SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I agree he shouldn't sign anything if that is the decision he makes with respect to the situation. I was just pointing out there is a difference between the birth permit and birth certificate, they are not interchangeable.

I am so sorry you are living through this Ganondorf (very cool The Legend of Zelda reference by the way). Take care of yourself

I'm confused as to why you would ever possibly even consider being named as a father of a child that isn't yours? Sounds like nothing but a life-long nightmare! Are you so tied to China that you can't leave? I'd be on a plane shaking the dust off my feet!

Ganondorf,

Welcome to the wonderful (read as fucked-up) world of infidelity. In your case, it is even more screwed up with being in s country that is kinda confused.

China is technically Communist, but because the draw of the $ is so great, they have embraced Capitalism. Two seemingly polar opposites.

This translates to some of the people also. They retain the pragmatism of Communists, and chase the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Your WW was looking at you as a vehicle for her visa to end up in the US. Common. The US has been the end goal for a lot of PRCs, as they (and many other citizens of other countries) see it as the land of opportunity. Would not be surprised if her AP is also Caucasian.

Don't know about the laws in China, but they were quite draconian when your WW was born. One child policy stuff.

As such, society there changed, as the parents tended to molly-coddle their only child. These children grew up with a huge sense of entitlement, as they were usually given, or did, anything they wanted, and usually with no thought about consequences.

The social fabric changed, from a Confucian approach, to an almost mercenary approach to life.

Moral of the story, just because an expat can speak Manadarin fluently, does not mean they can understand the culture there. The cultural gap is a chasm. Something that a lot of male expats fall into (demure Asian girl, but is actually a scheming shrew).

Best thing you can do for yourself now, is to look after yourself, and your own interests. Protect them. Get legal advice from your consulate/embassy.

Sorry to hear about your situation Ganondorf.

Firstly and most importantly, don't put your name on anything associated with that child. You have no clue as to how badly that can screw your life up. Don't do it. She knows that you don't understand the laws there and she also knows the financial liability that could carry for the rest of your life. Don't do it. The worst thing you can do in this situation is to have your name associated in any way with that child. Tell her to put the real father's name on the cert. The Chinese government doesn't play games when it comes to a foreign parent's liability. She's leading you into a trap and that trap will reach across the globe, find you, and make an example of you. Do not step into that hornet's nest.

Secondly, divorce that woman as quickly as humanly possible. Do not allow her to ruin your life more than she already has. If you act quickly you may be able to get out of this thing relatively unscathed but if you dither on getting free you could end up ruining your financial and physical future. Again, the Chinese government doesn't play games with foreigners. Do not ever think that they won't come after you. Don't waste time and don't listening to that woman. Get free now before your world goes fully sideways.

Thirdly, never forget that you are more valuable than to be treated as she's treated you. I'd suspect she's been lying to you for a long time; possibly from the moment you met. Your future is more important than to allow someone to deceive you out of it. Treat yourself like you would your best friend. Take care of yourself and your future by breaking away clean. There are other women out there who are actually decent woman. Take some time to fix your woman picker and don't continue to spend time with deceptive people. Learn the signs; train yourself. You are the prize; treat yourself accordingly. I wish the best for you.

Ganondorf, how are you doing? Please heed the advice on here.

She is pregnant with another man's baby. The certificate whether its a birth or otherwise is not your problem. You have to get legal representation STAT b/c you are a foreigner.

Think about how China treats their prisoners... Why would you openly lie to the Chinese government by signing that birth/whatever certificate. She cheats on you, and you may end up financially responsible for that child, or worst yet, end up in jail for lying to the Chinese government. Hell NO dude!!

If those Chinese laws against infidelity are tough, youd get your money back. Take that and run. There are plenty more out there. Dont let this one sucker you anymore.

Do not break the law by having your name added to the birth certificate.

Get a lawyer ASAP.

Let your company know what is going on and have her removed from the “company’s apartment”. Could her and the other man living there get you fired?

Get a lawyer already.

I think it is easier to stay.

It’s hard to up root and change everything.

you have no children. what you do have is a WW who is just a tramp and some other man's sex thing at this point.

you have no dog in this fight. they're using you as it is with the living arrangement as the OM is a POS who can't even support himself.

wash your hands of all of this. put your money into your divorce attorney to get rid of her and all association and support for her. give her nothing. sign nothing unless your attorney says you actually benefit from signing.

get as far away as possible from this trash woman. she's owned by a loser now. he can have her. and his little kid to go with it.

[This message edited by rugswept at 4:20 PM, June 25th (Tuesday)]

Go to the nearest US embassy or consulate. ASAP.

Thanks for all the support.

She contacted me a little this week and that kind of takes me a step back from the anxiety and such. She wants to have a face to face chat soon. I know it’s going to be at least regarding the permit, but I’m kind of curious as to how she’s going to try and convince me.

A few things:

She’s not in it for the money. I don’t have much. I had a lot less to offer than the typical Chinese person would have to offer. She’s also not in it for a visa. We never dismissed the possibility of living in the US, but we both kinda know she can’t live without her family. For all intents and purposes we would probably just have lived in China.

Going forward, however, I’m financially stable and better off than most. Plus I still have room to earn more if I really wanted to. That’s definitely something that will affect her decision

I’m not in a position to sue her. So I can’t go that route. I would need to sue her to get “everything” I’m legally entitled to. But I don’t feel like I’m owed anything. She’s done so much for me in this relationship. The property was her idea and if she’s able to sell it at a profit that’s her money. I just want my portion. She needs it to settle her debt anyway.

I don’t think the embassy can’t really do anything for me. I could e-mail them about the permit but it’s still best if I ask a lawyer about it. Calling just gets automated messages.

A birth permit and certificate are different things. The permit requires both our marriage certificates and IDs. So she can’t write my name without my passport and certificate apparently.

I don’t know all the intricacies of how the two interact with each other. I don’t know what’s necessary to get the child registered on their “Hu Kou” which is a family registry and is required to get an ID. No ID means they don’t exist. Can’t attend school, etc.

Not having the permit is also potentially scary. China is a country where those horror stories are probably very true depending on where you live and who you know. She’ll probably have to pay some fines. She won’t have an easy time giving birth in a hospital. She’ll lose access to certain benefits. I’ve also heard of forced abortions but that’s probably something that is kind of specific to certain areas.

I’m not going to sign anything without consulting a lawyer first. I don’t feel obligated to help her either. This is her mess. She can marry the OM. Or marry someone else. Or if there’s a way to get the child an ID as a single mother, she can figure out how to make that happen. However, if the easiest option is me, and there aren’t any negative consequences then it’s something I could consider. Not for her, but for the child.

She’s not an evil person. I can say that with a decent amount of certainty. She’s not doing any of this to try and get anything from me. Not yet at least. She just doesn’t want the child to suffer.

I don’t know how she feels about the AP. I don’t know with certainty if he’s moved in with her, or if he just used that place as a temporary residence while he found his own. Regardless, it’s still messed up, but she’s really determined not to marry him at the moment.

Yes, 10 years down the line she might decide oh hey his name is on the whatever maybe we can use this to go to America or get child support. I highly doubt she’d ever try and milk money out of me. It’s also unlikely she’d want an easy path to the US, but I’ve considered that as well and it’s something I want to discuss with the lawyer.

I’ve emailed a few and I’m waiting to see if I can pay for the consultation this month or if I need to wait for my next pay check.

It’s really hard to sum up our 7 years. She’s done quite a bit for me. Really has. The worst parts of her have all surfaced at once and yes, she’s trying to do everything she can to make sure her poor decision making skills don’t royally screw her. I think most of us would grab whatever we could if we were sinking. I don’t blame her for that. She’s not grabbing at anything with any intent to hurt me.

Our relationship has had issues. I can see why she found comfort in an affair. I don’t condone what she did, but I can understand how she arrived there. That’s why I don’t judge her as harshly as most people here seem to be. There are always better choices. She’s a very bad decision maker. I knew that going into this marriage. I even tried to change what our boundaries were to mitigate the damage an affair causes. Because it was something that was always in the back of my mind. Again, what hurts me most is her decision to end our relationship. Then the unprotected sex. Then the lies. And all the opportunities she had to reduce the damage that she’s caused.

I still want reconciliation on the table. A child is a child. If I raise it, it’s mine. If she can convince me that there’s a reason to stay, then I might. But I’ll also discuss that with a a lawyer. I want to make sure I have an exit strategy if it’s possible to have one. If it’s not possible, then perhaps a divorce is in my best interest and then we’ll see if time can bring us back together.

I’m fairly certain, however, that divorce is the end. She and her brother think a divorce might actually help, but to me a divorce is the end of any form of relationship.

The affair has already been blown out of the water. Her mom, brother, sister in law, and most of her friends think she should have an abortion and stay with me. Everyone has been blindsided by this, because everyone knew how much she loved me. She fought really hard to be with me, much to her family’s disapproval at first.

Unfortunately all of them are kind of ignorant when it comes to abortions and a big problem with all of this is their fear of her becoming infertile because of the abortion. Specifically her and her father seem to worry about this the most.

This isn’t easy for me. It’s my own unique set of beliefs that push me to stay. Whatever the hardship, I intended to help her through it. She’s lost right now. I know her better than herself in some ways. She’s doing a lot of this because she’s trying to make herself be the bad person she sees herself as. It’s in part to punish herself. It’s in part to help her feel less guilty. I think she’s not as deep in the fog as she was when her AP was married, but I still don’t think she even knows where she is. I just want to make sure she's thinking very clearly, and that I'm thinking very clearly, when we go through with whatever we decide to do. I'm still very emotional myself. I spent half the time saying I was ok with a divorce, and then begging her almost immediately after to not leave.

So I’ll talk with a lawyer soon hopefully. No rush for me in this situation. If I can somehow protect myself if I decide to stay, but we decide to divorce anyway, I think that’s the best option for my own set of beliefs and values.

But all of you are right. It would be very easy for me to just leave and it could be the best thing for me. I just need a little more time to think about what’s really important to me. If you are against abortion, how hard would it be to convince you to have one? Marriage has a very deep meaning to me. It’s disappointing that it didn’t have a similar significance to her, but I’m not going to abandon her first chance I get.

However, right now, I’m not going to beg to stay. If she insists, then I’ve reached the point where I could go through with it and not fall apart and beg for her to change her mind. And if she wants to stay, she better have a pretty damn good plan to convince me she’s worth it.

Also we're not living together. We've lived separately for a month now. She's at the apartment we paid for end of March. We each paid half the year's rent. I moved out middle of May to my work apartment in a different city. Time away from her has helped settle my brain and heart a bit.

I'd comment further Ganondorf but you've already heard it from others...I wish the best for you.

Staying with your wife = worst decision of your life.

You said in your post that you know her better than she knows herself. Did you know she would cheat?

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"

A Chinese proverb. This can be interpreted in a number of ways:

1. You need to take the first step to get to the end of a long journey.

2. You know the journey is long, but you will need to take the first step to get there.

What is the difference? The first interpretation is embarking on something that you don't know when the end point is. The second interpretation is that you know how far the end point is, you plan how to get there, then you take the first step.

Yes, 10 years down the line she might decide oh hey his name is on the whatever maybe we can use this to go to America or get child support. I highly doubt she’d ever try and milk money out of me. It’s also unlikely she’d want an easy path to the US, but I’ve considered that as well and it’s something I want to discuss with the lawyer.

This is her possible end point for her thousand mile journey. It will take time, but in the end, she can bring her family over to a better country.

As to talking to your consulate/embassy, it will help you understand the Chinese Laws, and what your rights are. If they are not able to assist you on that, they could well point you to some Chinese lawyers who can help you. Use them as a resource.

Not having the permit is also potentially scary. China is a country where those horror stories are probably very true depending on where you live and who you know. She’ll probably have to pay some fines. She won’t have an easy time giving birth in a hospital. She’ll lose access to certain benefits. I’ve also heard of forced abortions but that’s probably something that is kind of specific to certain areas.

These are consequences that she has to face, for actions she took. Unfortunately, the Strawberry Generation (I would think you would be familiar with this term since you live in Asia) are not big on thinking of consequences.

It’s my own unique set of beliefs that push me to stay.

What are they? Are the beliefs faith, religion, professional (e.g. doctor) based?

- What belief would compel you to stay with a cheater that will is carrying a child from another man?

- Do you see yourself as saviour of sorts? A Knight In Shining Armour rescuing a damsel in distress?

I know her better than herself in some ways.

We all have this romantic illusion of this, but the reality is, what we know about our SOs is what they tell us, or what we have observed in the time that we have been with them. If you really knew her, then this would not have played out the way it did (unless you wanted it to play out this way).

Your thousand mile journey is how to get out of infidelity, and you should be planning now.

The first step is to talk to a lawyer for advice and guidance...... now.

Every time I hear a betrayed spouse say "I know (the cheater) more than they know themselves. I know what they think. I know what they will do."

I cringe. I want to shout "You only think you know".

But it is your life and your future. Please don't make a mess of it by thinking you can fix her, because you cannot.

“Did I know she would cheat?”

I knew it was a possibility. But I also think given the right circumstances, for most people, overstepping a boundary is not an impossibility.

I did attempt to redefine what our boundaries were. She was just never on board. So this situation doubly hurts. Escalated the severity of her lie.

“I know my spouse better than they do”

I understand the cringe. But I didn’t say it that way. I said in some ways. I know she isn’t “me”. I don’t know if she loves me. I don’t know what she’s thinking. I don’t even know if she’s ever going to look back and feel remorseful. I hope so, if not, then I married a monster. I know her decision making pattern fairly well. So I'm just waiting for our emotions to stabilize a little more.

“What are they? Are the beliefs faith, religion…”

Tough Q. This is very deeply ingrained in me. Marriage was a lifelong commitment on my part. I don’t like abandoning people I care about. The bond I have with her is the strongest bond in my life. I see her as “blood”. She’s my family.

I don’t see myself as her savior. She needs to save herself. If she’s willing to do the work I’m willing to stay by her side. But we all know at this point in time that’s not going to happen.

I’m trying to detach. As mentioned, 99% sure we’ll be divorced soon. If I'm not willing to sign anything I don't even think a lawyer consultation is necessary but we'll see. She wants to talk face to face soon, probably next week. I'm going to suggest we just talk on the phone.

Toxic relationship, you already expected her to cheat, now there's another man's child that she wants you to father?

She wants a talk in person because she knows how to get to you to get what she wants.

She just needs to know exactly where you are right now.

She is choosing between you and OM who's the best to solve her problems. Or find a way to keep you both.

Marriage was a lifelong commitment on my part.

Okay, this is essentially good on a base level. Problem is, if you stick to it no matter what the costs are, then it becomes blind (like blind faith). Anything that is followed/believed without understanding or questioning has a high chance of being dangerous.

I don’t like abandoning people I care about.

Hmmmm, again like above, if it is blind, then it is dangerous. What if the people you care about do not care about you? You mean to say that you will still stick to them?

This is doormat territory.

The bond I have with her is the strongest bond in my life.

In what way? You have no family nor friends? Is this a romantic notion?

I see her as “blood”. She’s my family.

Is this also a romantic notion? Has your family betrayed you so badly before?

It is good that you seem to be detaching, as this will not end well for you if you stay on in the M.

This is the ONLY way you will start to heal.

- disassociate from her and go complete no contact. Change your number.

- direct any communication through your attorney.

- go get some professional help. It’s nothing to be ashamed of, we’ve all been there. Therapy WILL help you through the next few months.

If you do anything other than this then your life will get materially worse. She has moved on and is living with the father of her child. It cannot be any more black and white.

You know what's really messed up? We got married on my birthday. I was very much against it but she insisted and I gave in.

I wish she was capable of understanding how much damage she's caused, but she probably never will unless it happens to her.

@Lostwillow

Yes, she's just trying to figure out a way to solve her problems.

I didn't expect her to cheat, but I also think most people are capable of doing so provided the right circumstances. I dont blame myself, but I did kind of set the stage.

@Rocket

Right, I agree. It's not blind faith. There is still goodness in her. But I recognize right now she's only able to think about herself. Divorce is necessary.

It's not a romantic notion. I've had a lot of issues with my family but we're on good terms now. I'm just not very close with them. She's been the only person in my daily life for a while. I don't really have friends here either.

Also it's just I've given up on quite a few important things way too easily and regret it. Just want to make sure I don't feel regret in this situation.

As for detached... I'm mostly fine. It's mostly when she sends a message that I panic. I'm also fixating on the divorce which is causing anxiety. Also mind movies have started. Meh

@Sharkman

I actually don't know if he's with her now but I know that's not the point. Regardless, I can do NC once the divorce is over. That's actually been my plan for a while.