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Sanibelredfish - I wasn't chastising you at all or saying you were supporting her BH. In fact, I was mostly responding to BFTG's comments about his coworkers likely mocking him. I was just pointing out that if that was happening surely he would have decided to move jobs or do something that helped himself out of that situation. Maybe I sounded harder than I meant it. I don't actually disagree with what you all are saying, I mean I think the OP even understands how this has all happened...her screen name is "I broke us".

Jorge -

I do not disagree with any of what you just said at all. And, you are right, my protectiveness kicked in.

It's not that I feel I want to justify any of her behaviors, and it's not that I don't recognize why the man might want a fresh start. Two people being married and not being able to kiss...that is not a marriage that any of us hope for. Certainly they likely both want more out of life than that.

I felt protective because we are still talking to a BS in this situation. I know she did a lot of fucked up things, but his cheating is hurting her just like it would any other BS. He is stringing her along with telling her he loves her so that she stays in the background while he figures out if it's going to work or not. I just wanted to take the focus off of the many posts about the man's job situation and put the emphasis back on empowering her to do what I would tell any BS to do. And that is not to accept cheating. Her only real chance of even possibly saving this marriage is to do the same thing we would tell any new BS - break up the affair, put reality into play.

Will it work? I don't know. I certainly understand why the chances are slim. But, I think letting him continue to be on the fence and just live out this affair is really the wrong thing. This site is about getting out of infidelity and she absolutely needs to do that.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:17 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]

That aside, it's clear what he is doing is extremely painful to the OP. However, we know that the BH has hung on for years in the wake of almost unimaginable humiliation and emasculation, and now we see the OP attempting to do the same. Who is to say what is right.

Oh and I don't disregard what you are saying here either. I get that sometimes things are just so FUBAR that just about any outcome can be understandable.

But, right? No. I don't think it's right. I honestly just feel (and this has been a hard won lesson obviously for me) that cheating is never the answer. It's not the right answer in any situation, and that does make it wrong. Being black and white is not a bad thing to be, I have also learned that the hard way as well.

I don't think you can have an open marriage in this situation. I get he's not lying about it, but honestly that's just putting lipstick on a pig. An open marriage is one that both parties trust each other explicably, there are rules, it's in agreement with both parties and for both parties. At this point, what he is doing is just as abusive as if she didn't know about it and found out.

Hikingout the fact is she has not given us enough information about what went on between her and the coworkers, and the fallout that ensued, for us to make any definitive guesses on what his state of mind may have been back then and today. All we know is she slept with several of his coworkers...that's it. No details.

Did she sleep with them separately? once each? twice each? host a gangbang? Were these affairs in quick succession or did they string on for several months or years? We don't know. And yes, those kind of details matter. Only she can enlighten us as to his reasons for staying at that job. She has not done so.

I was only asking her for that information. I absolutely agree that what he is doing is wrong, and any moral high ground he may have had over her once is long gone.

[This message edited by LivingWithPain at 5:50 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]

Hi livinginpain- none of my responses or posts were in response to yours. I agree with you though we don’t have all the info. In fact I will have to go back to read what you wrote because I must have agreed with it as I don’t remember. But getting more info is always helpful.

The only thing I don’t agree with is it doesn’t matter in terms as to why he is cheating now. I Just don’t think any reason is a good reason and that you should stop one relationship before starting another but I doubt that we disagree on that.

Okay I reread it.

I don’t have problems with 2 by 4s. What you said was correct. In my opinion.

The only reason I spoke up is because there were a slew of them all concentrating on the same thing. I just thought the focus was getting very much surrounding that and not enough about what she needs to do about it.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:21 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]

I get it, Hikingout. You’re right, OP needs the support.

There are a lot of unfair things a BS who wants to reconcile or (even to just heal for himself)has to do - and one of those things might have had to be work somewhere else for his own sanity. I feel his decision to continue to work there is his decision and you are blaming her for that too. Yes, it's fucked up that he would have to find a different job, but honestly it's hard to believe that someone would continue willingly to work in an environment 6.5 years later with the other AP's. There should have been a decision on his part to make a change to that. Surely in 6+ years he could have found a solution for that. I am not saying it's fair, but it's reality.

Some jobs cannot be duplicated. To find a new job

that is equal in all ways to the old job cannot

always be done.

Giving up a $100,000 salary for a $50,000. A

Platinum HI for a crappy HMO. Four week vacations

for two. Lose out on a great pension and instead

of retiring with a great 35 year pension. Having

to work until he is past 65 and settle for a 20

year pension. A lot for a BH to lose because he

married poorly.

oldtruck,

I don't disagree with you. My point really was that she already knew the workplace was a problem and while relevant, we had about 5 or 6 posts out of maybe a dozen (I didn't count) that mostly just focused on reinforcing that point. I just made the job change as a counterpoint to get people to focus on supporting the OP in what she should do in the situation. Her screen name is Ibrokeus, she knows what got them where they are.

But to that specific point - I will also just say that it depends on what you value and how willing you are to move or make other changes to preserve your mental health/wellbeing/happiness. I am currently encouraging my H to make a very similar move job-wise to lessen his stress and improve his quality of life. (That move does not have anything to do with me or my actions) We have both always made really good money, but we've decided there are more important things so as long as we can still live in a reasonable way.

I am a wayward, and I know the way that came to be is I mismanaged my life and didn't take responsibility for my happiness or healing. I pushed down what I wanted because of expectations I put on myself. Instead of fixing it, I did things that demeaned me and disregarded my own integrity. I could have chosen and managed things much differently, and that is all on me.

There is much of this story that smacks of that with her H. We all understand he was traumatized, he was put in a very bad situation because of what she inflicted on him. And, sadly he didn't find a good path to healing. That doesn't make him a bad person, it makes him human. But, he didn't move towards any decisions to help himself heal and so he is now cheating to cope with his unhappiness. He has some culpability in choosing that instead of any other moves he could have made to get to true happiness. He could have divorced. He maybe could have moved and gotten a similar paying job. I am not blaming him for not knowing how to deal with his trauma, but I am pointing out that he likely didn't do that and cheating is not the cure for that. It's not going to lead him to a higher happiness. It's going to bring a lot more pain and despair to him.

If she hadn't cheated on him 6 years ago, we would have been greeting her differently over in Just Found Out. So, all I was trying to do was give her support on what she should do now rather than why it's understandable that he would do this. Especially since I get the sense that she knows why and is hesitant to stop it because of what she did.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:38 AM, July 18th (Thursday)]

Hikingout I agree with you on about 90% of what you are saying. Some things that should have happened after her affairs did not happen. Her husband, for whatever reason, was unable or unwilling to remove himself from that work environment, and all I wanted to know is why. Those OMs could have been fired for all we know. The point is...we don't know. It is the details that make the difference.

Did he attend any kind of counseling?

Was the OP also working at this place of employment when the affairs occurred?

These details do make a difference in helping her to suss out his present state of mind. Because what I see him doing smacks of pure, cold-hearted revenge. And what makes his actions even more reprehensible is that he is using his old girlfriend to do this. She may not know he is using her to get back at his wife.

I wish OP would come back and fill in the blanks.

Me too, Living with Pain. Part of my speaking up was in hopes she might have stuck around. I worry of her state of mind. Ibrokeus, I hope you are still here and will still feel comfortable to post.

I'm in no way negating or minimizing the wrongness of what her husband is doing. Eye for an eye never works, especially in an adultery situation.

Maybe there is a component of wanting to re-build his sense of self esteem and masculinity. Maybe he has honest feelings towards the OW. None of those, however, are acceptable excuses for cheating.

I'm beginning to think, as other have said, that he most likely refused to divorce the OP out of fear of losing access to his kids and loss of assets.

I re-read the initial post. The OP had multiple affairs with her husband’s co-workers. It caused the BH a giant amount of pain and rage. He withdrew into himself. He did not divorce the OP, but there has been no physical affection between the two of them for years. Not even kissing. I’m going to assume this means they’ve not had sex with each other for years. They live more or less as roommates who happen to be sort of family and give one another certain types of family-related emotional support and comfort, but no husband/wife sexual/romantic affection.

We don’t know if either of them has had sex with others. The OP said something odd and puzzling:

I genuinely have no issues with him fucking another woman, anymore than he had issues with me fucking other men.

I’m still puzzled by this. Do they have an open marriage?

Per the OP, both of them were more or less okay with this state of things, but then along came the BH’s long lost first love. He has kindled a sexual and romantic love affair with her. OP understands why he is drawn to this. He has been starved of feeling like a desired man since his DDay many years ago. It’s like a drink of water to a man lost in the desert.

The conundrum is that what seemed at first to be a short-term, finite fling with the long lost first love has now become an open-ended relationship that could possibly morph into a serious, committed, monogamous, long-term relationship that may cause the BH to leave the OP. BH has told her that if the long lost first love offers this, he will probably go for it. The OP feels in limbo and wonders what to do. Among other things, she wonders how long she should wait. I gather that the OP would be okay if the BH had a temporary relationship with this other woman, but then ended it and resumed his “loving roommates” relationship with the OP.

First, I want to apologize to IBrokeUs for the harshness of my earlier posts. The nature of these forums is that we sometimes read a post and respond in a snap, without taking time to think through what we are saying. The facts in the OP are strong facts and, as a BH, I was guilty of responding emotionally, based on my personal emotions, rather than in a manner intended to be helpful to the OP.

Second, the undertone to this post is a deep well of love in both directions, possibly informed by a couple who have some spiritual bonds as well, maybe mutual survivors of something. Most BH’s would not reconcile from the original facts, and most wives, even WW’s, would not continue to hang on in a marriage where the husband is openly engaging in a full-on love affair with another woman.

So my answer is going to be based on the notion that there is a deeper level to this couple’s love, a tie that binds.

But the answer to the question is simple. I think the answer to the question is that you stay in the marriage until you don’t want to stay any more. We often warn betrayed spouses here about “Hopium”, but this case is highly unusual. I don’t think IBrokeUs is staying out of “Hopium”. I think she is staying because even though her BH/WH is a shattered man, she loves the fragments and, for now, wants to hang on to as many of them as she can.