WW can confront herself and start to heal. Either way (and it could be both, of course), you'll have to be patient.

Or that's what I'm telling myself, anyway.

Stay strong, and stay positive, brother.

[This message edited by lloyddobler at 5:51 AM, November 16th (Saturday)]

BIG UPDATE 2: Talked to the OW again yesterday for another 10 minutes on the phone; he is lying to her and has her convinced that he and my wife did not have sex, only talked on the phone, and that my wife has mental problems and is trying to divorce me and made this whole thing up as some elaborate hoax. The OW asked me repeatedly for evidence that they had sex; I told her about the voice mails in which he said to her “I know you like that rough stuff” and a few pet names I heard (awful shit to dredge up). I told her about the phone calls every day to and from work, 40 minutes or more in length; the dozens of daily texts into the early evenings, and the fact that I have extensive records of such. Told her about their encounters just before July 4, on August 6, their complete familiarity with each other at their house, etc. I told her about my wife's utter honesty. OW kept saying she didn’t believe it; that she “knew” her husband, but I think by the end she knew that she was being lied to.

Frankly I love the fact that he is throwing my my wife under the bus; if there was lingering feelings for him, they are now utterly gone. Rats are leaving the sinking ship, my friends.

She tried to call my wife at work yesterday and my wife didn’t answer, then blocked her number from our phones. Probably the best thing, but I also wonder if my wife is just trying to cover up everything and move on.

Wife wrote me a great text today: “I know u do (love me) because u wouldn’t put up with the shit I’ve thrown on ur plate otherwise. I am so thankful for ur supportive and unconditional love! I hope u know that. I adore u and ur strength :)”

To which I wrote: “I am a strong son of a bitch, aren’t I? This affair made me cry like a baby, but it did not break me.”

We spoke again after marriage counseling, and I now have got the final piece I wanted, the only thing I want for Christmas; she is calling him a piece of dogshit and worthless scum, admits that everything—everything—was a lie, and that there are no good memories left. That is gone. This came after we had a laugh about his lies to his wife. Told **** if she sees him again she should spit in his face, because he is a selfish monster and destroyer. She agrees. She agrees!! The fucking 180 degree enlightenment has occurred, all that bullshit I endured for 3 months is gone. I know believe wholeheartedly he is dirt, and history.

We had a great counseling session, but I learned one minor detail that galled me: He apparently said in the supermarket to her “do you miss me?” NOT “how are you doing?” as my wife had previously said. It seems so minor, but a) it was not the whole truth, and b) The former is much less innocent and is still actively fishing; I hope he rots in hell and his wife kicks him out first. His wife was in the next aisle over and he was still fishing with my wife, the bastard. Die in a fire.

[This message edited by HeartbrokenDude at 7:42 AM, November 16th (Saturday)]

Jrazz: "Right here is the secret silver lining to all of this heartache. If we can use the chaos to learn more about ourselves, we actually get to take something away from the process. If our FWS's do the same, the relationship has a chance of being more solid than ever."

Thank you, thank you. I have learned about myself and my wife, and believe she has too.

Still-living: "You've done an outstanding job in a short period of time, and like a good parent, correct balance of hard discipline with soft love, with consistency. kudos to you. Your wife is lucky to have you."

I agree, she is lucky to have me. She made the most colossal mistake of her life and we are moving on. She has had her second chance and there will never be another.

Smokehouse: "I also had basically checked out of my marriage, but didn't cheat. She did, not me. Wouldn't have ever dreamed of cheating. That is the difference my friend. The flaws in our spouses."

Sounds like we're in the same boat, my friend. When was your d-day?

Our marriage was not great, but it was servicable, and I thought we had mutual respect for each other, if not bright passion. I got burned, badly. If I have learned nothing else from this experience, it is that you cannot ever really see into someone else's heart, and truth is the most important quality in a person.

Twohearts: "Oh hell no. That would have sent me over the edge. I really hope that sentiment is long gone or somehow not an issue any more because if she still has the slightest, even the slightest feelings like that remaining inside her it is time to host a real come to Jesus party."

I agree completely; I could not have gone on in our marriage with her holding some sunshine and roses view of the affair in her head. Per my latest post however that is now gone, I have aired out the stink and shined the light on the vampire--and staked it.

lloyddobler: Sorry man, that is awful. It will get better. It took my wife more than 2 1/2 months to come out of her affair fog, during which I had to endure blameshifting and even a low-level defense of the piece of shit other married man. Be patient, be kind, but be firm, let her know how much her actions hurt you, let her know you still love her (if you still do) and how the truth is what you need to heal, and the truth will come.

Her answers will be foggy at this time and know that you will have to re-ask questions because you might not get the entire truth, or you will get truth through affair-fogged glasses. I needed to know questions like: "How could you lie to me probably 50-60 times over a year? Did you ever think of the children and the damage you were potentially wreaking on them? Was it worth sleeping with a married man 20 years older than you and throwing away everything you had for that piece of shit? Did you know what you had to lose?" and so on. The questions were more for my benefit, but I also wanted to get inside her head and get her thinking rationally again. She was utterly irrational for a year of her life, like someone addicted to drugs. She now sees that she was.

The only thing I don't know at this point is the details of what went on in the bedroom, and I'm not sure how will that will help me so I am not planning to go there. I think I know about everything else I care to know, but I'm sure I will be hurt by additional minor revelations down the line. It's still early for me.

[This message edited by HeartbrokenDude at 9:00 AM, November 16th (Saturday)]

Im sorry,but I disagree that your WW blocking the BW from calling her is the right thing to do. The BW is obviously being lied to. She is trying to piece together what happened. Your WW can help her with that. She inserted herself into this woman's marriage..and now that the dirty secret is out..now she wants to hide. Sorry,but that's shitty. I don't think your WW should be harassed or threatened. but i do think the very least she owes this woman is one phone call,in which she answers the BW's questions. That is most likely what the BW is looking for. Continued contact..no. But one call..so the BW can ask her questions? Absolutely. hell, if the BW just wants to tell her off..doesn't she deserve that much? Your WW fucked her husband...and she doesn't even get one call to tell her to stay away..or ask her what happened?

Did you actually give him BW the proof you said you had? She is clearly trying to figure out what has happened to her life. She deserves the truth. And,if your WW is truly remorseful, then talking on the phone and answering the BW's questions would be helpful..not only for the BW..but for your WW. She needs to fully understand that she also devastated another woman..his wife...and another family.

[This message edited by confused615 at 9:08 AM, November 16th (Saturday)]

God, I think you are right, Confused615. How the hell am I going to get my wife to call?