SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

That's him being a jerk. Checking out girls "with" you?? Huh?? He's manipulating you. He's being cruel. I'm so, so sorry. He is definitely not remorseful. :(

He shouldn't be checking out girls, period. He's forcing you into his sick fantasies.

((Sigh))

Thank you all for putting this all into perspective. We are doing well in so many areas. This area is a mess. He's got a lot of work to do. I'm going to IC this week. I'm going to talk to my therapist about this.

I wouldn't want to have sex with my H either if he did that to me. Checking out girls, and trolling Craigslist is not helping you at all. He is being mean, insensitive and selfish.

You are not the problem. What he did is. What he is doing is. Trolling Craigslist to get you going? Seriously? Sex is good when you feel safe and comfortable. He isn't doing any of that. I don't see how you are dysfunctional at all. I wouldn't get near any of that with a ten foot pole and every piece of clothing I owned on.

Refuz: it's interesting that you say that. OW, therapist, and many others have told me they think he's manipulative. But for the life of me I could never understand it. I didn't see it. If in fact you are correct then it would rather support that assessment. It's something to think about.

And as for him, he knows of this thread. He is frustrated that I would find help on the online world versus talking to him about it. I told him that we have been going round and round for years on sex, hence why I'm seeking help. ((Sigh)) that conversation didn't go well.

He seems so well meaning and I know he loves me. He said he's open to whatever you all post. He's a good man he really is. We are just lost with sex right now.

Is he getting therapy? HE needs therapy.

I'm not saying he's bad. But his behavior is. This is not just sex. He needs help. If he cares about you, and is open to what we see, and I assure you that most of us are supportive of R, when both parties are getting the help they need to become healthy, he will seek help.

Is he getting help for the porn addiction? It is unlikely he has beat this without help and support outside of you. I don't know what is in his background but I have found that the types of behaviors you have described have a deep rooted source from childhood.

Is there sexual abuse in his past? Something in his FOO that has caused this "grooming" type behavior?

Is he wiling to accept that all of his actions are not altruistic by nature?

If he is a "good" man, he will make himself healthy so that you can both be healthy partners. He will stop focusing on the improvements you need to make, and start turning the mirror on himself. And if he bristles at that suggestion, I think you should question his motives.

Is he brave enough to go to Wayward and post? Is that something that could be helpful for you?

I'm just tossing out suggestions for you. Mainly I want you to protect yourself first. Let him show you that he is a "good" man by behaving like one.

I've encouraged him to go to the WS and read and post. He doesn't see what benefit he'd get. He did a few IC sessions but hasn't returned. Again he doesn't see the long term benefit. He doesn't want to continue MC as he didn't feel it was helpful. He did mention that he would like to see a sex therapist together.

He went to an every mans battle conference and it seems to have made a good impact on him. They have a thing you can sign up for a 100 a month. It's a weekly group session over the phone with a therapist. He was exposed to Porn at 5. His dad had multiple affairs. Mom brought men home regularly when they divorced and he heard the sex often. He has had struggles communicating emotionally as well. We have done a lot of work together on communication and emotions.

I am hoping to go to an every woman's battle in March. This is geared towards wives. We are also scheduled to go to a marriage weekend in March as well.

So all of the help he is willing to pursue is a bit....anonymous. NO long term connections with a therapist or people that he must be accountable to?

If I were walking in your shoes, I would insist on IC at a minimum.

He was exposed to Porn at 5. His dad had multiple affairs. Mom brought men home regularly when they divorced and he heard the sex often. He has had struggles communicating emotionally as well.

He has some serious FOO to address and I suspect more that just that.

All the stuff he failed to do or quit doing....is exactly the stuff he should be doing.

NONE of these issues are yours. You are not a doormat. You are worth the benefit of sticking with an IC and talking to people who who can help him heal. If he is not willing to make a serious commitment to healing himself, you should understand that this sex problem (which is NOT your sex problem) will continue to be tool used to harm you. YOU are not the problem. You were not the problem when you were abused as a child. You were not the problem when when your H had an A. You were not the problem when you tried to "feel" sexual with a man who who uses sex as a tool.

YOU don't need marriage weekend. Your M isn't the problem.

YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM! I wish I could sit on your shoulder 24/7 and whisper this in your ear until you believed it.

Apparently WH posted on the WS side. I'm hopeful this will help.

Me too.

You both might want to make some ground rules regarding posting on one another's threads, to keep some safety.

I hope he has the strength to stick around.

I am going to stick to posting on your threads. I think he will get more from other Waywards, who have walked a mile in his shoes and who understand the nature of his battles and may be better equipped to help.

((msrukia))

I hope so to Refuz. I know this is a long process. I am very proud of myself for how I've handled myself thus far. I know we can make it.

I don't know if all the "he's sick, he's disgusting' kinds of comments are very helpful.

I've felt and done things (or thought about doing things) similar to him. But basically, where it comes from, is I want to be sexually desired by my wife, and I know I'm not. She'll have sex with me, but I feels mostly like placating me. So in my more base moments, cast around to find some way to get her turned on.

He's misguided, but he's got to feel that you're just into him sexually, and that's a pretty difficult feeling for a man. It'd be like him intoning that he just didn't find you attractive.

I am not sure what the etiquette is in these forums, I have never really used them. I am the WS being spoken of here and totally agree that our marriage will be saved by the both of us working on ourselves. I have never told my beautiful wife that she is the problem and have consistently asked what I can do better. After reading her post and the follow on, I agree that I sound like a jerk. Normally my wife and I have fun talking about other women’s looks and many times she instigates it. Yesterday I mentioned it and noticed that she was not interested and I immediately ceased. My wife has a great freaky side that has not been imposed upon her by me and many times she enjoys things that surprise me, but other times she doesn’t even want to be touched. I have always been very attentive to her sexual needs and have never used her as a receptacle. I always ask what she likes and the moment I notice she is no longer interested I don’t push her any further. I have never tried to make her have pornstar sex, and would love to meet her sexual intimacy needs in any way that she desires. I have not looked at porn in many months though I admit the temptation is there. I am fully open to counseling and previously stopped going because we couldn’t afford it at $55 per session. I have recently been promoted with a good pay raise at work and we are working on getting our finances under control and I look forward to resuming counseling sessions as soon as we do.

I love my wife tremendously and want to have a whole, healthy marriage with my wife and understand that sex is only one part of what makes a marriage healthy. I know I have screwed up in the past and have always said the affair was entirely my choice and my fault. I am working very hard to be a great husband and am open to any suggestions that will help me accomplish that.

IHeart:

That's why I'm so frustrated. My lack of desire is hurting him. It hurt him in the past. I don't want to hurt him. I want him to know I love him. But I can't make myself desire sex from someone who hurt me at the deepest level possible. I am hoping it will come in time.

Try taking sex off the table for a while. Like an intentional period of celibacy (no masturbation for either of you, nothing) and just be emotionally close. I felt fear (apprehension?) for years of allowing my H to be too snuggly with me, or see me change or whatever because it might excite him and then I'd feel like I had to have sex (this is changing). But sexual arousal does NOT need to lead to sex.

For example, I have a UTI right now and I'm on antibiotics, my period is due to start any day and last week one of our kids was sick and up many times in the night. So... no sex for a while and likely not for a while in the future. I had anxiety about it and H and I talked. He reassured me but I'm so used to that feeling from our "old" marriage that it was hard to let go. He sent me a text with the reasons that he was glad we couldn't have sex. It can be freeing. We can talk about anything, cuddle, whatever but it won't lead down that path right now.

In no way am I suggesting that I plan on continuing this forever (or that you guys should) but just that the feeling of there being absolutely no sexual pressure makes me feel so loving and actually more romantic towards him.

Eight years ago, when my WH was first diagnosed as a sex addict, his therapist prescribed a 6-month period of celibacy along with reading books by Patrick Carnes about SA. From his perspective, it really worked. The first two months were HORRIBLE for him, but as he read and as he abstained, he began to understand the difference between love and lust and the motivation behind his desire for sex. Once we became intimate again, he would sometimes stop, mid-act, because he felt he was f---ing me instead of making love to me. So we'd just snuggle. And I felt safe that he was protecting me. For four years or so, it worked--"it" being the period of celibacy, the weekly IC, the weekly 12-step group, and the sponsor.

Unfortunately, he had a falling out with his therapist, then his sponsor moved, and he felt judged by moderators in the 12-step group. So he abandoned his support system, and he fell off the wagon: first an affair, then prostitutes, escorts, hook-up sites, etc. Those were all FIRSTS for him.

So . . . back to you. :) Celibacy worked! It worked well. And even though he hasn't jumped into recovery as whole-heartedly as I would hope (no 12-step, IC only 1x/mo, no sponsor), he has instituted self-imposed celibacy since his father went on hospice three weeks ago. He knows he'd be having sex with me for completely the wrong reasons. He recognizes those thoughts and impulses. Instead, we cuddle, we have "naked nights" when we sleep skin-to-skin, we touch each other a lot--sometimes sexually but usually just lovingly (you KNOW what I mean by that, right?). He's very tactile and needs to touch or be touched: my fingers in his hair, his holding my hand or stroking my arm, bear hugs, etc.

Again, celibacy (especially when "prescribed" by a CSAT) can be a boon for you both. He'd learn to differentiate his need to f--- someone from his desire to be close to you and to share intimacy with you. You'd learn to feel safe. And treasured. And loved. And then your libido might return. I have to admit that I'm probably having a harder time with his celibacy this time than he is. Because you know what? When I feel cherished, I get aroused. Funny how that works, huh?

Good luck! Because I know it means something to you both, I'll pray for you.

Since WH is here, I edit my post.

awkward

WH should really be honest with himself about what he wants. I mean really honest, and then he should be really honest wity BW.

I wish you the best of luck.

[This message edited by Melian40 at 6:52 PM, February 9th (Sunday)]

Prolonged celibacy seems a little nuts to me. He's not a sex addict, and what is the right reason versus the wrong reason for a man to want sex?

Now since he cheated its on him to do what you need to feel safe. So no sex for a time is totally within your rights as a BS.

But the real question: I love my husband but I don't want to have sex with him is the million dollar question for probably half the marriages in the world.

The cynical view is that women need challenge and excitement, he's too beta, blah blah. The optimists view is that if you felt more emotionally close than the desire would return.

I think it's probably more complicated. Men in general spend a lot of effort trying to get sex. Women tend to trivialize men as superficial, or sex crazy when they don't reciprocate the feelings. I don't know the answer to your problem. Realistically you may just not be attracted to him. It could be as simple as that.

Iheart, he stated in the WS forum he is SA, he's gone to an intensive 3 day SA therapy workshop, my husband has been to the same one.

Many CSAT's, 12 step SA groups do suggest a celibacy time. It's to relearn true intimacy, not based on sex. It enhances sex when you resume.

SA's often live in the fantasy, have cyclical thoughts. They have to get out of that behavior pattern.

My husband abstains from masturbation (also recommended), unless it's with me and only me. Why? So he doesn't go into fantasy thoughts, so he doesn't get tempted to watch porn, so it doesn't take away true intimacy, so it doesn't desensitizes him from real sex.

It's been 19 months since he's stopped. The difference is astounding. Truly astounding. Especially since porn is gone too.