SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Read sorrowfulmate's post again and again, ESPECIALLY the part about PM-ing SI (or any other forum/group anywhere on the planet) members of the opposite sex! STOP THAT NOW!

Stop being a KISA and start working on becoming a better man. Now. Today. Now. It's hard work, but it's a very simple choice, and so far you have continually chosen yourself over your BW. It's time to make a better decision.

DaddyDom

IMO, you can't live with the same thought pattern you have always had and it sounds like you still are.

Not making excuses for your situation, but I think if you look back at your FOO issues you will find the cause of your inability or reluctance to have empathy for the ones closest to you. I myself didn't realize that I was playing out stories from my past. Instead of it being about the relationship I had with my distant mother, I took those feelings and put them on my wife.

You should read "Your Survival Instinct is Killing You" by Marc Schoen. It allowed me to see where my faulty thinking started and how it slanted my view of things now.

It sounds like you are trying to fix the symptoms and not the cause of the problem. Sometimes we have to dig deeper to find our true selves. Just like things we dig up, they are dirty, disgusting and maybe rotting. You have to see that that is you. Shine light on it, cut away the dead or dying parts. Let what is left grow into the man you are underneath, the man your wife wants you to be and the man you need to be.

I'm not preaching because I am in the same boat as you. Understand that there is no finish line with this. It is a marathon that will continue the rest of your life. That's good, to have to continue to grow and be better than you were yesterday.

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." - Albert Einstein

I'm scared of appearing as anything less than the perfect and remorseful spouse. I'm scared what my spouse might think when my thoughts and questions only point out further just how incapable I am of intuitively understanding her needs, or reaching outside of myself to see things clearly.

As long as you're expecting yourself to be perfect, you're setting yourself up for failure. No one is perfect. The important thing to do is to strive to do things to the best of your ability, and to have compassion for yourself and a willingness to learn when you fail.

When you are trying to be perfect you are letting shame control you. Shame is there saying "not good enough". Getting to the root of your shame and working through it will help you build compassion and empathy for your BS, which in turn will teach your to be more selfless.

I don't want the world to see that I freeze like a deer in the headlights when confronted with the affair.

Why does it matter what "the world" thinks? What does "the world" have to do with any of this? When you are focused on what others think then you are letting shame take the wheel. It sounds like you think that your inner critic will go away with the approval of others, but that's not how it works. Doing the work on your shame is the only way to stop worrying about what others think.

those walls

Walls are built when we are scared. We are scared about what will happen if they are not there to protect us.

The one thing that helped me with my walls was listening to Pema Chodron's advice of moving closer to them and getting to know them. in other words, getting to know what caused me to build the walls to begin with and what feelings I was trying to avoid and run away from.

It is not that I deny my actions or how awful they were, and there is no shortage of shame and guilt. What I seem to lack is the ability to really "own it" in terms of accepting the guilt on a deeper, heart-felt level. I want to. I need to. So why can't I?

As long as you are holding onto that shame you will never be able to look beyond yourself. If you can't do that then you won't be able to find empathy for your BS and you will not be able to grow as a person.

How did you manage to get past the selfishness and the shame? What was your aha moment that allowed you to put down the walls and open up? How do I get over my own feelings and make hers the priority rather than mine?

Once I learned that the root of my selfishness was my shame I began to work on that. I read all of Brene Brown's books and listened to her tedtalks over and over. I started being more vulnerable with my BS. It wasn't easy at first, but I knew I had to push through my fear.

I learned to be mindful, which really helped me to stay in the present and change my thinking.

I read and listened to a lot of books and watched youtube videos. Not just once, and not just skimming through them, I would keep listening and reading until it really sunk in.

Some of the stuff that helped me was

'The Places That Scare You' and 'Don't Bite the Hook' by Pema Chodron

All of Brene Brown's books and videos

'Shame and Guilt: Masters of Disguise by Jane Middleton-Moz

'The Four Agreements' by Don Miguel Ruiz

Kristin Neff's website and videos about self-compassion

Until you really deal with that underlying shame you are going to feel like you are spinning your wheels and you are going to create more damage in your relationship and cause more harm to your BS.

Thank you so much to all the wonderful people that responded to this post and the amazing advice and 2x4's that you have offered me. I want to respond to each and every one of you, and some of you have PM's already in your inboxes.

This is such a painful process for everyone involved. Recovering requires courage and fortitude and commitment, the very things I lacked in the first place. I am very lucky in that my wife still loves me and believes in me, as shown not only by her grace in not kicking me to the curb day one, but her continued efforts to help me see and understand where I lost my way and how I continue exhibit the same behaviors that hurt her in the first place. Regardless of my intentions, my brokenness keeps hurting her. I cannot stand to continue to be the source of her pain, and am fighting like hell to be a better, healthier person, both for my family and for myself.

Your honesty, concern and advice mean the world to me. In the same way that my wife keeps her guard up in order to protect herself from me, I find that I am keeping my guard up to protect myself from myself, and the world around me. While perfectly understandable given the abuse and neglect in my childhood, it has outlived its usefulness and is now causing, rather than protecting, me (and everyone around me) from pain. It helps me greatly to hear your stories and advice, knowing that you too have been here (or been the victim of someone that has been here) and that I am not alone in this battle to recover and heal.

I have read and will continue to re-read all the advice you have given me, and continue reaching out for guidance and clarity throughout my journey. I hope I can offer you advice and support as well.

Have a good memorial day everyone.

This is an anonymous forum. Just imagine if the member you were PM'ing was your wife. You had such heartfelt empathy for her and her situation. You felt a stirring for her and the husband. Put your WIFE in any of these stranger's shoes. She could be them.

Why do you think you feel for strangers over your wife?

I am no psychologist, so take this for what it's worth. But it would seem to me that one possibility is there could be a fear of intimacy or being vulnerable involved. This is what often leads people to affairs in the first place. We like to maintain a front, our 'best selves.' When we are truly known by another person, which is what happens in marriages, we are known with our flaws and all. We know them with their flaws too. For some, this is the epitome of intimacy. For those frightened of it, it makes them run the other direction. In marriages, we develop identities and we can hurt each other with them.

In affairs, the AP doesn't really *need* anything of you. They are the giver of things: sex, ego stroking, affection, attention. In marriages, you are expected to give. On an anonymous board, there are no expectations. All you have to do is show up and offer excellent advice or a contribution to a thread. Without someone tugging on you all the time, maybe you find your empathy showing up. Without someone looking at you with need and pain and disgust. But that is something you will have to work on. Sometimes love is what we do when we don't feel like it.

Perhaps, because of the intimacy required with your wife, and because of what you have done, you feel false. Not genuine. So all of your authentic feelings are wrapped up and put in a box. You didn't commit this crime against anyone else, so it's easier to find your normal emotions with them. But for her...you need to do some digging.

You also could have some stored up anger and resentment. I sometimes think people who have affairs must have some kind of resentment against their spouse. This could be hindering your ability to give her what she is needing from you. What could you be angry about? From years ago, recently, even now? What are you holding back from saying because you are the guilty one?

Good luck.

My wife had boundary issues, was selfish and probably the most defensive human I've ever known -- nothing was ever her fault.

I think she turned it all around because feeling things and doing things that way were unfulfilling. Her A didn't make life better, it made it worse on a number of levels (i.e., her poor esteem went from bad to non-existent).

Selfish doesn't always equate to self love. She kind of had to love and respect herself again to get her footing. Once she believed in her again, she was able to be more self-less and more giving.

It takes a while. Her need for validation is evolving. A couple months into R she thanked a former co-worker in an email exchange for reaching out and "noticing her" when she won an award in the business community. It was a lifetime reflex. But then the dude showed up uninvited to the ceremony and she realized her behavior was still asking for trouble.

Ultimately, to help the marriage heal, she had to become vulnerable with me -- which was tough fighting through the shame of it all -- in order to get us to a new, stronger bond. Being vulnerable again for either partner after infidelity is the hardest part in my humble estimation.

And that means no more excuses, no defenses, no manipulations. It means simply putting your effort into being safe and caring and completely vulnerable in order to have a shot.

We like to maintain a front, our 'best selves.'

Check. Yes, this is me. I grew up being the "fat kid", bullied at school and made to feel dumb and unwanted. My sadistic brother beat it into my head that I was stupid and useless and unwanted. My narcissistic mother made it all about her and that I should be who she wanted me to be. My rapist made me feel shame about who I am. All in all I had no voice and self love. So I go beyond simply wanting to present my "best self". I define my self worth through the love and admiration of others. When I get it I feel valuable and loved. When I don't, I crumble, and feel valueless and unwanted.

This is a big part of what I am working on now. Learning to love myself and fight off those old messages that tell me otherwise. It is not that I can't love others, I love fiercely. What I lack is the ability to gauge what is appropriate and not over-react. Not just in intimate relationships, but in everything - work, friends, family. Sometimes love is doing what is right vs what makes everyone happy. That's the filter I need to develop.

In affairs, the AP doesn't really *need* anything of you. They are the giver of things: sex, ego stroking, affection, attention. In marriages, you are expected to give.

^^^ This. I was suffering from depression, disassociation, CPTSD and a fractured personality complex at the time, so... I was already feeling like I was worthless and life was meaningless. The AP offered a me "blue pill" like in the matrix. It allowed me to stay in a fantasy where nothing was expected and leaving that fantasy meant dealing with the pain of the depression again.

Perhaps, because of the intimacy required with your wife, and because of what you have done, you feel false. Not genuine. So all of your authentic feelings are wrapped up and put in a box. You didn't commit this crime against anyone else, so it's easier to find your normal emotions with them. But for her...you need to do some digging.

Thank you for this. This makes sense. Hurting her like I did freezes me with fear. She's terrified that I might hurt her again. I'm terrified of the same thing. Not that I'd have another affair. But fear that I will do or say the wrong things, or simply not be there for her in the ways that she needs. And in doing so, in freezing in fear, I end up doing just that. I feel like a bull in a china shop, and don't want to move because every twitch seems to send glass flying.

You also could have some stored up anger and resentment. I sometimes think people who have affairs must have some kind of resentment against their spouse. This could be hindering your ability to give her what she is needing from you. What could you be angry about? From years ago, recently, even now? What are you holding back from saying because you are the guilty one?

Guilt and resentment. I wasn't there for her intimately for a long time, and she really needed me. It made her feel unwanted and uncared for. I also struggle with work, which makes her feel like she needs to be the one to take care of everything because she can't count on me. None of that feels good, to either of us. Eventually when I did want intimacy, the window had closed, she no longer wanted me when she felt she had been passed over already. Shortly before the A, the intimacy, work and money issues really were full bore, and we were no longer leaning into each other. I'm sure this played a large part in my shitty decisions as well.