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Numb and dumb: I would like to think that I’m changing for the good, being more honest with myself, rethinking my decisions each day and how they affect my family and my future. I’m starting to recognize my poor coping strategies and the walls ive put up around my feelings and emotions. For as long as I can remember, I never felt comfortable sharing my feelings about pain, weakness or suffering, I was much more comfortable keeping that to myself and internalizing it, which, of course, built up frustration, anger and resentment. I can fall back on low self-esteem as a reason but that certainly seems like a cop out answer that’s commonly used here on SI. To be true, honest, forthcoming, that’s the only way to be worthy of my H. I’m in IC, and she recognizes that I’m struggling with low self-esteem, but obviously, that’s not a reason for cheating, or lying or betrayal. The vulnerability that I had before the A, that AP most definitely saw and exploited, now can serve a purpose during recovery and hopefully R, so I can show my H that those barriers and defense mechanisms are no longer needed if we can build back intimacy. Trying to R is a huge risk that H must take if we recommit to each other, I recognize that. It’s a risk I know he’s not willing to take yet, but I think we’re heading in the right direction. I know that it what I want, after I have thought long and hard about our future. We’ve had some good days here, good discussions and positive realizations, intimacy and connection, that certainly gives me hope. I’m still bracing myself the roller coaster, because I know that can and probably will be the reality in the coming months. It’s normal to continue the ups and downs. I feel that’s still a small barrier that I have to protect myself from H’s anger or sadness, I’m working hard to knock down that wall and leave myself open to communicate any and all emotions and discussions.

I am ready and willing to do a poly, I still think that’s it’s a good idea. It would put H’s mind at ease with that confirmation that none of the A progressed to sex. A minor distinction in the scheme of things, but an important distinction just the same to H, as rideitout and nicenomore pointed out. As H (swatter555) said above, we’re waiting until after Christmas because of financial reasons. We’ve had good family time recently that I believe we both enjoyed. I make it a point to ask, talk, stop and think, apologize, reassess, reconsider, and slow down. I’m asking H for confirmation that I’m on the right track, saying things like, what do you think, do you agree, etc. I eff-ed up so much, during the A, but even more so after d-day, that it’s better to confirm with H that I’m on the right track, then to stumble around, wondering. That sounds selfish, that if I truly “got it”, I wouldn’t have to ask H for help, but I can recognize my intuitiveness does not serve me well. H, on the other hand, is quite intuitive and introspective and can easily recognize when I’m not being completely honest with myself or being defensive. That’s the result of a 22 year relationship.

I know what’s at stake. My family and future are on the line. I have revealed the ugly details of the A and told my H terrible lies and terrible truths about how I felt and had been feeling. I know if I’m not truthful, I will lose my life as I know it. I love my H and kids, they are my world. I thought I did everything for them, up until the A, then I did everything for myself, and they became second, third or dead last, in my life. The last messages in this thread, QuietDan and reisynder40, the A is over, I’ve had no contact with AP since a phone call in August. I’m not pining over or missing him, and H knows that, and confirmed it above. I want to be able to defend myself, and it seems that H does too. My default, knee jerk reaction is to be defensive but H calls me on it every time and I’m grateful he sees through my bullshit.

I’ve read a lot on here about false R, that it’s months or even years down the line that a couple finally recognizes that none of what happened during R was real. That unfortunately is a possibility for anyone, including H and I, so I don’t want to rush into R too quickly. Most people who respond say 5 months is a blink, so again, I don’t want us to fall into any traps of false comfort, and security of day to day life and intimacy that is trying to mask the true reality between us. I will continue to atone, empathize, introspect, learn more about myself and being a better person. I hope and pray everyday.

Thank you for your responses, and hope you all have a happy holiday season that is full of healing and peace.

Just a thought, for your consideration...

Proving myself worthy of my H daily is my goal.

I think a more achievable goal would be 'To do the next right thing.'

I think that the goal of of proving yourself worthy sets up a conflict within you - with low self-esteem, you can't be worthy of much.

You can, however, keep making good choices. That will help you build self-esteem and rebuild your H's trust. And whether you D or R, doing the next right thing is a pretty good way to live, all things considered.

Perhaps more important, doing the next right thing is achievable. Every voluntary action is a choice. Every time you choose a right thing to do you help yourself and perhaps others, too.

And if you blow one choice (nobody's perfect), you can pick yourself up and go back to doing the next right thing.

I think that's one way of looking at what my W did, and her incremental improvements were all I needed to decide to stick around.

From your earlier post...."

The last encounter AP's wife was out of town, kids too, so I went over to AP's house, fully intending to have sex,

I see very little gap between this and actual sex.

BM....you seem awfully guarded to me. You say the right things about feeling bad but some of it sounds like all things you should be saying. I really hope you get to poly. You've been on here talking about it for over 2 months now.

I'm amazed that you and your H are both on here. So intense.....trusting the advice of us strangers. Praying for you both and your sons.

Thank you for the prayers. We are planning to get a poly graph when we can afford it. In the mean time, we are trying to get through every day. It’s hard and scary, but the end game is worth it. My H talks about how smart I am, but this, all this, this big, ginormous cluster is my creation and I have yet to clean it up. I can see it for what it is, a series of mistakes, lies, deception and painful suppressions.

Sisoon: your advice about the next right thing is sound. I am trying to make it too big, too perfect. If I focus on the next right thing, that is an achievable goal. I make achievable goals everyday at work, I need to focus my attention at home.

I often say what I’m not doing or what I should be doing, what love, atonement, and empathy look like. I’m projecting a future I want with my family as the priority and telling myself that is my goal. But first, I need to break it down into daily communication and good decisions.

Lucky77: is that what we’re all doing here? Trusting the advice of strangers who have gone through or are going through something similar? Who have words of wisdom to share through testimony? I think it’s incredibly powerful and helpful to all who read it and respond to it. I’m grateful for the advice, but I’m also seeking professional help. I can’t talk to her everyday, and she hasn’t survived infidelity like we all are trying to. Right now, it’s a daily struggle.

I have a wonderful man who was willing to R, but has reason to change his mind because of my mistakes, and screwups. I am seeking love, security, and long term commitment. Do I deserve it from my H? Probably not, but I still want it. I know I don’t want this pain and experience to define us, and the way we talk about our past. Before the A, after the A, etc. Its heart breaking to look at H and see his pain, knowing I’m still the source of it and can’t turn it off. It’s not simple, it’s very complicated, it’s messy and terrible and yucky. My kids and my H are beautiful gifts from God that I thank Him for everyday. I turned my back on them and my faith and every principle and virtue I had thought I lived up to. I made stupid self-serving justifications for selfish acts, and tried to compartmentalize my feelings for the A and for my H. It didn’t work, and it ended abruptly because I was found out. H believes I have unresolved feelings for AP and the A itself, even though we’ve talked for dozens of hours for 5 months since d-day, more than we’ve ever talked in the last 22 years of our relationship. A lifetime together, negated by a few weeks of deception, lies and betrayal. I don’t think of AP fondly at all, I don’t think of the A or what I did with any longing or pleasure. I may have been falling in love with AP at the time of the A, but absence has not made my heart grow fonder. In fact, I have contempt and anger for AP. It disgusts me to think of what I did, how callous I was and the person I am because of what I did. Not the person I was, the person I am. That’s me, I am exactly everything that I did. I am a bad person who did a series of terrible things to the man I love, my best friend, my partner. I can’t profess to love my husband and do what I did, that cannot be reconciled. I take sole responsibility for what I did, I engaged willingly in everything we did. Selfish, wayward, self-serving, whatever you want to call it. That’s me. I don’t want to be that person, my H deserves so much more than me.

Hello Badmom,

I will retract my earlier comment that I didn't pick up on a vibe of really feeling contrition in your words. I felt them in your last note.

I think there's really a moment of breaking one's self down to a point of really complete brokenness before one can heal. I wasn't sure you had gotten there but you seem to have. The point is made of training wild horses or military recruits that they need to be broken down before they can be rebuilt in a better form which I think, for me as a wayward, was needed. I have pictured myself as a pile of beaten broken bones curled up in a lifeless shape as a result of my trangressions so many times.

There's a scene from a well known hollywood movie that I really relate to and think of often. I can send it your way if you would like but note it's quite violent. It shows a receiver of real punishment. That's what helps me. I feel the need to be punished as a tool for moving on. There's a book we all know where the protagonist wheres a colorful letter around their neck for their punishment. I don't think that's practical for this day and age though.

I really admire Swatter for joining in on this forum reading with you. My hat goes off to that guy for his bravery to face this reality and not simply say f this and run. This is such hard work to face, as you say, on a daily basis. He probably would like to see you be punished in some proper way but you are doing your own fair share of self punishment. I have hope for you both for R. For your kids.

To the point of pining for the AP I still have nightmares daily. I think there's a big difference for having feelings for the AP vs continued detoxing from the A like any drug addiction. I pray for you that you are just still detoxing.

So, BM, fellow wayward, you are not alone. I joked about the power of us collective group of strangers before but there is true power here.

BadMom9,

I don't know how else to approach this post except to imagine that you and your husband are actually me and mine so forgive me if I make assumptions and just take from this what you will. (Tiny bit of background: Dday for us was 18 years ago and it was actually YOUR husband that helped me have a breakthrough in my own relationship recently. THANK YOU SWATTER555!)

What I am about to say comes from a place of love because in a sense you are me and I am worthy of love (even though I am also a wayward).

Your husband has a gift. Very similar to my own husband. They can smell our insincerity a mile away. Although this is terrifying to us people that hide behind masks, it is this exact gift that FORCES us to breakdown and strip off all of our masks until we are bare and raw and ready to rise anew.

I see so many similarities just in the few post you and your husband have shared with us. It's pretty spooky really!

I see many good things in you such as you being here for starters. You are also coming to grips with your imperfections and working to overcome them. Something else good I see you are doing is you are 'repeating'. You are reading and learning from others and then repeating it. Some might see this as a bad thing...That you don't have an imagination, that you are not authentic, that you are incapable of introspection. No, I know better. You are desperate to be a better human being and are in fact turning everything you've learned into MANTRAS hoping for them to 'click' one day. You say them out loud to the universe and try to convince your husband AND yourself they are true. At least you are trying!

Something I would have loved to say to myself 18 years ago after dday, is 'trust him' ! Trust his love. Trust his guidance. Believe to the bottom of your toes that this human being is here to shine a light in your eyes but it is UP TO YOU to either take the blinding light and deal with all of the 'ugliness' that it shows or look away.

You need to work on releasing the fear that grips and runs your life. You need to face and make your peace with it. No matter how ugly or scary you believe it to be, face it and then release it! (I cant believe I'm about to say this but the universe gives me signs and I trust them! So... while I am writing this to you, Let It Go from the Frozen soundtrack just came on the radio... How beautiful is that?? Some might call me crazy but F-IT! Go listen to it and feel it!) ....

Then after you get there you need to expose your raw, naked, BEAUTIFUL self to your husband and watch the wonder that will bloom in his eyes! This is the key! To have your partner find beautiful to what you perceive to be too horrible show the world. You can do it!

To me this always sounded too selfish to accept but you MUST heal yourself BEFORE you can even attempt to heal your husband. And believe it or not, in my case they went hand in hand. The moment I started to SEE and heal was the exact same moment HE began to heal.

In regards to your sex life, let me tell you what... If you do what I am telling you, you are about to get exposed to a WHOLE world of intimacy that you might never have imagined! The feelings and pleasures you think you enjoyed with your AP will be KIDS PLAY!

Trust your husband!! Trust that his UNCONDITIONAL love will guide you through this and you will make it through a stronger warrior than you ever thought you could be.

It's one step at a time. One day at a time.

If this broken wayward can FINALLY take the first REAL steps to heal herself AND HER BS then so can ANYONE!!

Many blessings to you and your beautiful family

BadMom9

How are you? Haven’t heard from you since the holidsys

Thank you for checking on me, Lucky77.

It had been good and bad, still up and down through January, but mostly up and moving towards R. H (swatter555) said I was finally doing and saying the right things. I had felt lucky that he agreed to give me the gift of R. I had been seeing my IC and let H know what she said (I was mostly talking about H) and he didn’t always agree with what she said. So I’m going to find another IC that hopefully specializes in infidelity. I have been reading here often, and I know H has too. I know I should be posting more, but I still carry a lot of shame and self-hate. I have read how to help your spouse heal from your affair (I need to read it again) and am reading Not Just Friends and Brene Brown’s book about shame and other relationship/affair websites, but H says that I often sound too clinical and regurgitate the information without absorbing and internalizing it, which is true. H is excellent at calling my BS.

We’ve also had a session with our MC a couple weeks ago and she used the imago method with us to facilitate discussion and breaking down my barriers to communicate more authenticly. It was hard for me to articulate what I was feeling and to admit weakness but for H, he communicates freely. H was very encouraged by this session and I did feel that he was actually listening for the first time without interrrupting me to correct my thoughts or feelings. But I was acting strange after that session and H suspected that I was lying about something. My A was physical but no sex was involved,not that it wouldn’t have progressed to that in the future but I was caught first. And of course I TT for months, which made it so much more painful for H. He had said last month that he no longer cares about the details of the A but continues to ask about it, because he feels that he doesn’t have the whole truth.

I never showed true empathy. I’ve tried but I’m still acting selfish. All of our discussions are led by H and he’s usually spoon feeding me what I should be thinking. I’ve said so many times that I’ve told him all the details of the A, but he’ll test me again about my feelings during, after and now or details of the texts/sexts or events during the A and more lies come out that I justify by saying that I’m protecting him from more pain. This is wrong and I can’t seem to keep myself from doing it. This truth (no sex)is something that my H cannot accept, due to the fact that I have lied about so many other details of the A. Because of that, and my slow progress, H says he’s filing for divorce on Monday. I’m devestated, but not nearly as devestated as H was and is since he found out. He has reached his limit of BS and lies. I’m sleeping on the couch and trying to make his life as easy as possible,and trying to accommodate his wishes and see things from his perspective. He texted the AP’s W to confirm something and after that, he said we’re doing in-house separation and he’s filing for D on Monday. This is a new low for us. He’s talked about D all along but this seems definite.

If I had confessed it all on d-day and been honest from the very beginning, we may have been well on the way to R. But instead, I seem to sabotage the progress by sliding back into lying and manipulating him and trying to control the outcome or what he’s feeling or deciding. That is so inherently wrong, I can’t begin to describe the depth of the shithole I’ve buried myself in so deeply that I can’t possibly start to dig myself out. H often says I feel sorry for myself way too often, he’s right, of course. I cry often but try to shield my kids from seeing me too upset. But those are the consequences of my actions, I minimized and deflected and lies and now I have to live with it.

I am seeing the MC by myself on Tuesday, H says he has no desire to go, says I’m light years away from being ready for MC. I feel that he should go as a last ditch effort for us. I’m not sure he’ll be ready so I won’t force him.

This post was all over the place, I’m sorry. I was trying to follow sisoon’s advice by doing the next right thing. I will continue to do that. Because I love my H and kids more than anything and do not want to lose my family.

Badmom, I'm sorry for your BHs pain and that you both find yourselves in this horrible place. You said new TT from you and something that happened during the conversation with the OBS has led to your BSs decision to file. Do you know what info he was given during the call? Was the TT you admitting to more physical acts?

I chose to comment because I started a task recently that I believe may help you with the TT. I am a BS and in hope of being able to process my WHs A and other wayward actions I decided to write out all the betrayals that my WH has admitted to and even some things I remember occurring throughout our marriage which he and I have not discussed recently. After writing out the list (LONG!!) I have, on several occasions, read the list out loud (when I'm alone) Somehow saying those things out loud over and over takes some of the sting away. For example, I wrote (and then read out loud) that 'My WH chose to remove his wedding ring before going to the bar that night in hopes of behaving like a single man' 'My WH chose to have sex with a complete stranger within 1 week of arriving at his duty station' It really has helped me to control my rage some when he and I have discussions. It does nothing to change what happened but it somehow takes away some of the power of those words that are completely soul crushing. I thought maybe if you could take away some of the initial shame and guilt and 'shock factor' of your words and feelings associated with them then you would find it a tad easier to be honest with him during conversations. Sorta like, you have to be honest with yourself first and learn how to actually speak the awful truth that is at times, impossible to verbalize because of the emotional and physical pain the words bring.

I may not have explained myself well and if that's the case, I apologize. And unfortunately it may be too late for this exercise to help you and your BS. But I can honestly say from my own experience and from the hundreds of hours of reading that the D word gets thrown around a lot. Don't give up trying not even if the D is seen through to finality. If you really love him and are committed to change and healing for you both, then it's never too late. That doesn't mean you should try to change his mind but you should continue on the path of healing for you and even for him, in whatever capacity he may allow.

Good luck to you both. This shit is hard!

[This message edited by Thisfknsux at 12:19 AM, February 11th (Sunday)]

Hi BadMom9,

Good to hear from you. You are clearly trying for R.

I offer you two things:

- Keep. Telling. The. Truth. Let it all out in all its ugliness.

- I have not seen you use the term "Sorry" in your postings. Have you told your H how sorry you are?

I've been very into reading Mrs Walloped's thread of late. I've been taken by a wayward who's main message to BS is one of contrition. I note you are busy processing the Why's of what you did. But think how much you are truly contrite.

Praying for you on your journey.

Thank you for your replies, Thisfknsux and Lucky77. And I very much appreciate the prayers and good luck wishes.

The TT was that I was fantasizing about AP at the same time that H and I were having sex. H knew that it was true but that I couldn’t admit that, because it’s so ugly and hurtful to H and his ego and masculinity. All of this has been incredibly painful for H, I wish I spare him the pain, but it’s too late, I’m living with consequences of my actions.

H would not say specifically what he found out from OBS but that she’s questioning AP about the details of the A from his perspective. AP freely admitted to the A to OBS, but left out all the details apparently besides the fact that we didn’t have sex, that’s the only thing OBS confirmed to H. She is checking her calendar and credit card statements for any suspicious charges. I don’t expect to be vindicated by this, but it may put some of H’s doubts about what happened during the A to rest. However, these details are coming from 2 liars (me and AP), so it obviously can never be truly confirmed in H’s mind. And that’s what H cannot reconcile in his mind. Even if we end up reconciling, I know that he’ll never fully trust me.

H and I talked last night and he has relented some, saying he won’t start filing for D tomorrow, but still is strongly considering separation. He is struggling to find a way to trust me since I haven’t given him a reason to trust me yet, besides being transparent about where I am and who I’m with, sharing my location on my cell phone and full access to my phone and emails, etc. I don’t blame him one bit for all that he’s thinking, feeling and doing. I’m trying to be a better person every day and pray for strength and humility.

As far as being sorry and contrite, I say that I’m sorry or I apologize on a daily basis to H for the A and the lies and anything else I’ve done wrong, but my words have mostly fallen flat, for obvious reasons, because of all the previous lies. So he has asked that I stop saying I’m sorry, but I still say it and mean it, because from the bottom of my heart, I wish that I could take away his pain and could have kept him out of the terrible position of having to live with a cheating liar. I say I love you on a daily basis as well, multiple times a day, but as you can imagine, falls on deaf ears...why he should believe that I love him and can possibly love him after all I’ve done and continue to do? If I really loved him, I wouldn’t have had the A in the first place or fell in love with another man. I believe now that he’s forced to consider separation, not because he believes that we had sex, but that he cannot trust anything that I say regarding the affair because I’d choose to lie to save myself or falsely justify minimizing the feeling or emotion.

Honesty is the one thing that H insists on unequivocally, and that’s been my kryptonite. I have such ingrained defense mechanisms and coping strategies of minimization and lying to myself to save face or pain, that I can’t get past myself most of the time. H is trying desperately to help me, I see that and I know that, that’s the kind of man he is. Being proactive and honest above all else about my feelings and everything else, fixing myself by practicing empathy and compassion to the man I love, thinking about how every important decision affects H and my kids, all of these things together are my plan and I pray for strength and appreciate the support from SI as well as the 2x4s that I need to shake loose my fears, barriers and stupidity.

Thisfxnsux, that’s a good strategy to say the indiscretions out loud, to actually listen to the ugliness and pain, in my case. And how much it would hurt to turn the tables and feel that same humiliation and pain.

SelfishCheater: I can read your hope in between the lines, thank you so much for your words and blessings. The angst I feel when I think about releasing the fear and being raw and open and vulnerable, is palpable. But I think our last MC session, I started to finally open up, and of course, it scared me. H doesn’t understand how difficult it is for me, but I’m still using the fear as an excuse to not to push myself beyond my comfort zone and feel everything honestly and authenticly and put myself out there to whatever happens.

Thank you again, everyone for your posts, I appreciate your views and thoughts and your support.

Mrs. BM, I beleive in the power of redemption. I have to, because I have needed it desperately more than once.

But redemption is not given, it is earned. It is earned by surrending the need to control, avoid, manipulate, manage the outcome. When you give up struggling, and become very still and small, and say, from your heart, "I don't want to be this person even one moment longer," you take the first step.

And then you begin to tell the truth. And in so doing, you begin day by day and step by step to become a person with integrity.

You're far beyond the point where further manipulation can give you the outcome you want. The only gift you have left to give, to yourself and to your husband, is the truth. You have asked what you can do. He has replied, tell me the truth. Up to now you have denied him the one first thing he asked for.

As Sisson very wisely said, it is time to do the next right thing.

Whether your marriage ends or not, whatever the outcome, you have held in your hands every day the power to help your husband heal. Up to now you have chosen every day to withold what he needs to heal.

Are you ready to help yourself yet? Are you ready to help your husband? Really, I am asking you to ask yourself that question with total honesty. I am not asking you to answer out loud. I dont need to know your reply.

If you are, tell him the entire truth. Everything. And flag and correct every lie. Look at the lies you are most deeply committed to, and end them with the truth. Give him the gift you have withheld. Give him the only thing that is truly loving, and shows true respect, which is the complete truth.

It may be you cannot do this. This is the hardest thing you will ever do and there are many reasons why you may not be able to. You can get help with those from a good individual therapist and I hope you do.

But there is still today, and the choice of the next right thing right now. And that choice cannot be put off one day longer.

The best next right choice would be to give the gift of whole and complete truth.

But if you are not able to put down the illusion of control -- and realistically you may not be-- the alternative next right choice is to admit that to yourself, and your husband. Tell him that one truth, at least.

This may sound stern, and it is stern. But I write to you from the heart, as someone who has stood, rooted, paralyzed, terrified to tell the truth and be seen and not be in control. I know it is hard to do. I know the lies you tell yourself to persuade yourself that you can still keep your lies to others and not have to be seen. But I know also that all health I have in life began when I surrendered to the truth.

I truly hope, really hope, you will make good next right choices.

Just jumping on this bandwagon too.

My IC says that H needs to come to an acceptance of me for us to move forward.

Why did you mention this? Is this what you feel too? What you want him to do?

As long as you are defensive, you will keep the R stuck. Defensive is not being remorseful. Defensive is selfish. He knows this as you said and sees it for what it is. So, stop defending yourself. There is nothing left to defend.

I know I don’t want this pain and experience to define us, and the way we talk about our past. Before the A, after the A, etc.

But it will and it does. For years. The sooner you accept that and make it part of your life like another milestone, the better. It isn't going to go away. It will rear its head even 5 years from now. That is the just the reality. This is your new marriage. How well it works depends upon your husband's ability to heal and give grace. Your ability to come to remorse and change. You know what to do. Real remorse gets past your fear. As long as you stay stuck in your fear and inability to be vulnerable by accepting and owning this and who you were, you risk losing your M.

Don't get discouraged. It takes years for some to get out of their self absorbed/selfish mindset and change. You both will know it when it happens. Right now it is still about what you want. What you value. Your fear. It takes precedence over everything. Your husband is just waiting for you to stop being that selfish. Hopefully, you do it before he has had enough. Ultimately it is on you to be more proactive. Take the step. Find yourself. Maybe save your marriage. Or choose to stay guarded and lose everything. The choice is so easy. The action is so hard. But, once you do it-you will be amazed at how simple it all really is.

Why?

Honesty ...... that’s been my kryptonite. I have such ingrained defense mechanisms and coping strategies of minimization and lying to myself to save face or pain, that I can’t get past myself most of the time.

Why is this?

It seems that you are in a sinking, deflating raft that is your marriage and you're holding a repair patch that is "Honesty and Transparency" but you aren't using it.

BadMom:

You may have been asked this before, but what would you do if you were in your husband's situation?

Zugzwang - Well said, as always, you have amazing insight into wayward thinking and behavior, thank you for your posts.

I realize that acceptance of the affair as part of our history is key. Not rug sweeping but looking at it for what it is. An ugly series of events, emotions and feelings that I controlled completely and resulted in me throwing away my life and everything that mattered.

Leaving myself open to being vulnerable and communicating freely with feelings and emotions will help to facilitate progress, I know that. Yes, it's simple in theory but hard in practice. I am reading Brene Brown's book on shame and it certainly is making a lot of sense and applies directly to my life. I think much of my life has been motivated by guilt, and I've told my H this very thought in the past, but really, I think it's shame. About the person I am, not what I've done.

farsidejunky - if my H would have done the same thing that I did during the affair and then framed an innocent woman and then lied repeatedly to cover up stupid teenage activities that they did, making it seem so much worse and TT the rest of the details, all the while acting selfish and self-serving? I would have great difficulty believing that story, if I ever could. Point taken, yes, I would be struggling with this and more if it were the other way around.

I continue to be saddened that I thrust my H into this situation and he is crushed by it. I wish I could find more ways to help him. He is in so much pain, I'm listening to him and empathizing as best I can. Although I think V-day is a somewhat artificial holiday, in the past, H and I had liked to celebrate by going out. We really aren't feeling that this year, for obvious reasons.

H reached out to OBS and she now realizes that she didn't get any of the details or real story about the A from AP. H was hoping for closure, but it seems OBS is not ready to hear what H has to say and won't confirm any of the A with AP. I'm not sure what H expected from OBS, but I wasn't expecting anything, I was surprised that she responded at all.

H has consented to go to MC, and for that I am very grateful. I am grateful that he's still living with me and talking to me, wearing his wedding ring and showing me courtesy and generosity of spirit. Because I've certainly beat out a lot of his spirit and life with the affair and its aftermath. Even so, he's seemed to make a shift into acceptance of the past, but also told me last night that he regrets it already. I'm still trying hard to atone and do the next right thing. H is an incredible man, brave, smart, and honest.

If only....etc, etc, etc. But I can never go back. I must go forward, and not get stuck in helplessness, fear and sadness. That's the only way to get through this. Please pray for me and swatter555. Happy Valentine's Day. I wish everyone peace and happiness.

Could you clarify whether your husband believes you had sex and you need to prove you did not with a poly?

Don't get stuck in shame. You can't change the past. Accept it. Own it. Learn from it. Change. Put your effort and worth in becoming someone better you can be proud of. Not who other people are proud of. Not for them. For you. Yeah, maybe you think you were a monster in the past. The past doesn't define who you want to be in the future.

Our roller coaster has continued with big downs and a few little ups. I found another therapist who dug in quickly and saw how alcohol has played a big part in my life and I have family history of alcoholism.

So there’s that.

While it’s not the only contributing factor to why I did what I did, I can see with more clarity who I am because of the choices I make when I am drinking. There’s a huge trust issue, of course, between H and I. He told me last night that my whole life is a lie. I’ve put up an image, a facade of who I thought I should be and what I should be doing to be a good person. All lies. None of it was authentic, I wanted to look good in everyone’s eyes, but to the person who mattered most, I didn’t care enough to explain how I felt before the A. During the A, I’m trapping myself in shame and not wanting to get out of it. Now I’m often in a shame spiral/pity party that wastes everyone’s time. I know that’s not strength, that’s not love, that’s not remorse. It’s selfish and pathetic, and it needs to end.

Vulnerability is a powerful thing after the emasculation of an A, and I’m trying to put myself on the line to show H how much I love and care for him and my family. I just recently told my mom, my brother and one of my sister in laws. That was actually cathartic, I know I’m hiding and it does no good, ever, to hide behind a false image. I’ve projected it most of my life but I believe strength comes from vulnerability, instead of trying to numb the pain and all the other bad stuff that as humans, I’ve tried to avoid.

H is giving up, heading for D and I don’t blame him. I accept this blame and take responsibility for it as best I can. I will probably have to move in with my parents for awhile with my kids. They’ll have to switch schools and get new friends and go between 2 homes...lives ruined forever...because of me and my stupidity and selfishness. That is truly heartbreaking and life changing.

I can’t undo anything and I’m not getting it fast enough for H to believe there’s any sustainable change to put any faith in. I can say that I’m not cheating, or doing things behind his back anymore but he still finds lies in asking details about the A. I’ve made up lies because I can’t remember the details. That is wayward, I don’t think I’ve dug deep enough in my memory to truly try to remember every detail accurately. H thinks I’m delusional and a crazy bitch he needs to get away from.

My atonement is for shit, I try to buy him little things or keep up other house stuff, text during the day so he knows I’m thinking about him, etc but that’s meaningless. It doesn’t add up to anything that matters or can move his meter when it comes to our relationship. I’ve tried way too hard to control the outcome of all of the chaos and of course, that doesn’t ever work. I’ve told my boss that I don’t know what’s going to happen between H and I, that was one of the most frightening things I’ve done at work. I don’t want to lose my job, of course, but my shit at home had been spilling over and affecting my work, as hard as I tried to compartmentalise. Which I did pretty effectively during the A, so I could keep everything straight.

But now I’m continuing to trip over all my lies that I told at d-day and during TT. I’m desperately trying to make things right but I seem to dig myself deeper into the shithole I dug and creating more pain for H and kids.

H and I must live together for now, due to circumstance and he’s demanding we act normal around the kids. He’s relented at times over the last 8 months and acts kind towards me and we are occasionally intimate. But this roller coaster I know isn’t sustainable and it’s nothing that will last, I don’t expect H to stay around just for the kids indefinitely. That’s one outcome I can never control. I know he’s committed to being there for his kids, he’s a wonderful father and a good man, that’s a fact. What happens in the future, who knows. I can try to be the best person I can be for myself, for H and for my kids. The rest is up to God.

And God help us.

So good to hear from you BM9. As you had asked a couple of weeks ago I actually have been praying for you and Swatter. Please continue to stay in touch. You’re going through hell and we are here for you.

So now alcohol is out there on the table. That’s something you can have impact on. Red wine and I were enemies until I hit bottom. And crashed. Hard. Really fucked up.

Your not alone in your mess. I find comfort sometimes humming Amazing Graze and celebrating the wretch I am. Love that word. Wretch. I embrace it.