SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

For me, if I was knowingly and willingly cheating with someone in a relationship, I would feel like scum... I would feel like I had become my father and that was something I swore to never be.

Dad was a serial cheater, caught multiple times. And add physically and emotionally abusive to his family and wife. He was everything I swore I would never be or become.

When he passed it ended the cycle of betrayal and violence for my mom. I was upset at the time, probably honestly for being confused by my conflicting emotions. But now, I can see his accident was a blessing to my mother that gave her a chance of some good years without abuse and betrayal in her life.

I've been to a different forum, Rollercoaster214, for OW/OM, but I'm sure it's the same kind of crazy as on Reddit.

It is very hard to read some of their drivel. And yes, they're always surprised when they discover they were being lied to. WTAF, people?!?

It is sometimes easy to spot the "brokenness", and while that's sad, anyone who gets off - literally or figuratively, and directly or indirectly - by hurting someone else is ...well, <insert all the bad words>.

@BlueIris, I agree that we don't have to agree on this. And I respect how you feel about this, too. I would imagine most of our WS's on our wedding day would have said exactly what you said and with much adamance. I would have, too. I also feel strongly that I wouldn't betray my FWH ever, but I will not say I "know". To me, that would feel as if I was being arrogant. It is all hypothetical, so in the end, does it matter? To me, not at all.

Knowing how easy it is to slip down the slippery slope for anyone, how easy it is to build walls and open windows, it keeps me vigilant. Vigilant to not take for granted either my or my FWH's fidelity. It keeps me from trusting blindly not only my FWH but anyone else for that matter. It keeps me vigilant to make sure my boundaries are always very strong and to not take for granted my strength and integrity and make sure I continue to build them up whenever life's circumstances throws a monkey wrench into our/my life.

I don't know bc I'm not one, and never will be. I don't waste any time trying to figure out what shit heads with shit for brains might think or feel.

I don't mean this offensively, but it's a silly question to ponder and is a waste of your energy. Don't give your energy to someone person who isn't worth it. It probably does a real disservice for you.

I hate seeing a betrayed spouse make excuses for a cheater. Cheaters had the personality traits and lack of character from the get go. There's no slippery slope if someone thinks the behavior is horrible. At some point, deliberate choices are made over and over.

This especially goes for longer term affairs or multiple APs.

Once- in my early sexual days - I actually fell prey (this is truly my view) to a man who wanted a mistress. I did not know there was a wife (no ring) only hung out for a minute a few times but there was sex one of those times. If I'm being honest, it was a little forced and the interaction was so quick. I convinced myself that i didn't feel used by it - that I didn't say NO - so I gave permission and that's just how he had sex. I was at his hotel alone with him - so that was permission. I was young and definitely naive. I actually saw an article about him with his background info in the paper. He was married. He called me often before this and after this revelation - I never confronted- I just never answered again. I never considered contacting the wife because I was like 18 and didn't really understand that I should feel a responsibility to her. I don't know but in hindsight I hope she's okay. I didn't understand that it would be considered an affair - he lied to me by omission but once I knew - I knew and he was outta my life. I could never be in a relationship with a married man or just have casual sex with an attached man. I compete for no mans heart! I learned this - the hard way- a million years ago. It does make it harder to understand my husbands AP- as she knew he was married - wears a ring - first conversations were about family. She is broken - I always thought I was broken as a CSA survivor - but I'm not the broken one! Just couldn't be a knowing AP!

ETA- I didn't know that I was an AP and do not consider myself one. I never would've hurt that woman or her family... ever! It was probably considered a ONS as I didn't play along. I haven't thought about this in years... not in years until recently.

[This message edited by Thislife at 4:59 PM, September 11th (Monday)]

SMS, I think we diverge at the "how easy it is to slip down the slippery slope" and especially the "for anyone". Again, I just don't buy it - people know what they're doing and they may compartmentalize or rationalize or just not give a damn, but they KNOW. Why else do they hide it? Ultimately, I firmly believe they all choose to allow boundaries to be crossed - either actively or passively - but none of these married WSs were fooled or tricked.

So to me? The slippery slope is not some scary risk that I or anyone else could accidentally fall victim to when boundaries are firmly in place. My values guide my actions, and there really are no mysterious exceptions to how that works.

I agree with SFTK - people cheat because they don't value fidelity over everything else. My own moral compass is powered by a strong internal locus of control, and values that override opportunity or personal angst.

I can't imagine having sex with a man and then sending him home to his wife. I know they tell themselves a million lies but deep down they know he is getting sex at home. So on top of arrogant and desperate.... jealous has to be there too.

Heart, I think they really do believe that their poor MM (or AP) isn't having sex. I also think that when they learn otherwise, they're very upset, as if the AP is the one who has been betrayed! "I knew he was lying to his wife, but I didn't think he'd lie to me."

Unless they're like the OW1 in my case: when he told her we were working on our M, she suggested that she could just be a little 'on the side' sumpin' sumpin' for him instead. But then, she was mostly in it for the money, and she didn't want THAT to end.

This thread is about how you would feel if you were an AP. There's been some critical and contemptuous remarks made about APs. Remember they all apply to the WS, too.

there are differences amongst ap

- those who didnt know and ended when they found out

vs

- those who didnt know at first and didnt end it when they found out

vs

those who knew and still did it

the first group are also victims, the second group were victims but then became part of the abusers, and the third group is the abusers.

The AP in my case was arrogant, entitled, competitive and predatory and just plain old out for herself.

I'm sure she thought she has won over me and had the prize....some prize...

But 6 months later they split because according to him she couldn't cope with him seeing me to do the logistics of our move/split...or the emotions he still felt when we argued or saw each other. So.....insecure and demanding that he had nc with me seems to be the case.....

I would guess it would depend on the type of person you are....I couldn't see myself ever going there tbh...

I am going to disagree with SMS also.

I do believe that there are people who are just not wired to be able to that and I am one of them, as are many other BS's here.

I also believe, as someone else said, that you have to have that character flaws that allow you to become that person. JMHO

I have had the opportunities to cheat and never have. I have had the opportunities to date more than one person at a time with full knowledge by the people I would be dating that i would be doing it and never could. It doesn't feel right for me. It goes against my integrity. It goes against everything I believe in.

I don't thing you can go down that road if the door to that road is firmly closed and always has been.

I believe integrity is the most important thing a person possesses and if I were to do something against my integrity, that would be the worst thing I could do to myself. I can honestly say that I will never cheat. It isn't arrogant, it is just who I am. I know that, and because i know that, there is no possibility of it happening. If I were to say I hope I would never do that, doesn't that just tell you that maybe your integrity does have a great big hole in the middle? JMHO

So, I would never be an AP. However, to answer he question as honestly as i can, knowing that it isn't something I could do, I would feel like the scum of the earth. Seriously feel like I had gone to the deepest, darkest, most horrific place in my life as to be capable of causing so many people that much pain just to make myself feel- I don't know, wanted? Desirable? Sexy? Accepted? (I already know I am those things and I don't need anyone else telling me. I like it when my WH tells me but I would know it even if he didn't tell me all the time)

I would know that I have a massive hole in my bucket and that i need serious therapy because you should never have to use another person to fill your bucket in any way. You should never need to destroy other peoples lives to fill even the biggest hole or the smallest hole in the bucket.

Steadychevy- I know my WH is also an AP. He was that horrible person. He did help destroy lives to try to fill his bucket. He did destroy her family as well as me and our sons lives to try to fill a tiny hole in his bucket. I also know that he lacked integrity. I actually knew he wasn't showing any integrity during his A, even before I knew about it. It really should have been a clue, but it wasn't. I thought he was just angry and not acting as he normally would because of work related stuff. He was a horrible person during that time. Only horrible people go to a place where hurting other people, more than they have ever been hurt before, is acceptable to them.

I am thankful that he is trying to live his life with integrity now. Without it, we would not be able to R

[This message edited by deephurt at 12:22 PM, September 12th (Tuesday)]

If SI has taught me anything, it is that I don't "know" what I would "never" do in any given circumstance. Those are words that I try to avoid using. When people use those words I will take them with a grain of salt. Not that I don't believe those people feel that way, I understand that is how they feel, and I respect that is how they feel. However, I have not found anyone that can predict the future accurately. I certainly can not. I suspect they can not either.

I really have no idea. I have never thought of myself as an AP. Never crossed my mind what if - flirting never led to me going hmmmm I wonder - Or man I think my M sucks I need to get laid and go out and do that - Or start bitching to a friend of mine who happens to be a guy, he starts saying all the right stuff and I'm like ohhhh he is nice I want him.

None of that happened for me. I never felt those things for another person while M'ed or in any R for that matter. Whenever I have been in any kind of R I have always been focused on that person. Even the 2 ONS I had way back in my day I was not having or dating anyone else. Just 1 guy ONS - months later the other one came along - I had kinda a friends with benefits 3 times I think with him - for me he was my only friend & benefit.

With those ONS's & the friend w/benefits I never approached anything deeper or more meaningful with any of them - and to my knowledge they were all single - I made sure of that. I have no desire to EVER be an OW for any reason. EVER.

So it's hard for me to answer this - I honestly don't think I could be an OW - knowingly. If I was lied to by the dickless wonder then we are gonna have some issues. Me & the guy not because I would want to keep him - but that he is awful person - and I would volunteer to be the BW;s star witness.

Have y'all read any OW boards on any other sites? Most OW think the WS love them, and don't care. They certainly do not feel dirty or ashamed. My husband's OW was a single woman he met on Ashley Madison. She set out to have an A with a married man. Who knows what was in her mind.

I hated it. Everything about it felt icky and shameful and wrong. I kept asking, "What's the plan? Why are we doing this?" And he kept changing the subject.

When I realized this wasn't a Romeo and Juliet, I ended things. And wanted a long, hot shower--to wash off my shame and humiliation.

Yuck.

So horrible.

Do many never get it?

FOO. They need therapy. They are all kinds of messed up. So sad for everyone.

I was unknowingly the side chick when I was in my early 20s. As soon as I found out, I ended it. In another relationship, I thought I was once again the side chick. I never confirmed it, but he acted the same way the first guy did. I ended it based solely on my feelings. I refuse to be #2. I have to be the one and only.

I was an unwitting AP once. It didn't matter that I answered EVERY question and told her things she didn't know about.

He mailed a letter to my job and admitted that I was there just in case things didn't work out between him and his wife. I mean he admitted using me to my face because he didn't see how that was wrong.

His wife assaulted me in public YEARS later. If I had had continued issues with her, I would have pressed charges. There are legal consequences for actions sometimes and I would have had no issue doing that. I didn't know he was married (I was 21 he was much older), offered up all the information she wanted and went NC the minute I found out.

I also feelstrongly that I wouldn't betray my FWH ever, but I will not say I "know". To me, that would feel as if I was being arrogant.

So true, Sister. Every time I thought I had life perfected, it had a good laugh at my expense. To think yourself immune to this or some other type of shameful error is to beg the universe to show you how wrong you are. No, thanks! I am no longer that foolishly, confidently arrogant.

None of us are perfect--not even close.

And the best of us can feel empathy for that truth. Our imperfection and compassion make us human.