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Adlham - There is a difference in what you said and what confused is experiencing, or at least is saying is being experienced.

You, Adlham, speak of taking a step to adjust your actions, by setting the alarm 30 minutes earlier, at least in some situations. (A side note, but maybe you should use this technique with more situations, and it would help you with being on time for more things.... alternatively, set your thoughts on the event starting 30 minutes earlier than stated, which could mean you arrive on time instead of late.) You do not write of anyone ever telling you they feel disrespected by your tardiness and asking you to change the behavior for that reason; from what little I know of you from your posts on SI, I do believe you would at least try to change this, at least when doing things with that particular person. That is very different than what confused seems to be experiencing.

In confused's situation, it seems the date is only ever late with things with confused, at least in confused's perception of events, and she has shared her feelings on the matter with the date, who has not seemed to care enough to actually attempt/make changes. If confused feels the relationship worth the effort at this point, then confused could certainly explore with the date ways/methods the date can apply to his life that would perhaps help the situation, such as setting the alarm 30 minutes earlier, as Adlham does. However, it appears, from what confused tells us, the date is paying only lip service to apologizing and not even thinking of changing, or making an effort to do so, despite now knowing how it makes confused feel.

But, Adlham's pointing out she is a person who is chronically late but means no disrespect is exactly why I believe one must give the person who offends a chance to first know there has been an offense, as they may not realize it, and to secondly address that offense and do better, if they actually wish to do so. And, I believe these steps should be done before drastic action is taken, such as cutting off a relationship. This is why I asked confused if such steps had been taken. It is only after that point, if the individual makes no actual change or effort to change, that the person in confused's place with this situation can truly understand the choice they have of staying in a relationship where this item is unlikely to change and dealing with all that comes with such, or cutting it off, and maybe while things are still on relatively good terms.

I've had years of practice at being "not worth it." Brought up that way, I was.

So reframe those thoughts like this:

I am a normal, average human. I am worth something. If somebody acts like I'm not then that is a reflection of how they feel or are, not a judgment that I must accept. In fact, I choose _not_ to accept that judgment.

Then set a boundary and consequence that you can live with. You absolutely do not have to put up with poor treatment once you figure out that the treatment is really poor and not just happenstance.

Finally, a comment on your communication strategy. Being angry right off the bat is understandable -but- it is also most likely to be counter-productive. If you're hit with anger as the opening in a conversation do you really buckle down and work on the problem or do you get defensive? I'm betting that he got defensive and dismissed your concerns.

Here's a different way to approach those difficult subjects:

Bob, you're late an awful lot of the time. (An emotionless observation)

When you're late I struggle with thoughts of not being "worth it" to you. I feel depressed, anxious, and tense. (A statement of how you think and feel.)

Those thoughts and feelings make my stomach knot up and cause a downward spiral of thoughts and feelings. (A statement of how this affects you physically.)

I want to work on things with you and I want to recognize that you put me as a priority in your life. (A re-affirmation of commitment and your needs.)

Will you help me work on this? (A request for his buy-in on the problem.)

Finally, you really need to consider what the consequence is for him breaking this boundary of yours (showing you respect). Are you ready to break it off with him over this? If it helps, I would be...

Good luck! Have a fistbump }{

Oh I definitely agree that what Confused is talking about is different .

I just wanted to answer her questions about chronically late people. And I am most definitely one of them!

I would say the big difference is that I practice a little behavior modification because I know it's a problem for me.

Also, it really always seems to be 30 minutes for me. Some sort of weird quirk. The running joke is if I tell someone a time I will be there, my friends automatically add 30 minutes. Yeah, I'm that bad with time!

That all being said, Confused, you have discussed it with him and he should be receptive to your needs.

I struggle with being on time, but I make an effort to adjust accordingly for circumstances where I know someone is depending on me. Usually I overcompensate and end up super early, but again that's just me struggling with time management. Clearly, when it matters to him he can make an effort. For whatever reason he doesn't seem willing/able to put in the effort to be timely on any sort of consistent basis. Frankly, it is disrespectful and I can understand why you're feeling hurt.

IMO you need to think about whether this is something you will be able to live with and not expect him to change. Because if you've truly had multiple attempts at explaining why it bothers you and he hasn't changed, well, I don't think he will. Do you want to spend weeks, months, years, etc with him always being late?

If he's otherwise a good/safe partner, it may be worth one final conversation in which you explain you don't want to be with someone who values your time so little and give him the opportunity to change over a concrete period of time. Otherwise I don't think you'd be overreacting to let him go and find someone who can be where they're supposed to be when they say.

I stopped seeing a man over this issue. I'm punctual. I respect other people's time. If I'm not a priority ...next.

I used to be late a lot and it had nothing to do with me respecting other peoples time... There's some psychology behind chronic lateness and it has to do with self-sabotage, craving the adrenaline rush of being late, fear of being early/the first one there and irrational beliefs about time ("I'll make up time on the way there!"). A mentor sat me down about 15 years ago and told me this was going to be the number one thing that held me back in my career. I thought she was overstating it because I was "only" 5-10 minutes late everywhere. But I'd be the last one in meetings, I missed flights, walked into a wedding ceremony *behind* the bride, you name it.

A few years ago I picked up the book Never Be Late Again as part of my post-D self-improvement regimen and it helped a lot. I'm not perfect and I also think as society gets more lax about running late I look better in comparison! Anyway, might be worth picking up for insight into his behavior or if you think he'll read it, a good recommendation.

On the other hand, I dated a guy who was ALWAYS late, by HOURS, and it turned out he was screwing at least 2 other women and was managing his time poorly due to that.

I can understand why you feel the way you do.

I have a tendency to run late places. I'm also a procrastinator and tend to work well under a deadline. I think it's frequent that those tendencies go together, but I'm no expert on the issue scientifically. I think the more casual a plan is, the less likely I am to be on time, partly because I don't see a firm timeline in my head and usually more so because I tend to underestimate how long it will take to get ready or to commute somewhere.

I think how you move forward is up to you, and you have several options. One is to do what you did with dinner---just cut it off at the pass and cancel the plans. Another is to sit down and talk to him about how you feel and what you need from him, as Devotedman described. The third would be to adjust accordingly IF you decide he's so great in other ways that you're willing to work on this one. For example, telling him dinner is at 6, when it's truly at 7. As a perpetually tardy person I wouldn't recommend this last one because he will pick up on the pattern and realize 6 means 7 and assume 7 can mean 7:30, etc.

I have a few friends who are terminally punctual, and they can't stand when I'm late places. A few minutes is one thing (shit happens) anything more or with a pattern like he's exhibiting is another. With these friends, when we make plans it's a hard deadline. Example: "Hey, ADH, we are going to dinner and to get drinks. Lyft leaves at 6:30." This tells me I need to plan to be there at 6:15 at the latest, and works well for me. But on the flip side, if we have casual plans to hang at someone's house or meet up somewhere, they don't give me grief if they all arrive at 7 and I come at 8. Then again, even in those cases I am usually not the last person to arrive (so many tardy people!) and the understanding is the start time is casual.

When I'm going to spend time with someone who I know is always punctual, I get a lot of anxiety around the possibility of being late and making them wait, because I know they appreciate punctuality and I feel like an ass if I don't respect that. Maybe he's missing that sensitivity chip?

I have a friend who used to be like this. She has gotten better. BUT, one time she had me waiting 5 HOURS for her! It made me furious, so I get what you're saying. I can also be a person that is 5 mins late on occasion. BUT, I do try to be on time in general. I feel it is disrespectful when others are waiting on you to be more than a few minutes late.

I know you ARE worth more than that! If he can't see it and make some adjustments, then I would also take it as being horribly disrespectful.

It would be a deal breaker for me too. It's a complete lack of respect. He knows how to be on time- for his kids, for his work... but not for you.

10 minutes is one thing- being an hour or two is ridiculous.

I'm often 5 to 10 minutes late- not because I'm lazy, but because I'm trying to fit in 'one more thing'- like yesterday, my DD arrived at a birthday party 5 minutes late because I dropped a book off at the library on the way there- I knew that she would probably be late, but felt it worth it to check something off my list of errands- I know that it's rude to show up late to a birthday party but I figured 5 minutes was ok. However, I was 5 minutes early at pick up because I think it's really rude to be late to pick up your kid. What I'm trying to get at is that I am generally making a conscious decision, unless it's extenuating circumstances (locked keys in car, crazy traffic,...)

But, TWO HOURS! WTF?

Did he think you and your D should wait for him to eat?

I once saw an Oprah and she talked about constantly being late. She said she hadn't thought too much about it until her trainer told her that he may not be able to work with her anymore, as she was always showing up late. He told her, 'You may be Oprah Winfrey, but my time is as valuable to me as your time is to you. When you're constantly late, you're basically telling me that your time is more valuable than mine and it's not. It's a lack of disrespect.'

Added to all this is the fact that you've told him this repeatedly and he clearly doesn't care. I would maybe address it one more time and also set clear times for when you expect him, rather than using undefined terms like 'real quick', 'as soon as I can',... so that he knows when you are expecting him.

this might be an interesting read for you:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/24/style/modern-love-keeping-the-boardroom-out-of-the-bedroom.html

I see this a lot with younger people. My middle daughter and her husband have a problem with this, too. I have explained repeatedly that people who are late send a message that their time is more important than the other person's (or people's) time and it's a blatant show of disregard and disrespect of other people. It did no good. So we just stopped holding events for them until they got it into their heads that Holiday dinners, opening gifts, parties, etc. would not be held for them at the expense of everyone else who bothered to be on time. Insisting that no disrespect is meant for an offense one commits continually despite others showing displeasure and inconvenience each time is just insulting.

As far as a significant other- I wouldn't date someone who was habitually late as he'd be making his respect level for me continually clear, particularly if he knew it bothered me. At some point, knowing it bothers you and still doing it can be considered passive aggressive no matter what the excuse. In the day of digital alarms and smart phones, he'd be welcome to be continuously late with someone else because, in my opinion, there's no excuse for continually being late. Once in a while, everyone has a situation but almost all the time sends a message. And almost all the time with just certain people sends a bigger message- "My time is more important to me than you are and your events and spending time with you are not priorities to me." It doesn't matter if that's the intended message- it's the message I'd get.

[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 4:11 PM, May 8th (Monday)]

I have a really good friend in the UK who is famously late for everything. EVERYTHING. I stumbled on a blog/website called "Wait but Why" which gives as good a mindset for people with *time issues* as anything I've ever seen. Google "wait but why always late" and it will pop up.

Personally this would bug the living hell out of me. I'm an ontime person--I hate being late for others. Having said that, since I've relocated and it's taken me ages to get my time management mojo back, I've had to go easy on myself. But if it's the only issue...Idk. It would be a bitter pill for me to swallow too, just saying.

It's disrespectful. There are times that things come up, but it takes a second to let the other person know. I would never let someone wait on me without sending a text I'm running late, I have no patience for people that don't value my time. Personally I would lay it out, but I'm blunt, "I find it incredibly rude that you do this, my time is just as valuable as yours is. I'd appreciate you letting me know if you will be late, what you are doing is showing me that you don't value me, I won't be in a relationship where I'm not valued."

I always though it was a method of control. They have the feeling of being so important that they make others wait for them. It makes them feel more powerful.

Pulling out two of my favorite quotes from the book "The Science of Happily Ever After" that I just posted on another thread as well.

"People don't really change, but they can become more aware of how they typically respond to situations and can push themselves to alter their natural responses."

"When choosing a romantic partner, what you see is what you get. Forever. Why would you go into a marriage relying only upon a partner's willingness to manage their negative traits, rather than choose someone from the start who gives you the best chance of success?"

You've had many conversations with him about this. He is not going to change. There are no magic words you can use or actions you can take to change him. He could apply behavioral techniques if he wanted to manage this trait of his, but he doesn't appear to care enough about the needs you've expressed to do so. So, you have to either accept that he is always going to be late, stay in the relationship and be miserable, or leave the relationship. Only you know if the other good traits he has outweigh the frustration and anger you feel with his constant lateness. As we say here all the time, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

For example, last week he was going to "run home real quick" and get a few things for the weekend. He lives 5-10 min from me. I took it as he will be back within the hour. He came back 2 hours later.

This stood out to me. You assumed he would be back within an hour. He didn't really say how long he was going to be. For cases like these, I would ask him for a specific time. If he can't keep his own word of time - then it's up to you to decide if you want to live like this.

Not quite sure what to do about him being late for dinner. I like that you told him not to bother coming over. Perhaps he will be on time next time?

I really do think this could be affected by the way you 2 are communicating. Have you tried the technique where you repeat back what you heard from the other person?

You say blah blah blah... and ask him to tell you what you said. And reverse. This way it's clear to each other what you are hearing and what you actually feel/think. Often times we think we are clearly expressing ourselves and our partners are hearing things differently.

I also know people who are chronically late. They are late to everything and we often give them an earlier time or express the importance of being on time for important events. If it's a casual event, it's not a big deal.

This reminds me a lot of an episode of Dr Phil I saw but it was regards to house cleanliness. Once spouse was messy - the other was tidy and the sloppiness drove her bonkers.

Dr Phil stated the messy person was not doing it just to irk the tidy person. It was just that the messy person just did not place much value on tidiness.

Could this be the situation with your SO? Meaning, he isn't intentionally trying to drive you batty. Nor does it have anything to do with how he values you? It is just that punctuality is just not all that important to him? Meaning, it takes it being personal to you out of it?

As for the Dr Phil - he told them they both had to respect each other's value system and reach a compromise. IE Mr Mess couldn't be expected to be Mr Clean. But Mr Mess needed to be respectful of how important it was to Mrs Tidy? Likewise, Mrs Tidy needed to realize he was not doing it to drive her nuts but understand it had little value in his head.

This would mean your SO would need to be willing to compromise on his timeliness and you would have to change your viewing on it not being personal against you for it to work.

(That said....this would be a big issue for me too. I dated someone for a little while like this and I DID TAKE it personal!)

I have a friend who is late to everything. It drove me crazy in the beginning, and she is aware she is late..but just can't seem to pull it together. She will arrive, generally at the very last minute, and kinda assumes people will just wait on her.

The thing is she doesn't have a mean or malicious bone in her body. She isn't lazy, she's a realtor and works hard. She has 3 kids. But, her parenting is a bit on the "free" side too. That's just who she is.

So, I decided that I liked her, but we are two different types of people. I know she is going to be late, and I plan for that.

If I was dating someone like that it would drive me crazy and I wouldn't be able to take it. I'm an "early girl". Always on time/early. My H has a little bit harder time with time management, but overall he is on-time or little bit early to most things.

It's kinda that..."can you deal with this part of his personality or not" question. I couldn't deal with it because in a partner, I find it disrespectful. But, I can deal with it in a friend....but I don't have to live with her.

Thanks all for the responses. This could be deal breaker but not sure. I'm going to see how it goes. We've been together this long. I hate to throw in towel now. It if this truly is something I can't live with then I'm out.

I'm pathologically early for everything, but I don't expect others to mirror my behavior. Having said that, his behavior is not healthy for you. It's one thing to be vague about your schedule; I often go out shopping or hiking, lose myself in the activity and stay out for hours. However, if I was supposed to be somewhere at a specific time, I probably would not go out beforehand knowing how I tend to lose track of time.

If you set deadlines and someone who should care about you continually ignores them, it's time to move on.