SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Eric - you're probably right, but it's so damn depressing to hear. That this is just another run of the mill, cheap, tawdry affair.

Hobbes - sorry. Missed your post before. I'm cool with my IC. I'm pretty comfortable with him; finding myself opening up more than I ever thought I would. He seems to be focused on the right thing. Getting me out of a lot of negative thinking about myself. It's slow though.

Foley - it might be, or was wishful thinking, but at first it was based on 27 years of rock solid history together. Then it was her. Eric would say I had her up on a pedestal (and probably still do to a degree). I guess that's why.

Of the things you've done the one which I've found particularly interesting is your quick conclusion that your wife's A was the result of something seriously broken inside her, and not of a desire to hurt you. It took me a much longer time to understand that some of the things my wife has done were the result of internal breakage - internal breakage which I had no idea was present - and were not done with the intent of causing harm to me or our relationship. It will be interesting to see how your view evolves as you learn more, but for now it appears to be the correct conclusion.

It took me a very long time to get this. But still, even though there was no intent to cause harm, the betrayed are harmed and relationships destroyed. It is hard to let that go.

I put my WH on a pedestal. I thought he was one of those very special men - honest, moral, kind, trustworthy, a decent, good man. I had been with him for 40 years! Then my bubble burst. I have to remind myself everyday that everyone makes poor choices at some time in their life, we all have flaws.

There are a lot of shitty husbands that remain faithful and I would hate to be married to one of them.

I hope the best for you. Whether you stay together or not I hope you find peace with your decision.

Of the things you've done the one which I've found particularly interesting is your quick conclusion that your wife's A was the result of something seriously broken inside her, and not of a desire to hurt you. It took me a much longer time to understand that some of the things my wife has done were the result of internal breakage - internal breakage which I had no idea was present - and were not done with the intent of causing harm to me or our relationship. It will be interesting to see how your view evolves as you learn more, but for now it appears to be the correct conclusion.

When we're early in our own shock and trauma--trying to survive and navigate through the remnants of our shattered existence into a new one--I just don't think deep understanding can be grasped.

It took me 2+ years to understand that my XWW married me because I was safe--i.e., NOT her father (who was distant, mercurial and prone to outbursts). Then once she married me, she hated me because I wasn't her father.

Her OMM was similar to her father (but without her father's morals, integrity, and honor) and she was going to win his love THIS TIME. Her perception of OMM was clouded by the nature of an affair (which rewrites reality), some similarities with her absent father, and her privation and NEED to win his (surrogate) love.

For me, understanding came with a strong sense of inevitability. I now understand that because of the privation my XWW felt from her childhood that if she didn't get what she wanted in the normal course, she would just take it. There was nothing I could have done to prevent her from doing what she did.

It's first things first in these situations--heal ourselves. Be gentle with ourselves, get away for a time to stay sane, eat right, exercise, pray, whatever we need to do... Heal first. Understanding and acceptance come after some healing and with time.

Blessings, LA

Walloped

Everyone has good points of view. And her affair is totally about your wife and her very selfish desires.

We can all guess about what she wants to speak to you about but I will bring something to your attention.

Every once in a while we see a wayward spouse that cannot forgive herself.

She cannot get over that she lied and cheated on her husband. She cannot accept she broke her vows.

She cannot accept she has damaged her family unit.

A woman like this can be remorseful but sometimes feels the only course of action is to walk away because she cannot relate to the person that made these crappy decisions to have a relationship with a complete stranger outside of her marriage.

A woman like that can feel if she cannot forgive herself let alone figure out the "why" reason she was able to participate in this extramarital affair without comprehending the damage she would do to her marriage and family then how could anyone else forgive her......

We have seen this happen before. Just realize this type of WS could be your wife.

The fudge was a genuine gift for your wife. Not the woman that cheated on you.

The person that wants to have that conversation with you is most likely your wife. If you recognize her then I urge you to listen to her. To see if it is really her speaking.

And as far as the BBQ I again say to have it. For you, for your kids for your family. Invite your wife. Not the liar, not the cheater but the mother of your children.

Be a man. Remind her of who you expect her to be. Show her who you expect her to be.

I think your wife needs that.

It tells her that you will be alright with her or without her.

And there is nothing wrong with setting these examples.

After all you lead this family. Remind them all of that.

Because whether you choose to R or D you will always lead this family.....

HM

W

I don't think that it matters that it was a typical affair. I'm sure what your IC is building you towards is one of solid self-reliance. The affair, and the type of affair that it was, is just an external factor that has zero significance in the big pictures

It's only to understand what it was so that you can move towards the full truth of the situation. Once you feel you understand the truth, that will be your basis for moving forward.

Some facts will be hard to hear, but you'll have to face those hard things sooner or later. Might as well hammer than crap out ASAP, eh?

As a BS, I can't imagine how much courage it would take for your wife to be at the BBQ, thinking everybody knows and is judging her. I'll give her credit for going and holding her head high for the family.

Personally, I don't know who I'd feel comfortable sitting next to if I was her. Your brother and his family? (the one who turned her in) Any inlaws that she suspects knows about this. She will think everybody knows.

But, I don't know her and her strength. This is something she will have to face the rest of her life. She'll feel like she has a tattoo on her forehead. The stench of an affair never leaves a person when others' know about it. (Read that somewhere)

I would hate to be HER there. Maybe my X did the right thing by just taking off and not dealing with any of it. He couldn't take the blow to his image so he just left town, never to look back. And, abandoned every one of his friends and most of his and my families.

My point is, I do think this is very hard for the ones who truly feel shameful about their activities and how they can ever fix their reputations with their loved ones. My H just decided to leave everyone behind and nobody even knows where he lives.

Shame can be a terrible karma to somebody who committed such an awful crime. And, I strongly believe adultery is one of the worst crimes there are. (it usually leads to stealing money on top of the lying and cheating).

The AFFAIR didn't bother me, nor did their sex, when it came to the bottom line. It was about the deception they created and made me feel like a fool. That's what was the hardest for me to get over - and I couldn't.

If I deceived somebody that long for 3 yrs, I'd probably swim into a big wave and drown myself, but then, that's just me.

As always, W, best of luck. We're all rooting for you.

Thanks for the reply, I'm glad to hear it!

I think it's very important that if you decide to have/attend the BBQ and that you wish your wife to come, to tell her that. Tell her that you wish for her to come. Talk to her sister as well about it, so she can encourage her. Will her sister be invited to the BBQ as well? I think it would be good.

How are you feeling today?

Best wishes

W,

I've been reading your thread. First, let me say I wish we never crossed paths. However, I have immensely benefited from your insights and the other guys (wow) are phenomenal.

The BBQ, this my opinion and is way deep in the take what you need and leave the rest category.

1. Is everyone ready to socialize with your wife or will she be isolated because it's awkward?

2. One tact I haven't seen in the conversations on to go or not is; Are you doing this for the 'family'. I can see where you have tried to 'protect' them from this and are you actually dealing with and debating whats best for you or what's best for them? Disclosure: I spent 20+ years in a terrible marriage for the 'kids'.

The fudge, some saw your wife's reaction as guilt, I saw shame. I think we've all boarded and riding the 2nd guessing marry-go-round.

Regrets we're here, but well wishes.

Walloped, BIL/SIL called us out the blue yesterday to see "War Room" with them and another couple last night. It is a christian based film by the the Kendrick brothers about the power of prayer, and it was the #2 grossing film last week despite a minuscule budget. I had no idea what to expect, but it was a powerful movie. We held hands for the entire 2 hours. I could think of nothing but the struggle your family is facing now. I could picture you on the top of that mountain in AZ asking god to give you the guidance to do the right thing. I just wanted to let you know that your family will be at the top of our prayer list till god guides your decision. Praying for continued strength for you and you wife to begin the healing.

Cajun - I can't tell you just how touched I am. That is so thoughtful and special. Thank you.

In general, one of the reasons why I write these silly posts about trivialities is because if the insights you all have on them. It's difficult to discern when you're in the thick of it so an outside perspective really helps. I read her reaction to my giving her the fudge as shame, not guilt. I took her not looking at me as she couldn't. I don't know.

Thanks for pointing out my wife's perspective on the BBQ. I told my brother I'm okay with it and asked his wife to call my wife to invite her. But to keep it small. So it'll just be my brother and his family, my family, and my wife's sister and family. No neighbors. We've all known each other for basically 20+ years and we all live pretty close to each other. So no strangers. Just close knit family and the kids get to all hang with each other.

Yeah - it might be torture, but Happy - you are absolutely correct. And it'll be harder on her. Way harder as she's the "perpetrator." Everyone has been helpful with her but it's got to be tough on her. Yet she's coming. My SIL said she sounded grateful for the invite and insisted on bringing side dishes.

We'll see how it goes.

Anyway, got to go. On a break from my fantasy football draft.

Enjoy the time with your family W.

As you know our children grow up too fast. Time is precious.

Every second of it.

Just close knit family and the kids get to all hang with each other.

Glad to hear you're having the BBQ. Also I think it was a good call by you to keep is small and just family. I'm sure the kids will enjoy their last hurrah before school starts. I'll be heading up to my extended family's get together tomorrow. It'll be the first I've been to without my xWW. The last one was in the middle of my own crapfest. I hope to enjoy this one more, and I hope you can relax and enjoy yours too.

it's got to be tough on her. Yet she's coming.

I take that as a good sign. Because yes, it will be hard on her. Yet she's doing it anyway.

Hope that all of u will have good time , you are wonderful family , I think that what happened was due that ur wife was so naive , she seems to be a very good person.

Best wishes

My bet is that the side dishes will taste as good to you as the fudge did to her!

Thanks for the update. Who have you drafted?

Hello Walloped ....

I found the new thread... YES! (virtual fist bump!)...so at least my navigation skills are still intact! (Glad, the brain farts over the past few weeks have not caused permanent or residual damage!)

BBQ or not BBQ?? I won't weigh in on that its a personal choice. Seems you have decided to go, so do your best to enjoy the day, your kids, even the company of your WS (....to the extent possible!) It's 1 day (a blip in the history of your continuum) I agree, don't sweat the small stuff!

One of the things that I have found the most difficult surviving through all of this is the reset! Getting used to what you called the "new normal"

Its about the future. The pre D-date future while not certain, at least had some features of certainty, ie. we knew who would be in our future, had an idea about what that future would look like and how it might turn out. Not idealistic, but based on the foundation that we understood existed before!

Now we have no fucking clue what it will look like, and is it the loss of our future as we know it, that we lament! Although my future will not include my XSWBF, I have decided that this situation is not going to prevent me from seizing the day and taking charge of my life and my future! I am not going to live in fear about what the future has in store for me anymore! What do I want from the rest of my life? That is the question that we now have to struggle with and find the answer to.

So while the past 30 days (or thereabout) have been excruciating and brutal, what the next 30 has in store will depend in large part on the dynamics that exist! Your dynamic includes a long and stable history before D date and a love and kinship that remains somewhat intact (although wounded!)

It's first things first in these situations--heal ourselves. Be gentle with ourselves, get away for a time to stay sane, eat right, exercise, pray, whatever we need to do... Heal first. Understanding and acceptance come after some healing and with time.

So you have tackled the first things first and you have gotten to an inkling! IMHO that is far better than NO IDEA!

Wish you all the best.

(((Walloped)))

I missed the beginning of the new thread - wondered why my post was mysteriously missing....lol....I copied and pasted it from the old thread....a bit disappointed that we didn't get that baby up to 1000 posts - only needed 9 more posts! Anyway......

He's saying all the right things. I just don't know if I'm internalizing them.

If you internalized it after one session, or if that was even possible, people wouldn't be in therapy for years. It takes time, but you MUST trust the IC, and believe what they are saying.

Regarding the family get together thing....just my opinion, but my vote is no way in hell.

I went to one such event at my BIL's for Easter after we told the kids but before WH had moved out, etc. It was pure fucking torture for me. Thankfully my BFF popped in for about 30 seconds and I met her at the curb bawling. It's awkward, no one knows what to do, and the elephant in the room follows you everywhere and sits on your chest as often as possible.

Just my two cents worth. I know you've already agreed to it. I hope it goes well.

I want to focus a bit on this from your original thread:

But the ones we are focusing on are primarily how I feel about myself (less of a man, I wasn’t enough for her, scared, angry, conflicted, emasculated, love her, hate her, hate that I love her, disregarded, etc.).

I get those emotions. I get it that no matter if our sensible and logical part agrees that the decision to cheat has nothing to do with us then our heart seems to shout out we were lacking. I get it because I have had to deal with them.

I don‘t think infidelity entitles us to revenge. Furthermore I think our personal recovery doesn’t really benefit from revenge.

Someone mentioned consequences… Well… isn’t the present situation a consequence? Isn’t the shame, the exposure, the uncertainty of the future and all that consequence? I frankly don’t see how we can deliver punishment-like specific consequences on the WW. It’s not as if we can have the wayward wife do push-ups or write a million times “I won’t cheat again” on the blackboard. We tried punishment in the past when WS were made to wear a scarlet A but that didn’t really work…

If you decide to divorce her then I hope the reason is because you don’t believe in this marriage. I would really hate to see you still love her, still want to be with her and maybe even still see hope for the marriage only to divorce her so that she has consequences for the affair.

If you decide to reconcile then I don’t see how that can be done if you feel entitled to wave the infidelity card at your convenience. The goal of R is to create a healthy relationship with open communications and transparency that diminishes the likelihood of a repeat infidelity.

Reconciliation where your wife takes a secondary place in the relationship… Sort of always walks three steps behind you… Nah… not interesting. Never compromise on what you see as the ideal marriage and ALWAYS strive towards it – even if it’s with a spouse that has cheated. Do you want to grow old with a compromise?

OK – IMHO there are really only two ways of regaining your stature regarding your wife.

You can reject her. Basically that’s divorce. It’s sending the message “Yes – she might have cheated. She might have thought I wasn’t enough or felt a need to seek outside the marriage. But I don’t take that shit. I have decided to terminate our relationship and I’m doing so on MY TERMS. This is MY DECISSION”.

Or you can reclaim her. It’s harder but basicaly it’s a very primal emotion: “This is MY woman. Someone tried to take her away and led her astray BUT I AM RECLAIMING HER. That is why she is showing me that she values me. She is showing me that she realizes what she risked. I am treating her like something extremely precious that someone tried to steal from me but I am firmly holding on to her AND THAT IS MY CHOICE”

If you reclaim her you do so publicly. You tell stakeholders in the marriage (in the appropriate way) that YOU have decided to offer W the chance of R. It’s YOUR decision and YOUR gift to her.

The trouble with reconciliation is that you are reconciling with the object that symbolizes the cause of the pain. When you need to be tough it’s to her – when you need someone to lean on when crying it should be her… It’s a quandary. Your pain-giver is also your caretaker. Nothing easy about it. You can find some methods to deal with it:

I have already suggested looking at your wife as W and WW. Keep an open mind at when you are dealing with W and when you are dealing with WW. Right now it sounds as if WW is diminishing, but if your W EVER says something on the lines of “I felt lonely and you didn’t appreciate me..” then that’s WW.

Be clear on your commitment to each other. Sometimes it’s good to issue a “mission statement”. It’s simply a broad goal-oriented declaration that makes both your positions clear: “We will work at reconciliation. We don’t know if it’s possible but for the next 30 days then that’s our goal. During that period we will focus on that and then we will take stock of the situation”.

Just like a marathon then pace yourself. Not every day or every conversation needs to be about infidelity. Commit to days and situations where you are simply together – even if it’s not to talk about anything. [Going through a rough patch my W and I committed to a daily 30-60 minute walk with no conversation. After a few days we were chirping like chicken about all sorts of things. Simply being together tends to depressurize situations].

Commit to times not being together. If you need time off then take time off.

There is no rush. Take things as slow as you need them to be. But just like if this was a work-project then evaluate each step, each day and ask yourself “am I any closer to a goal? Was today good or bad?” and constantly work towards getting out of infidelity.

Walloped, hope your weekend went well. My prayer today is for you to "keep it simple". Your wife gave you a lot of honest information to process. Things will continue to get hectic. Take baby steps. Bigger is spot on again. The goal is to get out of infidelity. Continue to Trust Your Gut and your intuition. Feed The Good Wolf & begin the healing.

Weekend wasn’t too bad before the trigger and mini-freak out at the BBQ on Monday, as predicted.

Had my two fantasy football drafts on Saturday and Sunday night. That was good. I was with guys who I’ve known for years, and besides Brad, no one else knew of my situation so it was nice not to have to think of things. With some of these guys, we’ve been doing this for about 30 years now (back in the 80’s we used to copy stats for the box scores in the paper and calculate points in a spiral notebook – God, times have changed). Lots of beer, wings, pizza, and guy talk. It was good stuff and just what the doctor ordered. Of course with all the shit that’s been going on I hadn’t researched anything, but amazingly I had pretty good drafts. Anyway…

So about the BBQ. Had it on Monday at my brother’s house. BIL was still awkward around me. He still didn’t look happy to be there, like he was dragged along by my SIL. Don’t know if he’s upset at me, my wife, who knows? He wasn’t mean or not nice, just looked perpetually uncomfortable. Whatever. Maybe it’s hemorrhoids.

We kept it small as I mentioned, and we saw my kids before my wife. As soon as the kids came running to the backyard, my brother’s wife and my wife’s sister immediately went toward my wife, and they each gave her a hug and thanked her for coming. I thought that was a nice thing for them to do.

My wife and I did a very awkward “hello” thing, with everyone looking on. She whispered if I was okay with her coming and I told her it was my idea to have my SIL invite her. She looked surprised at that but smiled. Still, we basically gravitated towards someone else. Anyone else. I mostly hung out with my brother and the kids. She, with her sister and my SIL, and the kids when I was elsewhere. Lots of glances at each other. Super awkward. She didn’t want to approach me, gave me my space. I took it. Tossed a couple of Frisbees and footballs around with the kids, others were on the swing set. The grill was fired up. Burgers, dogs, wings, a couple of skirt steaks, lots of side dishes (if you must know, my wife made sweet potato fries, a corn salad, and breaded cauliflower). I bought the beer (yes, Yuengling). Music was playing. It was hot, but things were going well and we were all having a nice time.

And then came the song. The fucking pina colada song. I was talking to my brother and BIL with a beer in hand and the song came on. I didn’t notice at first until my brother’s wife started singing along and then I heard my oldest daughter say something like “Oh, I love this song!” and joined in. And then the song hit me and I just froze. I always hated that song. I don’t see it being romantic at all. It glamorizes 2 cheaters who fucking don’t know how to talk to each other. And of course I couldn’t help think about my wife. I don’t know what I looked like, but I do know that I had a death grip on the beer bottle. I’m surprised it didn’t shatter. They were singing “If you like pina coladas…” out loud and something made my wife turned around from where she was. She saw me, and again, I don’t know what I looked like but she freaked and started yelling “Stop it! Stop it! Turn it off! Turn it off! Turn off the fucking radio!” They were shocked, panicked, and then quickly turned off the radio and then silence, except for the younger kids who were still playing and making a ruckus running around and all, clueless. My wife had her hands over her mouth and she was crying, everyone was looking at the two of us, and I kept standing there like an idiot holding on to the beer bottle like it was a life preserver, and my daughter and SIL immediately started apologizing. I don’t know. It didn’t register. And then I just couldn’t take it all and I turned around and left. I went into the house and into the guest room.

I wasn’t angry or mad I felt, I don’t know, assaulted? And embarrassed. That I let a stupid song impact me like that. And stupid. Cause this was what I was worried about. That something like this would happen and I felt I ruined everything. If only I could keep my act together things would be okay. I do remember wondering who was going to be assigned “go check on Walloped” duty. Of course it was my brother. I asked him how my wife was doing. He said fine – she stopped crying. The ladies had immediately run over to her to support her. His wife told him to go check on me. And then he told me something I hadn’t thought of. He said this was a positive. I was like, “what?” and he said that firs, she came, knowing how awkward it would be, and then, she stood up for me. I didn’t quite get it, so he said that she didn’t react like I did and think of herself when she heard the song. She saw me and what it was doing to me and immediately tried to get it to stop. He said, “she was trying to protect you. You should just know that.” And then he said I should come out when I’m ready. So I did, apologized to everyone and just asked if we could keep the music off, and then started handing out beers to everyone. We were fine after that. I did go over to my wife to say thank you. All in all, not too bad.