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And Falco: You can’t deal with this by ignoring it.

Brilliant, just brilliant.

You are right!

I apologize for saying people are bitter.

I am trying to do the right thing and what I feel.

So,I will stop anymore songs and suck up my emotions when around her.

How do I interacte on a day to day.

Don't hug, kiss, just avoid and be strong?

You are right she is seeing me be who she wanted in the past, emotionally connected.

The 180 is how to act, and again, it's for you.

One thing that's hard to accept, but needs to be accepted, is that we cannot control them. We can only control ourselves.

You need to let it go. Seems impossible, but that's what's needed. Let it go. When you feel it entering - take a deep breath, and as you exhale image you're letting out all of the 'control' you want to have over this mess. You control YOU.

What we say - don't be nice, no more songs, etc. - isn't to punish her. It's to save you. Every time you do something like that, and she doesn't respond, another little piece of you dies. Another piece feels less in control of your life. Another piece feels like you're world is slipping away. Don't do that - don't set yourself up for that. And DON'T REWARD HER FOR CHEATING BY SHOWERING HER WITH LOVE.

She loves OM? Ok, let her hug and kiss him. You're not snuggling up to someone that is in love with another man. Why comfort her while she dreams of him? How is that going to get her to see anything but that her actions are just fine? It isn't.

Again, we've been there. We have. We know you want her to wake up, come to you, tell you she has been a fool and that she is so desperately sorry and that she loves YOU. As long as you reward her behavior, that won't happen. She hasn't lost you, so how will she realize it's you she wants? All she's lost is him. And trust me - if you do this long enough, she'll be gone forever.

Just read the 180, and realize it's for you, and then practice it. Be nice but don't start the conversations. Look your best. Smile. Do things outside of the house that you enjoy. You may not enjoy the activities the first time, and your mind will be on her and what she's doing, but that will change quickly - you will see. And you'll feel better, and stronger. You need to mentally get away from this mess she's caused.

And no worries on the bitter question. We all know it would be great if this site were just a bunch of bitter people that wanted more people to divorce and be angry - but that's not us. We want what you want, whatever that is. We support you, but we won't sit back and watch you make the same mistakes so many make in the beginning. We want you to succeed for YOU.

You're just papering over the cracks in this marriage, hoping she will eventually 'forget' her love for the OM and fall back in love with you. It may be that the present cessation in your sex life is related to her passionate feelings for her Twin flame; doesn't want to sully her body by allowing you your marital rights. Right now in her mind she still emotionally belongs to her soulmate and you are the fallback option/ father to her children/security.

Whats lacking is your anger and outrage at the blatant disrespect for both you and the marriage. Since that is lacking further advice is pretty well useless. You are terrified of losing the marriage and you will dance to whatever tune she decides to play.

Thank you all. I am in a weak spot and do needd to step up and put my foot down harder.

So should I no longer kiss or hug her back? Be more of a roommate.

If I stop being that way it will confuse her should Ido the 180 and be with her??

The 180 is supposed to detach you from her. The side effect is often that the WS notices and begins to pull closer. Why? They get into the A because of something broken in them. Two people feeding their ego makes them feel less broken. When the BS pulls away that balance is gone. So some WSs will seek the BS out again.

If you want to distance from her until she realizes that a BH that loves he enough to try to work through a betrayal like this is better than a lying cheater who used her for sex, then do the 180. It will serve you in the long run if she doesn't wake up from the fog.

Don't use it as a manipulation tool. It could backfire. Use it for you, not on her.

I have to say...she's being the fool. Please don't hold out too long for her to come back to sanity. Often that just leads to more damage to your heart. Tell her she's free to be with him...oh wait, he doesn't want her.

This twin flame stuff is crap.

Certainly kissing and hugging her back sends the message that you are OK with her frame of mind, her attitude and your position in the relationship.

You need to talk to your wife firmly but decisively about the current situation. Explain that you cannot be affectionate and conduct a normal marriage relationship [including sleeping together] with her foolishly mooning after this guy, who incidentally wants nothing more to do with her. Urge her to seek IC for help with her problems, including why she isn't feeling some empathy for what you must be going through. Explain that eventual separation is on the table unless she modifies her approach and starts to understand just what true remorse really is.

You should be alarmed at her attitude and as I mentioned before angry at what she has done to you and your children. Without a sense of outrage it tells her that you have little self-esteem and if you don't value yourself, then whats the point of expecting your WW to respect you?

She needs to understand that you are NOT ok with her behavior, and serious changes need to implemented before you send her any more sweet, romantic songs.

Felco, even though it seems like the advice given to you here is counterintuitive and given out of bitterness, as others have mentioned before, it has been done to try to prevent you from accruing more pain for yourself.

You ask about the 180, and many here have explained that it is for you, and you alone. Many have also predicted what will happen if/when you implement the 180. The only thing I can offer to that, based off what I've read and personally experienced, is that a temporary 180 will not work. If you start the 180 process, and she seemingly wakes up, continue to watch her actions and let her show you that her changes are here to stay. Don't let her skate by with minimal and temporary actions. She will think she only needs to do the bare minimum to reel you back in before she reverts back to her old behavior. If she is consistent in her behavior, then you can start to trust and invest in her again.

I say this after another very recent DDay, almost to the day, but not out of anger or bitterness. I've realized that I do not have any at this moment. I am letting go of that because I know that as long as I keep those feelings, I will never forget the pain and move past it.

It seems as if we are all giving you the same advice. It's because we have either all experienced it ourselves (many of us more than once), or because we have seen it too many times. We all wish and hope for the best for all the members here and truly do hope that there is a rare case that a WS can be "niced" back into a relationship. So far, I don't think any of us have seen that yet. We are only trying to spare you more pain and suffering.

We all wish you the very best; we truly do.

Ok, I am the nice guy. But, I will be strong and do the 180. I really think I need it. I get weak when I feel the distance and think about raising my kids in two households.

We had some rough emotional connections prior to the A but I felt like it was not that bad. But obviously she needed more.

To be honest it is fear of the unknown and being in limbo.

So, we are suppose to see my family together tonight and I told her I would like her to go for me. Then just now she asked if i want her to go to be tortured. I told her no. I told her do what you want.

Wedding band on or off?

All I have to say is this sucks!

I am a mess and not that consistent

[This message edited by Felco at 3:11 PM, December 25th (Wednesday)]

I decided to go alone to my families house. I am being a see saw!!

To be honest it is fear of the unknown and being in limbo.

Felco,

So sorry you are experiencing what I and so many others have. Recognizing that fear of the unknown (and fear of so much else--rejection, abandonment, loss of control) is a good step. When I was where you are I knew that so much of what I was rendered frozen by was based in fear.

But what you should fear is limbo--not knowing where you stand, wondering if she has really left him in both body AND mind, and of course agonizing over if she will do it again.

I was in limbo for almost a year: begging, pleading, reasoning, analyzing, blaming myself... So desperate was I to not lose my family. The whole time she was continuing her affair essentially in my face, as I backed off my threats of divorce every time she cried some tears, told me she needed to"get over him," and on and on.

It was the worst experience of my life--limbo. Fear it, Felco, for it is a soul destroyer. Get out of it. Lay down the law and be prepared to follow through. Watching my wife (for the few weeks she'd actually ended it with him) miss her AP was a special rung in limbo hell. I have never been so humiliated and ashamed even now when I think about what I allowed myself to endure. She has no--NO--right to put you through this after the crimes she already has committed.

Don't let this continue any longer. Find your indignation, your outrage, and act on it immediately. If she is offended by your outrage, your lack of passivity, is this the woman you want to be with? Is she deserving of your love?

It took me way too long to find mine. Everything everyone here is telling you told me the same. I rationalized, I denied, I protested, I was angry at their stern advice and thought them bitter. I hung in their placating her for all the right reasons (to save my family). But all the while I was drowning deeper and deeper in despair and almost lost myself utterly.

Please stop before it gets worse.

Strength, Felco. It is in you.

Felco,

I think it‘s important for your wife to know where you stand. Just doing a 180 without letting her know what’s changed won’t do it. Read my post – the conversation I suggest you have with her – I wouldn’t have suggested it if I didn’t believe it.

So let her know that since OM is her “twin flame” (puke) and you aren’t settling for being a compromise then you are letting her go.

Wait a minute......

Your WS's AP threw her under the bus and she's still in "luurve" with him thinking he's her twin flame (never heard THAT ONE before ).

Um, news flash!!! Twin flames/soul mates/true loves don't just drop you like a pair of dirty underwear which is what your WS's AP has done to her.

Falco, have you told her that her "twin flame" has dumped her like garbage and wants nothing to do with her?

Sometimes you just have to be really harsh with them when they are in the fog.

k9

Well folks, she just tried to kiss me and I did not respond. Then it lead to a conversation and I to,d her that I am not going to play second and I am pulling away. I took my ring off and placed it near her. Told her that I can't wear this if she is in love with someone else. She replies, you know I love you and it's not you. This just happened and I can't change it.

Ok, well I am done then.

Ahhhh--the "it just happened" line.

Doesn't sound like a person owning their responsibilities, does it?

Look, Felco, you have received very sound advice---and I believe you know it to be true. It is where you go from here, that is so damn difficult. We know how hard it is, and how weak we felt at this point, so don't beat yourself up if you can't flip your emotions(and actions) like a switch. Just KNOW that it has to be done...and continue to work on it.

If her behavior doesn't change soon, believe me, your anger stage will kick in. And if you use that anger constructively, you can make great strides in your personal progress. Remember, the sooner that you detach, the sooner that you will see things for what they really are. THEN you can make sound decisions going forward.

Don't sell yourself short. Know that you are a decent guy, who doesn't deserve to be treated like this. Don't forget that.

Felco, I went back and found an older post I made to someone regarding the 180 and basically reconnecting with yourself to gain some control during the shitstorm. Based on your last post and the interaction with your WW it's time for you to seriously start focusing on you. Ignore her except for kids and finances. If you aren't ready to file yet then you focus solely on you and your children until you are ready to make a decision. Below is what I did to help me detach and successfully 180 my at the time WW until I was able to file for D.

First you have to retrain your self so your first thought is NOT if I do this WW will...

You can't control her so this is hard but try to let the outcome go. You can control yourself. So start recognizing when you are internally bargaining or weighing options in your head based on the positive or negative impact on your WW. You may not be able to stop right now but at least recognize when you think something and then immediately think but if I do that WW will say or do this.

You don't change to get her back. You focus on you and change yourself to become an emotionally heatlhy person for you and your children.

The 180 is your friend! All the stuff you listed like speaking to her first, kissign, or hugging her, you just stop. If you don't tell her you love her or kiss her or hug her what will happen? The world will not end. You need to start doing some things YOU want to do. What do you like doing? Start with that. Sit down and start a list of things that you WANT to do either by yourself or with your children.

My list started with working out, and moved on to taking the kids to the park, taking the kids over to another town to site see, going to a museum, adding more movies to my netflix queue, taking the kids to the library, going to the bookstore and reading non-infidelity related books, hanging out with my brother more often, finishing up projects around the house, restablishing relationships with college friends, going on day trips, you get the point.

Write out a list of things you can do everyday that are just for you and your children and add something to it each day. Put some large things on there that you always wanted to do but never did as well but start off with lots of small things. Then you go out and start doing them. I actively had to change my mindset from "save my M to save myself" and you can do the same.

In the beginning it may be tough but if so do the same thing for a few days. For me I stuck with going to the gym daily for a few weeks until I could work up to something else. Ideally you do these things without your WW.

Rediscovering and doing things you like/love again can lead you into a 180 and detachment and vice versa. This is how I was able to do the 180. I couldn't just cold turkey the 180. I made myself go out and do things that I always wanted to do and included the kids and eventually I found that I would much rather spend my time doing shit I liked then sitting at home walking on egg shells around WW. At some point it became more interesting for me to do something fun and positive with my kids or by myself then sit around the house stuck in a loop of negativity with my WW.

So make your list and get started. Discuss it with your IC if you have one. You don't even need to tell your WW what you are doing. If she asked just say you are spending some time working on you while she is working on her because it's the truth. If she chooses not to engage you or talk to you then fine you go on about your business. If she wants to talk that is fine as well. If you get the courage to do a few things for yourself your confidence can build from there. If discussions with your WW always end with you feeling upset or pissed off then stop discussing things with her. That is one of the simplest things you can do in the 180. You limit your contact with your WW. You are in the house together so you can be cordial but don't be clingy, force yourself to keep some distance as you work off your list of things.

The point is to get to a point where you no longer need your WS for emotional validation. You are responsible for your own happiness. If you can force yourself to do something on your list each day and make it a habit you will detach eventually because you are focusing on you. Build on each little success you have everyday. It is literally one day at a time and yes there will be some ups and downs but you just get up and focus on something on your list again.

Once I was doing some things on my own for awhile I reread the 180 a few times and it was easier to implement. Some things still didn't apply but the things that did I ran with them. Again it's not about punishing your spouse or trying to win them back it's all about becoming an individual again and getting to a good headspace so you can make rational decisions when needed. In my case the rational decision was for me to file but I couldn't even get to that point until I started focusing on me. My STBXWW moved out in July of 2013 when I filed. We don't talk to each other much anymore but we still coparent well and I just keep focusing on me. I actually am able to enjoy myself again because I actively chose to focus on myself. You can do the same and if your WW is in fact able to "own her shit" then you are in a better position and if she can't you are still in a better position to actually file and you are already on your path to healing.

Don't know if this helps or not but I hope so. People always say don't let anyone steal your joy. Well, it's not sitting out there for people to steal. Your joy was always under your control, it's just we hide it within ourselves over time and we forget that it was and is still there. You just have to find it again.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:37 AM, December 26th (Thursday)]

So tell your wife:

I do not accept being an option or a compromise. If you are being totally honest that OM walks on water and he provides you with emotions and experiences that nobody else does, has done or will ever do… Well… I won’t compete with that.

She should know by now what man you are and what you can offer. If that’s not enough and if she doesn’t believe that will stack up to OM… Then you are going to seek someone else that can be YOUR “twin flame” (puke).

Tell her you do this for several reasons: Your own self-respect and sense of worth, your right to have a spouse that loves you unconditionally and last but not least: Because of your love for HER. If she’s being honest then by remaining with her you are holding back on HER possibilities of life-happiness and by setting her free you are respecting HER and her wishes.

If she wants to remain married to you… Then she has to tell you she WANTS to be married to you because of YOU. Not because of your lifestyle, financial situation, the kids, the house or the dog. She wants to be married to you because YOU are her flame. Because reality tells her she’s better off as a person with you.

So you took a big first step. Great! You declared you wont be second fiddle. I do suggest you finish this by following Biggers suggestion.

It helped me to write out what I expected of my wife. What were my non-negotiable's in a marriage and not being second fiddle was at top of the list along with any other desires. The key to this exercise is she needs to see your have expectations, and you have options. Your not willing to pine for her and wait for her to make a decision. Its your decision to make not hers, she fucked someone else. That makes all decisions yours. You hold much more power here than she, you just need to burst her bubble that you will be there under all circumstances. She needs to go from 2 boyfriends to none really quick and abrupt.

Peace! Stay the course and write it out. I had a list of about 20 things most of which I pointed out she wasn't providing me and was perhaps the worst spouse in the world, it was time for me to upgrade. Then I kicked her ass out of the house.

Please note it took me 4 months of letting Biggers words sink in before I found my strength, so keep trying it takes time. But you need to declare your value. The worst possible outcome is sharing your wife. Mentally, emotionally, or physically. Its all the same.

LHAP?

Felco, you did the right thing. That's how to do the 180. Detach and move on.

Listen to Bigger, he is so spot on. We soldiers of SI have all been through the wars and the best strategies never change.

Good luck and keep posting.

[This message edited by crazycatlady at 9:53 AM, December 26th (Thursday)]